Topic: Class Warfare in America
msharmony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 01:53 PM
I think people often confuse 'facing reality' with having a 'victim mentality'


a victim mentality says 'because its this way I cant succeed'


facing reality says ' THIS IS HOW IT IS, so THIS IS WHAT I MUST do,, (even if its different than what others have to do) to achieve'


but even that slight philosophy has to be learned from SOMEONE and it doesnt usually come from thin air or create itself in the midst of generations where there were no 'realistic' options in their lives,,,,

Bestinshow's photo
Mon 01/17/11 02:37 PM






Yes, we have classes. And yes, being born into a poorer family definately has disadvantages in housing, education, employment, opportunity, etc etc etc

To comment on education, just because we have free public education, it doesn't mean that it is equal! Anyone that wants to see the stark difference between public schools should come to Michigan and spend a day in Detroit Public Schools and a day in Rochester public schools. And, take a hard look around, and see really where the money for public education comes from.


That is the mentality that creates the situation we are in.

Oh look at them... because their school is green and ours in red we can't do as well as them.


Classic right wing response allways blame the victim. Yes its their fault they were born poor and rich kids have the same chance of being poor as a poor kid. ...........Ridiculous...


Why have a victim mentality?? I am poor and my daughter got a 40000 dollar scholarship to Allbright In PA which is an excellent school......she was invited by many other colleges like Penn State and Seton Hall as well. She attended public schools all her life. She graduated from a public school in the State of Delaware. Many kids propel themselves beyond the public school system every year. The ones that choose not to, hold on to that victim mentality because you people putting it into their heads....we never told her she couldn't ....we always told her she can and will succeed.......and even though I do not have a penny to my name......guess what....she is.....
congratulations on your daughter but guesse were that scholarship money came from?

Yeah it came from donations to the college fund she received from a wealthier class that rewards those that don't give into the victim mentality mindset and achieve despite their surrounding and if she can do it so can others.....it came from hard work....it came from determination.....and she keeps it because of those same things......and she will succeed because she has a successfuly attitude and the backbone to do so
I would suspect it came from federal grants and government backed student loans. But not realy looking for an argument

Seakolony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 02:41 PM


I think people often confuse 'facing reality' with having a 'victim mentality'


a victim mentality says 'because its this way I cant succeed'


facing reality says ' THIS IS HOW IT IS, so THIS IS WHAT I MUST do,, (even if its different than what others have to do) to achieve'


but even that slight philosophy has to be learned from SOMEONE and it doesnt usually come from thin air or create itself in the midst of generations where there were no 'realistic' options in their lives,,,,

Facing a reality of not being able to achieve because of your surrounding and this person chose to give in and not achieve is a victim mentality......just because you are raised in an inner city...doesn't mean you cannot hit the books and the libraries.......just because your mom or dad or neighbor is hooked on drugs doesn't mean you have to follow. In their foot steps......that is what so many charities are all about head start......boys and girls club......mentor leadership roles......its all about helping those that actually want to excel succeed.....no one has to accept reality....everyone can choose to succeed....it possible and available....all they have to do is try.......now accepting the reality of being special or mental illness or a less mental acuity is quite different for sure......but there are many that choose to give in and give up instead of fight and try

mightymoe's photo
Mon 01/17/11 02:42 PM







Yes, we have classes. And yes, being born into a poorer family definately has disadvantages in housing, education, employment, opportunity, etc etc etc

To comment on education, just because we have free public education, it doesn't mean that it is equal! Anyone that wants to see the stark difference between public schools should come to Michigan and spend a day in Detroit Public Schools and a day in Rochester public schools. And, take a hard look around, and see really where the money for public education comes from.


That is the mentality that creates the situation we are in.

Oh look at them... because their school is green and ours in red we can't do as well as them.


Classic right wing response allways blame the victim. Yes its their fault they were born poor and rich kids have the same chance of being poor as a poor kid. ...........Ridiculous...


