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| Topic: Do you think that.... | |
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Harmony wrote: there are all types of preferences and fetishes adults have sexually, regardless of sexual orientation, but we cannot litigate sexual preferences when people consent,,,
But yet that is exactly what is happening. Marriage between to consenting adults of age and mental consent should be allowed. Period and those who say not are over stepping boundaries into others lives that they wouldn't allow to happen to them. |
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Harmony wrote: there are all types of preferences and fetishes adults have sexually, regardless of sexual orientation, but we cannot litigate sexual preferences when people consent,,, But yet that is exactly what is happening. Marriage between to consenting adults of age and mental consent should be allowed. Period and those who say not are over stepping boundaries into others lives that they wouldn't allow to happen to them. Noone is attempting to litigate sexual preferences, only marriage. And there goes your discriminatory nature again. Why do you get to choose age and mental capacity? If you cite current laws, so will I... If you cite "to protect the people", so will I... If you say because it's "sick", so will I... If you say "gender and rolls", so will I... |
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Harmony wrote: there are all types of preferences and fetishes adults have sexually, regardless of sexual orientation, but we cannot litigate sexual preferences when people consent,,, But yet that is exactly what is happening. Marriage between to consenting adults of age and mental consent should be allowed. Period and those who say not are over stepping boundaries into others lives that they wouldn't allow to happen to them. marriage is not litigating sex, marriage is only litigating which sex receives federal promotion,,, |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Sun 01/09/11 04:04 PM
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creative:
I do find it rather ironic that some act as if being biased for equal affordances of rights/priveleges to all people is somehow wrong. Pan: So you are for incestuous and mentally challenged marriage now? You did say "all people"... Or will you show your hypocrisy by refuting your above claim? 
1. Being biased for equal affordances of right/priveleges to all people does not require automatically granting priveleges to all. It only requires that sufficient reason be given to justify not granting such priveleges, and that when any attempt to deny is unjustified, that those priveleges be granted. 2. One can be biased for equal affordances of rights/priveleges to all members of society while simultaneously finding and/or holding good reason to deny those priveleges to people whom those reasons do apply. 3. The claim of mine that you've quoted here need not be refuted. Neither does it contradict my previous claims, nor does it require that I support incestuous or mentally challenged marriage. 4. As a direct result of the first three points, it is quite clear to me that you do not understand what I've written. You're failing to mentally apprehend/grasp the simplicity of the thoughts being put forth here. I suspect it is a result of apperception tainting the current experience. 5. Up to this point, the considerations I've offered pale in comparison to the depth of thought penetration that is required for a more complex understanding to be had. I am growing less and less confident that such a thing is attainable. Just as a moth flies into the flame, cognitive dissonance can render one's understanding hostage to the delightful feverish imaginings eminating from an overconfident ego. |
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Ms:
that is not the argument, as HIV is not the only risk of anal sex, a completely UNNECESSARY activity(unlike heterosexual sex) Are you attempting to claim that unnecessary risks constitute sufficient ground to justify dening the privelege of marriage? of course HIV will be there (at this point) with or without homosexual activity, but so what
So, it is not reasonable to deny the privelege of marriage to gays on account that some have AIDS and some spread hiv through unprotected sex. not promoting incest does not STOP incest either, but it still has nothing to do with the importance of refusing to do so
The reasons for which do not apply to gays. |
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I've been debating these types of issues since I was 4 years old.
Which offers no reason whatsoever to believe that the issue is being understood. Your arguments will stand or fall on their own merit, Pan. So far, it doesn't look good. |
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Ms.
my point is how much RISKIER it is to have anal sex,,,,and how such a practice need not be promoted or encouraged by the government. creative: Exactly how does the above justify discriminating against gays in manner that we all agree is being done, but disagree on whether or not it is a justified discrimination? Ms: discriminating against gays would be making gay relations illegal, which I would also oppose That would be one kind of discrimination. It is not the one that is actually happening though. what I am debating is that gay lifestyles need not be discriminated or promoted, but left as they are
Then, by this you should support gay marriage. Marriage is a privilege being denied to gay couples based upon the discriminatory language in marriage laws. Gays are being discriminated against. Knowing that, and leaving things as they are is supporting the discrimination at hand. |
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we go towards a community where the common answer for everything in the community will be 'I dont care, it doesnt affect me', and that is what scares me most
What should scare you the most is ANYONE being denied the same equal protection and benefit of the law, because if someone is being denied those rights, your rights are in danger. That's why the issue of same-sex marriage is so important and difficult for people to consider, and why the courts are involved. So far there is literally nothing to indicate that same sex marriage could be harmful to poeple outside the couple being married. who is not afforded equal protection...siblings? minors?,,,,there are requirements for marriage, this doesnt equate to an equal rights issue for me What an odd question to ask. It seems you're having a conversation with yourself. The side-bar of minors and incest has been introduced by you in the middle of a discussion about same-sex marriage. I was not, nor do I want to discuss those side-bar issues however, if someone can show why marriage is denied people in other cases in a way that equates to same-sex marriage, I may respond. Until then, I am discussing same-sex marriage. |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sun 01/09/11 05:11 PM
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Unprotected anal sex carries more risk than unprotected vaginal sex which carries more risk than unprotected oral sex. .... to think otherwise is to be a bit naive all behaviors above are risky , but some are DEFINITELY riskier than others And which those behaviors does NOT occur between heterosexuals? but homosexuals DONT have heterosexual relations,, unless they are bisexual there are all types of preferences and fetishes adults have sexually, regardless of sexual orientation, but we cannot litigate sexual preferences when people consent,,, its not about condemning certain behavior so much as it is choosing behaviors to PROMOTE,,,heterosexuals might have homosexual type sex but a significant FACTOR in their being labeled HETERO is that they are MOSTLY not doing such things, they are MOSTLY attracted to heterosexual behavior what we CAN do is choose to promote certain preferences and not others,,,,,promoting heterosexual relations has a legitimate and substantial purpose,,,,,there is no need to promote any and all other kinds of sexual relations I have to quote this part again heterosexuals might have homosexual type sex but a significant FACTOR in their being labeled HETERO is that they are MOSTLY not doing such things, they are MOSTLY attracted to heterosexual behavior
"homosexual type sex" I'm not sure what that is but to be honest I don't promote any particular type of sex rather, I promote love, caring, and long-term relationship. In most cases that kind of love, caring, and tenderness leads to physical intimacy. How and when or even IF that occurs is none of my business - why do you think it is yours? You think allowing same-sex marriage is promoting certain sexual behavior - but what does it matter what the sex is all about IF what is being promoted is a long-term, monogamous, family and community oriented marriage arrangement? Isn't that what the religious sector is trying to protect - the long-term, monogamous, family and community oriented marriage arrangement? Instead you would make it about how the couple enacts thier most intimate moments. How dare you and how hypocritical to say one thing and mean another. Perhaps I misunderstand - feel free to make corrections to your logical errors so that I might gain more understanding. |
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You all really do not get what I have always said.. its a devide and conquer subject and we are the butt end of it..haha.. sorry could not resist 
If you look at everything as a hole in our society we are led just where they want us.. its way more than homosexual thing.. just llok around at these boards and its an attack on all of us not in real power.. just look outside the box.. Shalom..Miles I'm sorry Miles, I don't understand what you are saying. (except for the pun - I got that, haha) I'm in on this thing, I live it every day, I read about it from all sides, every angle every day. I lobby my representitives, I have even written letters to the Supreme Court Justices (never answered of course). I have been aware of this issue for 26 years and I have been ivolved for the last 12 years. That's a lot of sessions of Congress, more than a few Presidents, and a lot of media. Who exactly do you think is behind this move to divide society? I can tell you, THAT has NEVER been the goal of those I work with. Our mission is to become an equitable, responsible, accepted, and valued part of society. So where is the division idea coming from? The division comes from all the Press certain things get. The sexual nature of the country is to teach division and Hatred. Why do you think all of a sudden at the same time Homosexual issues come into focus that Sex offenders are all over the news also? Bait and switch. on one hand those who go against the homosexual lifestyle are Bigots and Haters.. This is an Attack on the morals of the history of the church. Then at the same time we have a Villian,.. The sex offender who our Govt. preachs legalized Hate. No more Hate than thier Red. nomatter what you think of them. They lie with stastics and use Hollywood for thier agenda parading around children trying to make them think thier is a Boogie man on every corner. You know when the last time a Govt. promoted legalized hate and told the people to spy on a certain people? It was Hitler. Exactly the same tactics as he was proposing a Supreme Race. Some people do not deserve to live.. Does that rederic sound familiar? With the religious people or the old school you might say religious movement at