Why have a victim mentality?? I am poor and my daughter got a 40000 dollar scholarship to Allbright In PA which is an excellent school......she was invited by many other colleges like Penn State and Seton Hall as well. She attended public schools all her life. She graduated from a public school in the State of Delaware. Many kids propel themselves beyond the public school system every year. The ones that choose not to, hold on to that victim mentality because you people putting it into their heads....we never told her she couldn't ....we always told her she can and will succeed.......and even though I do not have a penny to my name......guess what....she is.....
congratulations on your daughter but guesse were that scholarship money came from?

Yeah it came from donations to the college fund she received from a wealthier class that rewards those that don't give into the victim mentality mindset and achieve despite their surrounding and if she can do it so can others.....it came from hard work....it came from determination.....and she keeps it because of those same things......and she will succeed because she has a successfuly attitude and the backbone to do so
I would suspect it came from federal grants and government backed student loans. But not realy looking for an argument


maybe not, i'm getting a student loan, with a grant.. a scholarship does not have to be repaid, and there are quite a few programs like
she was saying designed to help people such as her daughter.

msharmony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 03:02 PM
Edited by msharmony on Mon 01/17/11 03:04 PM



I think people often confuse 'facing reality' with having a 'victim mentality'


a victim mentality says 'because its this way I cant succeed'


facing reality says ' THIS IS HOW IT IS, so THIS IS WHAT I MUST do,, (even if its different than what others have to do) to achieve'


but even that slight philosophy has to be learned from SOMEONE and it doesnt usually come from thin air or create itself in the midst of generations where there were no 'realistic' options in their lives,,,,

Facing a reality of not being able to achieve because of your surrounding and this person chose to give in and not achieve is a victim mentality......just because you are raised in an inner city...doesn't mean you cannot hit the books and the libraries.......just because your mom or dad or neighbor is hooked on drugs doesn't mean you have to follow. In their foot steps......that is what so many charities are all about head start......boys and girls club......mentor leadership roles......its all about helping those that actually want to excel succeed.....no one has to accept reality....everyone can choose to succeed....it possible and available....all they have to do is try.......now accepting the reality of being special or mental illness or a less mental acuity is quite different for sure......but there are many that choose to give in and give up instead of fight and try




I Was raised to face reality so that I Can make the best REALISTIC choices


for example, the REALITY is very few people make it in MUSIC without knowing others first

so the best REALISTIC choice for me is to seek 'success' in those areas where I have resources to achieve it and try to SEEK out the resources I would need to have a real chance at success in music, but never make MUSIC my main path because of the real odds against being one of the 'successful' ones

it doesnt mean giving up, to give oneself several options and to PRIORITIZE them based upon the facts one is given

but even with all that, I am able to do so because someone TAUGHT Me about reality


children are blank slates who need to be taught and someone has to have had the knowledge or experience to do so, which is why impoverished areas have odds stacked so high against their children, because how can they teach them what they dont know?


Seakolony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 03:27 PM







Yes, we have classes. And yes, being born into a poorer family definately has disadvantages in housing, education, employment, opportunity, etc etc etc

To comment on education, just because we have free public education, it doesn't mean that it is equal! Anyone that wants to see the stark difference between public schools should come to Michigan and spend a day in Detroit Public Schools and a day in Rochester public schools. And, take a hard look around, and see really where the money for public education comes from.


That is the mentality that creates the situation we are in.

Oh look at them... because their school is green and ours in red we can't do as well as them.


Classic right wing response allways blame the victim. Yes its their fault they were born poor and rich kids have the same chance of being poor as a poor kid. ...........Ridiculous...


Why have a victim mentality?? I am poor and my daughter got a 40000 dollar scholarship to Allbright In PA which is an excellent school......she was invited by many other colleges like Penn State and Seton Hall as well. She attended public schools all her life. She graduated from a public school in the State of Delaware. Many kids propel themselves beyond the public school system every year. The ones that choose not to, hold on to that victim mentality because you people putting it into their heads....we never told her she couldn't ....we always told her she can and will succeed.......and even though I do not have a penny to my name......guess what....she is.....
congratulations on your daughter but guesse were that scholarship money came from?