odds with the Homosexual and what happens? War a Lieing war that killed and is still killing thousands and blaming Religious zealots for our Attack. Many do not believe it but do you know why we could not get a Coalition to go to war with us against Irack this time like we did in Desert Storm? France got experts the ones who actually designed the world trade Center and the film on the pentegon and made a Documentary in 2002 and showed it on European Television that by thier experts showed we killed our own people. Now I know people will thin k i am crazy but I am stating facts of what happened. What did we do? We made fun of France.. Remember the French Fry Jokes. Remember Colin Powell going Before the United Nations saying they had absolute Proof from 2 expert chemists defectors. ABC did a special on these 2 defectors years later and they had to run for thier lives and thier families did to because of this lie. Colin Powell did not like what they had to say that they knew of no chemicals being produced for warfare so he made it up. Do you see him being held accountable? Do you know that President Bushs father who is on the board of the Federal Reserve who is the agency that loans money to banks at 1 dollar for 10? What does that mean? that when you see something is Federally insured that is saying when the banks loan money they are allowed to loan on Paper 10x the amount they actually have on hand. Thats why they are always worried about a run on the banks. What the heck does all this have to do with the subject matter? Its like i said we can not see the trees for the Forest. When congress handed out 787+ billion to the banks to bail them out they were not bailing out the banks. The banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve borrows its money from many countries that are communists and Arab. Some of the biggestest investors are 12 of the Richests families in America. Now very little was ever said but when this Bail out was going on a The New York Times reporter did some checking on the federal reserves books. What did he find out? Thier was 2 Trillion dollars unaccounted for. So he filed for the books under the freedom of Information act. They refused. So he Filed in The Federal Courts for them and won. The Federal court served a supena to the Federal Reserve. Thier answer? Excutive Privilage.. No way was anyone seeing thier books who really is who we gave all the bailout money to that was insuring the banks against Bad Loans. Remember when Bush and cheney was to turn over documents to the senate Means committee. What did they say? Exucutive privelege and they got by with it but President Clinton gets a BJ by an intern and they want to impeach him when the country was in the best shape it had been in for decades. The big 3 auto manufactures wanted 25 Billion in loans to keep 2 million families at work. &87 Billion was no problem for the rich but 25 for the working class was outrages. WE just saw it again in Dec. 700+ Billion for the rich or Millions of People will go without. We are fed by the news what they want. We argue on here about religious Bigots and Homosexuals and everything else and forget where all this Hatred comes from. Our Leadership.. The people follow what the top tells us. In the 90's Hollywood put out wilol and Grace made the Gays Cool and those who apposed Bigots. A well thoughtout show. They feed us deception and we argue about stuff when behind the scenes they are getting ready for something BIG. You look at the History of Germany before they broke out into WW@ and then look at us and thier not much difference. The play is the same just with differnt actors and different words. Then we fight each other while they kick back and make us to where we will not beable to have a Voice because we will not have the money to fight them and without it they can make the laws say whatever they want them to say when they want to. If you have been petitioning Capital Hill then you should know this is true. No money no voice thats the Real world we live in. Our struggles for equality is a misdirection to take all our rights away . EVERYONes but The ELITE CLASS/.. Blessings. of Shalom and May Yahweh have Mercy on us ALL....Miles Miles, can you narrow the scope of all the material above to issurs regarding Homosexuality only? Or maybe you are just attempting to show why there is so much hatred and discrimination against homosexuals - could that be it? |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sun 01/09/11 06:02 PM
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I just wish one of 'em would justify their claim. It's only reasonable. Di makes a good point here as well. If one researches the actual reasons that some of these red herring examples are denied the privelege of marriage, it becomes obvious that those reasons do no apply to gay marriage. I've already offered the ones that I am aware of regarding mentally challenged people. And in several other threads I have offered other references and I was met with the same responces we get here, not trusting the sources, not believing the research, or why this research is considered but this opposing reasearch (by Cameron and the likes ) are not considered. Apparently there is not enough interest in trying to increase knowledge, there seems to be more interest in confirming one's bias. That is the danger religion poses to society; sometimes in order to keep it, individuals must close their mind to other sources of knowledge. RELIGIOUS!!! Red, it was you who acknowledged awhile back in the thread about "gay bashing" (suicides?), that there are health and psycological risks involved with being homosexual. I think I've provided ample proof of the bias of you, the study you posted (you claimed studies) and the APA. Fact is, I've lived with this issue for 32 years dealing with homosexuals, and 38 years dealing with interacial marriages. You have no grounds to say my opinions are based on religion. One of the biggest racists I've met was my maternal grandmother, I've been debating these types of issues since I was 4 years old. People like to claim that homosexuality is genetic, well then, why aren't all identical twins either homosexual or heterosexual? What do you have to say about the study I posted? (and no, I didn't link to Cameron till later) What percentage of your children are homosexual? Do you deny thefacts in the study? (you don't have to answer, but I do remember you revealed your facts earlier) About the study you posted - did you bother to look at the methods and tools used in the research? Have you bothered to look at how similiar they are to Camerons work - the only real difference between them is one used 10 (similar) references instead of 3? Have you looked into the the reports