Yeah it came from donations to the college fund she received from a wealthier class that rewards those that don't give into the victim mentality mindset and achieve despite their surrounding and if she can do it so can others.....it came from hard work....it came from determination.....and she keeps it because of those same things......and she will succeed because she has a successfuly attitude and the backbone to do so
I would suspect it came from federal grants and government backed student loans. But not realy looking for an argument

Actually none of it is governemental grants it is a college funded scholarship not a grant.......the remainder is being covered by college loans but the 40000 is an academically earned scholarship...no arguing a fact

Seakolony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 04:06 PM




I think people often confuse 'facing reality' with having a 'victim mentality'


a victim mentality says 'because its this way I cant succeed'


facing reality says ' THIS IS HOW IT IS, so THIS IS WHAT I MUST do,, (even if its different than what others have to do) to achieve'


but even that slight philosophy has to be learned from SOMEONE and it doesnt usually come from thin air or create itself in the midst of generations where there were no 'realistic' options in their lives,,,,

Facing a reality of not being able to achieve because of your surrounding and this person chose to give in and not achieve is a victim mentality......just because you are raised in an inner city...doesn't mean you cannot hit the books and the libraries.......just because your mom or dad or neighbor is hooked on drugs doesn't mean you have to follow. In their foot steps......that is what so many charities are all about head start......boys and girls club......mentor leadership roles......its all about helping those that actually want to excel succeed.....no one has to accept reality....everyone can choose to succeed....it possible and available....all they have to do is try.......now accepting the reality of being special or mental illness or a less mental acuity is quite different for sure......but there are many that choose to give in and give up instead of fight and try




I Was raised to face reality so that I Can make the best REALISTIC choices


for example, the REALITY is very few people make it in MUSIC without knowing others first

so the best REALISTIC choice for me is to seek 'success' in those areas where I have resources to achieve it and try to SEEK out the resources I would need to have a real chance at success in music, but never make MUSIC my main path because of the real odds against being one of the 'successful' ones

it doesnt mean giving up, to give oneself several options and to PRIORITIZE them based upon the facts one is given

but even with all that, I am able to do so because someone TAUGHT Me about reality


children are blank slates who need to be taught and someone has to have had the knowledge or experience to do so, which is why impoverished areas have odds stacked so high against their children, because how can they teach them what they dont know?



Actually you were raised to succeed within your talent base.......you were not allowed to subjugate yourself to your atmosphere and a victim mentality assuming of course you were raised in the type atmosphere previously described.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......

msharmony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 04:34 PM
Edited by msharmony on Mon 01/17/11 04:34 PM
.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

Seakolony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 06:26 PM

.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

And that is a victim mentality instilled repetitively over and over in poverty keeping it going......


msharmony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 07:09 PM


.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

And that is a victim mentality instilled repetitively over and over in poverty keeping it going......





people cant teach what they dont know,,,

mightymoe's photo
Mon 01/17/11 07:28 PM

.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?

msharmony's photo
Mon 01/17/11 11:44 PM


.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,

mightymoe's photo
Tue 01/18/11 12:00 AM



.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,
sorry, but i don't see color being an excuse anymore... that is been played out for too long... EVERYONE has the same chance to succeed, no matter the color. this poor me i'm a poor(insert color or race here) is just an excuse just to get a bigger piece of the pie. maybe 20-30 years ago i would agree with you, but nowadays i cannot. All anyone has to do is try in school, and they will graduate. it is not that hard.

msharmony's photo
Tue 01/18/11 12:43 AM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 01/18/11 12:49 AM