of the studies of the organization I had posted? Did you notice that the scientists admitted the limitation of their studies and also explained why it was necessary to work with those limitations? Did you compare the actual written reports of the three different authorships? I did all that 'your' two authors are not unknown to me, I have researched them in the past as well as a new search due to your post - but it was the same stuff I had looked at earlier last year. I didn't respond because you don't have a full understanding of the scientific community or their methodology nor of the tools available or peer review and thus you hold it with little regard. I've wasted far too much time in the past dealing with those issues with you and others who do not wish to educate themselves. So if you want to believe the research you find on the open web is always going to be valid - then you will do so. A lack of response by others when you post that kind of material does not constitute any kind of acquiescence to your superior reseach understanding or web browsing capability. I'm sure that won't deflate your ego though, psychologically you couldn't handle admitting that kind of truth to yourself. But it's ok PP, you are certainly not alone, in fact you are part of the majority - proof once again that the majority is not always right. |
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Sun 01/09/11 06:05 PM
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IOW... If the argument is that not promoting gay lifestyle will stop the transmission of HIV, it is wrong on all accounts. It is equally wrong to assume that only gays take risks in their sexual practices. We could hypothetically remove all gays from society, and AIDS would still spread as long as people with HIV were having unprotected sex. that is not the argument, as HIV is not the only risk of anal sex, a completely UNNECESSARY activity(unlike heterosexual sex) of course HIV will be there (at this point) with or without homosexual activity, but so what not promoting incest does not STOP incest either, but it still has nothing to do with the importance of refusing to do so,,, Well, you are certainly NOT going to STOP anyone from having sex that is to their liking. It seems to me the best thing you could do for those people that you think are harming themselves is do what Christians to best - pray for them and stop trying to direct their lives with laws that are discriminatory. |
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You all really do not get what I have always said.. its a devide and conquer subject and we are the butt end of it..haha.. sorry could not resist
If you look at everything as a hole in our society we are led just where they want us.. its way more than homosexual thing.. just llok around at these boards and its an attack on all of us not in real power.. just look outside the box.. Shalom..Miles I'm sorry Miles, I don't understand what you are saying. (except for the pun - I got that, haha) I'm in on this thing, I live it every day, I read about it from all sides, every angle every day. I lobby my representitives, I have even written letters to the Supreme Court Justices (never answered of course). I have been aware of this issue for 26 years and I have been ivolved for the last 12 years. That's a lot of sessions of Congress, more than a few Presidents, and a lot of media. Who exactly do you think is behind this move to divide society? I can tell you, THAT has NEVER been the goal of those I work with. Our mission is to become an equitable, responsible, accepted, and valued part of society. So where is the division idea coming from? The division comes from all the Press certain things get. The sexual nature of the country is to teach division and Hatred. Why do you think all of a sudden at the same time Homosexual issues come into focus that Sex offenders are all over the news also? Bait and switch. on one hand those who go against the homosexual lifestyle are Bigots and Haters.. This is an Attack on the morals of the history of the church. Then at the same time we have a Villian,.. The sex offender who our Govt. preachs legalized Hate. No more Hate than thier Red. nomatter what you think of them. They lie with stastics and use Hollywood for thier agenda parading around children trying to make them think thier is a Boogie man on every corner. You know when the last time a Govt. promoted legalized hate and told the people to spy on a certain people? It was Hitler. Exactly the same tactics as he was proposing a Supreme Race. Some people do not deserve to live.. Does that rederic sound familiar? With the religious people or the old school you might say religious movement at odds with the Homosexual and what happens? War a Lieing war that killed and is still killing thousands and blaming Religious zealots for our Attack. Many do not believe it but do you know why we could not get a Coalition to go to war with us against Irack this time like we did in Desert Storm? France got experts the ones who actually designed the world trade Center and the film on the pentegon and made a Documentary in 2002 and showed it on European Television that by thier experts showed we killed our own people. Now I know people will thin k i am crazy but I am stating facts of what happened. What did we do? We made fun of France.. Remember the French Fry Jokes. Remember Colin Powell going Before the United Nations saying they had absolute Proof from 2 expert chemists defectors. ABC did a special on these 2 defectors years later and they had to run for thier lives and thier families did to because of this lie. Colin Powell did not like what they had to say that they knew of no chemicals being produced for warfare so he made it up. Do you see him being held accountable? Do you know that President Bushs father who is on the board of the Federal Reserve who is the agency that loans money to banks at 1 dollar for 10? What does that mean? that when you see something is Federally insured that is saying when the banks loan money they are allowed to loan on Paper 10x the amount they actually have on hand. Thats why they are always worried about a run on the banks. What the heck does all this have to do with the subject matter? Its like i said we can not see the trees for the Forest. When congress handed out 787+ billion to the banks to bail them out they were not bailing out the banks. The banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve borrows its money from many countries that are communists and Arab. Some of the biggestest investors are 12 of the Richests families in America. Now very little was ever said but when this Bail out was going on a The New York Times reporter did some checking on the federal reserves