.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,
sorry, but i don't see color being an excuse anymore... that is been played out for too long... EVERYONE has the same chance to succeed, no matter the color. this poor me i'm a poor(insert color or race here) is just an excuse just to get a bigger piece of the pie. maybe 20-30 years ago i would agree with you, but nowadays i cannot. All anyone has to do is try in school, and they will graduate. it is not that hard.



the debate is not really about difficulty or ease, its more about EQUALITY,,,which there still isnt

if you believe race is not a factor, Id be curious to know exactly when it supposedly STOPPED ,,being that history clearly records that it WAS a factor , a legally justified factor, up until forty or so years ago,,,,


and how the numbers show that black people in america have on average one TWENTIETH the wealth of white people

if networking is as big a part of getting ahead as I believe it is, than RACE would certainly continue to have an affect stemming from past legal segregation and continued social segregation

mightymoe's photo
Tue 01/18/11 01:50 AM





.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,
sorry, but i don't see color being an excuse anymore... that is been played out for too long... EVERYONE has the same chance to succeed, no matter the color. this poor me i'm a poor(insert color or race here) is just an excuse just to get a bigger piece of the pie. maybe 20-30 years ago i would agree with you, but nowadays i cannot. All anyone has to do is try in school, and they will graduate. it is not that hard.



the debate is not really about difficulty or ease, its more about EQUALITY,,,which there still isnt

if you believe race is not a factor, Id be curious to know exactly when it supposedly STOPPED ,,being that history clearly records that it WAS a factor , a legally justified factor, up until forty or so years ago,,,,


and how the numbers show that black people in america have on average one TWENTIETH the wealth of white people

if networking is as big a part of getting ahead as I believe it is, than RACE would certainly continue to have an affect stemming from past legal segregation and continued social segregation


so what is the mentality? white folks are holding the black folks down? black people can't open there own business? what is it? what is so unequal? the white rich folks should just hand over their money? college? sounds like another thing to get something for free... unless your in politics, you have to work to get rich, no one is going to hand anyone anything, like the dems want to do. equality is not an issue, hard work ethics are tho.

msharmony's photo
Tue 01/18/11 03:22 AM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 01/18/11 03:25 AM






.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,
sorry, but i don't see color being an excuse anymore... that is been played out for too long... EVERYONE has the same chance to succeed, no matter the color. this poor me i'm a poor(insert color or race here) is just an excuse just to get a bigger piece of the pie. maybe 20-30 years ago i would agree with you, but nowadays i cannot. All anyone has to do is try in school, and they will graduate. it is not that hard.



the debate is not really about difficulty or ease, its more about EQUALITY,,,which there still isnt

if you believe race is not a factor, Id be curious to know exactly when it supposedly STOPPED ,,being that history clearly records that it WAS a factor , a legally justified factor, up until forty or so years ago,,,,


and how the numbers show that black people in america have on average one TWENTIETH the wealth of white people

if networking is as big a part of getting ahead as I believe it is, than RACE would certainly continue to have an affect stemming from past legal segregation and continued social segregation


so what is the mentality? white folks are holding the black folks down? black people can't open there own business? what is it? what is so unequal? the white rich folks should just hand over their money? college? sounds like another thing to get something for free... unless your in politics, you have to work to get rich, no one is going to hand anyone anything, like the dems want to do. equality is not an issue, hard work ethics are tho.



no, the mentality is not about anything ABSOLUTE, the mentality is about learning what the REALITY is and finding ways to be the 'exception' when the odds are stacked against you

my response is in regards to the sentiment that race is no longer a factor in our society , it is as major a player as gender or disability or social status

what is UNEQUAL is access to RESOURCES, which is based largely in access to the right NETWORKS which have not been EQUALLY accessible to all and continue, in effect, to not be EQUALLY accessible

as was mentioned before, rich families dont have nearly the chance of being poor that poor families have of STAYING poor, and poverty has alot of political and social HISTORY behind it besides the myth of 'hard work'

merit is but ONE aspect of the equation, social judgment is another part , as is access to the right resources and networks,

it is a globally competitive world, and hard work is nowhere near as significant as SMART work, and that SMART work has to be learned , taught, or passed down from those who have EXPERIENCED it or been taught themself from those who experience it

Chazster's photo
Tue 01/18/11 03:44 AM
This is BS. My grandparents were poor. Had a farm and grew some of their own food. Raised some pigs to eat. My grandfather did manual labor for a dock and when he was in the war my grandmother worked in a department store.