books. What did he find out? Thier was 2 Trillion dollars unaccounted for. So he filed for the books under the freedom of Information act. They refused. So he Filed in The Federal Courts for them and won. The Federal court served a supena to the Federal Reserve. Thier answer? Excutive Privilage.. No way was anyone seeing thier books who really is who we gave all the bailout money to that was insuring the banks against Bad Loans. Remember when Bush and cheney was to turn over documents to the senate Means committee. What did they say? Exucutive privelege and they got by with it but President Clinton gets a BJ by an intern and they want to impeach him when the country was in the best shape it had been in for decades. The big 3 auto manufactures wanted 25 Billion in loans to keep 2 million families at work. &87 Billion was no problem for the rich but 25 for the working class was outrages. WE just saw it again in Dec. 700+ Billion for the rich or Millions of People will go without. We are fed by the news what they want. We argue on here about religious Bigots and Homosexuals and everything else and forget where all this Hatred comes from. Our Leadership.. The people follow what the top tells us. In the 90's Hollywood put out wilol and Grace made the Gays Cool and those who apposed Bigots. A well thoughtout show. They feed us deception and we argue about stuff when behind the scenes they are getting ready for something BIG. You look at the History of Germany before they broke out into WW@ and then look at us and thier not much difference. The play is the same just with differnt actors and different words. Then we fight each other while they kick back and make us to where we will not beable to have a Voice because we will not have the money to fight them and without it they can make the laws say whatever they want them to say when they want to. If you have been petitioning Capital Hill then you should know this is true. No money no voice thats the Real world we live in. Our struggles for equality is a misdirection to take all our rights away . EVERYONes but The ELITE CLASS/.. Blessings. of Shalom and May Yahweh have Mercy on us ALL....Miles Miles, can you narrow the scope of all the material above to issurs regarding Homosexuality only? Or maybe you are just attempting to show why there is so much hatred and discrimination against homosexuals - could that be it? Shalom Red. I believe the Hostility between Homosexuality and many other things are a cause and effected that has not come about by chance. Lot is said to be righteous yet he lived in Sodom and Gommorrah by choice. Thier is the substance of being unhospitable to each other also as we see how Lot responded to the strangers/Angels. The gay issue has been around for a long time and we are told it will be worse for us than then but we will be living among each other. we have different beliefs but knowledge and compassion go hand in hand. we all have choices what we all do not have is esp. To know anothers Heart. Blessings of Shalom..Miles |
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Ms.
my point is how much RISKIER it is to have anal sex,,,,and how such a practice need not be promoted or encouraged by the government. Exactly how does the above justify discriminating against gays in manner that we all agree is being done, but disagree on whether or not it is a justified discrimination? discriminating against gays would be making gay relations illegal, which I would also oppose what I am debating is that gay lifestyles need not be discriminated or promoted, but left as they are Left as they are? As in, not receiving full legal protection and benifits for their families? As in the children of same-sex parents feeling different and less equal than those of heterosexual parents? As in, a child having to explain to teachers about their home situation? What exactly do you think should be left alone? And what family members of same-sex households do you think would suffer the most by society 'ignoring' the relationship of same-sex couples? You can make homosexual equality about sex and disease - you can make this a fear of things to come - about tradition or morals BUT you cannot make it go away by 'leaving it alone'. Furthermore, unless or until the justifications become stronger or more logical against same-sex equality it will eventually reign. |
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IOW... If the argument is that not promoting gay lifestyle will stop the transmission of HIV, it is wrong on all accounts. It is equally wrong to assume that only gays take risks in their sexual practices. We could hypothetically remove all gays from society, and AIDS would still spread as long as people with HIV were having unprotected sex. that is not the argument, as HIV is not the only risk of anal sex, a completely UNNECESSARY activity(unlike heterosexual sex) of course HIV will be there (at this point) with or without homosexual activity, but so what not promoting incest does not STOP incest either, but it still has nothing to do with the importance of refusing to do so,,, Physical intimacy produces hormonal activity. One of the chemicals produces is oxytocin - it's often referred to as the 'bonding hormone'. The release of oxytocin, along with other hormones that feed the reward center of the brain, contribute to the long-term bonding of couples. This only occurs when passion and love take intimate form (or during and just after a birth). So this does not happen without attraction -THUS the intimate (sexual) relationship between homosexuals is a NECESSARY activity and more so when a couple has or wants to have children between them. Begetting children is not a problem - raising them in a safe, loving, nurturing, and enduring environment is more so, therefore your argument is flawed. There is more than one way in which a family grows. In fact it seems to me rather than arguing against same-sex marriage perhaps it is the defination of FAMILY that should be addressed. What is a family and do the same laws apply to all types of families? What does marriage have to do with the legal definition of family? |
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Miles wrote:
We all have choices what we all do not have is esp. To know anothers Heart. Blessings of Shalom..Miles That's a very interesting thought Miles, and I'm in total agreement with it. However, this thought can also be quite profound and enlightening. For example, I know in my heart that rejecting the ancient Hebrew fables does not in any way equate to rejection of any god. Therefore when it comes to rejecting the biblical picture of god it's totally unnecessary for me to know anyone's heart but my own. And that's the one heart that I most certainly do know. 
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You all really do not get what I have always said.. its a devide and conquer subject and we are the butt end of it..haha.. sorry could not resist
If you look at everything as a hole in our society we are led just where they want us.. its way more than homosexual thing.. just llok around at these boards and its an attack on all of us not in real power.. just look outside the box.. Shalom..Miles I'm sorry Miles, I don't understand what you are saying. (except for the pun - I got that, haha) I'm in on this thing, I live it every day, I read about it from all sides, every angle every day. I lobby my representitives, I have even written letters to the Supreme Court Justices (never answered of course). I have been aware of this issue for 26 years and I have been ivolved for the last 12 years. That's a lot of sessions of Congress, more than a few Presidents, and a lot of media. Who exactly do you think is behind this move to divide society? I can tell you, THAT has NEVER been the goal of those I work with. Our mission is to become an equitable, responsible, accepted, and valued part of society. So where is the division idea coming from? The division comes from all the Press certain things get. The sexual nature of the country is to teach division and Hatred. Why do you think all of a sudden at the same time Homosexual issues come into focus that Sex offenders are all over the news also? Bait and switch. on one hand those who go against the homosexual lifestyle are Bigots and Haters.. This is an Attack on the morals of the history of the church. Then at the same time we have a Villian,.. The sex offender who our Govt. preachs legalized Hate. No more Hate than thier Red. nomatter what you think of them. They lie with stastics and use Hollywood for thier agenda parading around children trying to make them think thier is a Boogie man on every corner. You know when the last time a Govt. promoted legalized hate and told the people to spy on a certain people? It was Hitler. Exactly the same tactics as he was proposing a Supreme Race. Some people do not deserve to live.. Does that rederic sound familiar? With the religious people or the old school you might say religious movement at odds with the Homosexual and what happens? War a Lieing war that killed and is still killing thousands and blaming Religious zealots for our Attack. Many do not believe it but do you know why we could not get a Coalition to go to war with us against Irack this time like we did in Desert Storm? France got experts the ones who actually designed the world trade Center and the film on the pentegon and made a Documentary in 2002 and showed it on European Television that by thier experts showed we killed our own people. Now I know people will thin k i am crazy but I am stating facts of what happened. What did we do? We made fun of France.. Remember the French Fry Jokes. Remember Colin Powell going Before the United Nations saying they had absolute Proof from 2 expert chemists defectors. ABC did a special on these 2 defectors years later and they had to run for thier lives and thier families did to because of this lie. Colin Powell did not like what they had to say that they knew of no chemicals being produced for warfare so he made it up. Do you see him being held accountable? Do you know that President Bushs father who is on the board of the Federal Reserve who is the agency that loans money to banks at 1 dollar for 10? What does that mean? that when you see something is Federally insured that is saying when the banks loan money they are allowed to loan on Paper 10x the amount they actually have on hand. Thats why they are always worried about a run on the banks. What the heck does all this have to do with the subject matter? Its like i said we can not see the trees for the Forest. When congress handed out 787+ billion to the banks to bail them out they were not bailing out the banks. The banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve borrows its money from many countries that are communists and Arab. Some of the biggestest investors are 12 of the Richests families in America. Now very little was ever said but when this Bail out was going on a The New York Times reporter did some checking on the federal reserves books. What did he find out? Thier was 2 Trillion dollars unaccounted for. So he filed for the books under the freedom of Information act. They refused. So he Filed in The Federal Courts for them and won. The Federal court served a supena to the Federal Reserve. Thier answer? Excutive Privilage.. No way was anyone seeing thier books who really is who we gave all the bailout money to that was insuring the banks against Bad Loans. Remember when Bush and cheney was to turn over documents to the senate Means committee. What did they say? Exucutive privelege and they got by with it but President Clinton gets a BJ by an intern and they want to impeach him when the country was in the best shape it had been in for decades. The big 3 auto manufactures wanted 25 Billion in loans to keep 2 million families at work. &87 Billion was no problem for the rich but 25 for the working class was outrages. WE just saw it again in Dec. 700+ Billion for the rich or Millions of People will go without. We are fed by the news what they want. We argue on here about religious Bigots and