Now my father makes over 100k as an engineer and his brother owns a software company. Doesn't matter if you start poor you can change your situation.

msharmony's photo
Tue 01/18/11 03:53 AM
Edited by msharmony on Tue 01/18/11 03:55 AM

This is BS. My grandparents were poor. Had a farm and grew some of their own food. Raised some pigs to eat. My grandfather did manual labor for a dock and when he was in the war my grandmother worked in a department store.

Now my father makes over 100k as an engineer and his brother owns a software company. Doesn't matter if you start poor you can change your situation.




noone has denied the POSSIBILITY of changing from poor to something else,, we are only AKNOWLEDGING the reality of how CLASS changes the ODDS of doing so, how networks change the odds of doing so, how resources change the odds of doing so, how merely 'working hard' is not what changes a situation, and how all these things together have a great IMPACT upon ones chances to do so


and likewise, how somehow equating the lack of someones success with merely how 'hard they work' is a misnomer which leads to the equally dishonest assessment that anyone in poverty is in such a situation because they arent working 'hard' enough

Chazster's photo
Tue 01/18/11 04:01 AM
It's not about working hard it's about gaining desirable assets. A cashier at Walmart may work harder than an engineer physically. It's the engineers knowledge that makes them desirable and earns them money. In Louisiana you have no reason not to go to college for free. Just have a C average and make the state average on the ACT and boom free college. This has no racial or any other class divisions. Even if you don't get this it's cheap as hell to go to college here. Even LSU is only like 5k a year.

Seakolony's photo
Tue 01/18/11 04:11 AM



.......there are those that take the I won't succeed because where I am raised because I am poor mentality.....and there are those that propel their talents and try hard just a reality in itself......and another reality is that people do take a victim mentality because I am this color....because my family is poor and use it as an excuse not to even try......


I wont succeed , period, is a victim mentality. I dont have the same ODDS at succeeding BECAUSE is a realistic mentality.



and either mentality is still a LEARNED mentality that children dont come in the world with, they have to be taught by someone so that they might someday teach someone else


the problem with the circle of poverty is that too often that mentality was never there to be taught because it was once not a reality and then because it was never witnessed or taught or, just as importantly, reinforced

i'm not sure whos fault your saying it is... are you saying that some public schools get more money than others?



I dont get into the 'blame' game. I am more into looking at cause and affect and RESPONSIBILITY

I am saying that opportunities are not EQUALLY ACCESSED, or EQUALLY AVAILABLE

some things like networking , social status, even race and gender, play a large part in the ODDS of coming across or KNOWING about how to access those opportunities

the idea of blaming the victim is unacceptable to me, but so is the idea of being a martyr,,,the BALANCE for me is accepting that CIRCUMSTANCE and ENVIRONMENT are unequal enough for OPPORTUNITY to also become unequal,,,but not UNATTAINABLE

facing that inequality exists is not the same as playing victim

and holding people "RESPONSIBLE' to ideals that they have either not been taught or had an opportunity to EXPERIENCE for themself is shifting all RESPONSIBILITY in one direction and on ONE persons shoulders instead of looking at the cause and affect and doing something about it,,,

Opportunities are equally available.........and its their own faults if the don't try to equally access them through whatever means necessary.......and they don't try because they are poor and they are being kept there........that is all a victim mentality.......that exact thought process......if didn't have the Jesse Jacksons of this world enabling these poor neighborhood with this thought process......then they wouldn't be having this thought process......then they would try harder and do better getting out of the poverty level