Homosexuals and everything else and forget where all this Hatred comes from. Our Leadership.. The people follow what the top tells us. In the 90's Hollywood put out wilol and Grace made the Gays Cool and those who apposed Bigots. A well thoughtout show. They feed us deception and we argue about stuff when behind the scenes they are getting ready for something BIG. You look at the History of Germany before they broke out into WW@ and then look at us and thier not much difference. The play is the same just with differnt actors and different words. Then we fight each other while they kick back and make us to where we will not beable to have a Voice because we will not have the money to fight them and without it they can make the laws say whatever they want them to say when they want to. If you have been petitioning Capital Hill then you should know this is true. No money no voice thats the Real world we live in. Our struggles for equality is a misdirection to take all our rights away . EVERYONes but The ELITE CLASS/.. Blessings. of Shalom and May Yahweh have Mercy on us ALL....Miles Miles, can you narrow the scope of all the material above to issurs regarding Homosexuality only? Or maybe you are just attempting to show why there is so much hatred and discrimination against homosexuals - could that be it? Shalom Red. I believe the Hostility between Homosexuality and many other things are a cause and effected that has not come about by chance. Lot is said to be righteous yet he lived in Sodom and Gommorrah by choice. Thier is the substance of being unhospitable to each other also as we see how Lot responded to the strangers/Angels. The gay issue has been around for a long time and we are told it will be worse for us than then but we will be living among each other. we have different beliefs but knowledge and compassion go hand in hand. we all have choices what we all do not have is esp. To know anothers Heart. Blessings of Shalom..Miles Thanks for your patience and responces. Our world, today, is FULL of noise. The noise is everywhere and it's like reading the minds of a million poeple a day. THAT's how I see media - from billboards, to radio, TV, Cable, the world wide web and the hand-held technology that keeps us connected 24/7. The problem, you seem to have identified, is that people lack the ability to discern validity in the endless, numerous streams of information that flood our senses every day. There ARE monsters out there, and even though it's ingrained in my personality to be skeptical of people I don't know very well, I STILL believe there is a human there with fears, doubts, cares, and concerns and precious few answers to life's questions, even when they don't admit to such frailty. We are LED to believe many things, but have relatively few personal experiences to support those beliefs. We take so much on faith that we forget or perhaps have never been taught that we are capable of 'knowing' so much more. Equality and justice, dispensed with the least possible encumbrance to freedom, levels the playing field in which we conduct our daily lifes. In that kind of level playing field, we would all be fighting the same kinds of monsters (together) instead of making monsters where none exist. |
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Harmony wrote: there are all types of preferences and fetishes adults have sexually, regardless of sexual orientation, but we cannot litigate sexual preferences when people consent,,, But yet that is exactly what is happening. Marriage between to consenting adults of age and mental consent should be allowed. Period and those who say not are over stepping boundaries into others lives that they wouldn't allow to happen to them. Noone is attempting to litigate sexual preferences, only marriage. And there goes your discriminatory nature again. Why do you get to choose age and mental capacity? If you cite current laws, so will I... If you cite "to protect the people", so will I... If you say because it's "sick", so will I... If you say "gender and rolls", so will I... It shouldn't be against any of the things you listed for gays to marry as long as they are in accordance with laws of age and consent. No matter how you want to put it or twist it that is how it should be. |
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You all really do not get what I have always said.. its a devide and conquer subject and we are the butt end of it..haha.. sorry could not resist
If you look at everything as a hole in our society we are led just where they want us.. its way more than homosexual thing.. just llok around at these boards and its an attack on all of us not in real power.. just look outside the box.. Shalom..Miles I'm sorry Miles, I don't understand what you are saying. (except for the pun - I got that, haha) I'm in on this thing, I live it every day, I read about it from all sides, every angle every day. I lobby my representitives, I have even written letters to the Supreme Court Justices (never answered of course). I have been aware of this issue for 26 years and I have been ivolved for the last 12 years. That's a lot of sessions of Congress, more than a few Presidents, and a lot of media. Who exactly do you think is behind this move to divide society? I can tell you, THAT has NEVER been the goal of those I work with. Our mission is to become an equitable, responsible, accepted, and valued part of society. So where is the division idea coming from? The division comes from all the Press certain things get. The sexual nature of the country is to teach division and Hatred. Why do you think all of a sudden at the same time Homosexual issues come into focus that Sex offenders are all over the news also? Bait and switch. on one hand those who go against the homosexual lifestyle are Bigots and Haters.. This is an Attack on the morals of the history of the church. Then at the same time we have a Villian,.. The sex offender who our Govt. preachs legalized Hate. No more Hate than thier Red. nomatter what you think of them. They lie with stastics and use Hollywood for thier agenda parading around children trying to make them think thier is a Boogie man on every corner. You know when the last time a Govt. promoted legalized hate and told the people to spy on a certain people? It was Hitler. Exactly the same tactics as he was proposing a Supreme Race. Some people do not deserve to live.. Does that rederic sound familiar? With the religious people or the old school you might say religious movement at odds with the Homosexual and what happens? War a Lieing war that killed and is still killing thousands and blaming Religious zealots for our Attack. Many do not believe it but do you know why we could not get a Coalition to go to war with us against Irack this time like we did in Desert Storm? France got experts the ones who actually designed the world trade Center and the film on the pentegon and made a Documentary in 2002 and showed it on European Television that by thier experts showed we killed our own people. Now I know people will thin k i am crazy but I am stating facts of what happened. What did we do? We made fun of France.. Remember the French Fry Jokes. Remember Colin Powell going Before the United Nations saying they had absolute Proof from 2 expert chemists defectors. ABC did a special on these 2 defectors years later and they had to run for thier lives and thier families did to because of this lie. Colin Powell did not like what they had to say that they knew of no chemicals being produced for warfare so he made it up. Do you see him being held accountable? Do you know that President Bushs father who is on the board of the Federal Reserve who is the agency that loans money to banks at 1 dollar for 10? What does that mean? that when you see something is Federally insured that is saying when the banks loan money they are allowed to loan on Paper 10x the amount they actually have on hand. Thats why they are always worried about a run on the banks. What the heck does all this have to do with the subject matter? Its like i said we can not see the trees for the Forest. When congress handed out 787+ billion to the banks to bail them out they were not bailing out the banks. The banks are insured by the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve borrows its money from many countries that are communists and Arab. Some of the biggestest investors are 12 of the Richests families in America. Now very little was ever said but when this Bail out was going on a The New York Times reporter did some checking on the federal reserves books. What did he find out? Thier was 2 Trillion dollars unaccounted for. So he filed for the books under the freedom of Information act. They refused. So he Filed in The Federal Courts for them and won. The Federal court served a supena to the Federal Reserve. Thier answer? Excutive Privilage.. No way was anyone seeing thier books who really is who we gave all the bailout money to that was insuring the banks against Bad Loans. Remember when Bush and cheney was to turn over documents to the senate Means committee. What did they say? Exucutive privelege and they got by with it but President Clinton gets a BJ by an intern and they want to impeach him when the country was in the best shape it had been in for decades. The big 3 auto manufactures wanted 25 Billion in loans to keep 2 million families at work. &87 Billion was no problem for the rich but 25 for the working class was outrages. WE just saw it again in Dec. 700+ Billion for the rich or Millions of People will go without. We are fed by the news what they want. We argue on here about religious Bigots and Homosexuals and everything else and forget where all this Hatred comes from. Our Leadership.. The people follow what the top tells us. In the 90's Hollywood put out wilol and Grace made the Gays Cool and those who apposed Bigots. A well thoughtout show. They feed us deception and we argue about stuff when behind the scenes they are getting ready for something BIG. You look at the History of Germany before they broke out into WW@ and then look at us and thier not much difference. The play is the same just with differnt actors and different words. Then we fight each other while they kick back and make us to where we will not beable to have a Voice because we will not have the money to fight them and without it they can make the laws say whatever they want them to say when they want to. If you have been petitioning Capital Hill then you should know this is true. No money no voice thats the Real world we live in. Our struggles for equality is a misdirection to take all our rights away . EVERYONes but The ELITE CLASS/.. Blessings. of Shalom and May Yahweh have Mercy on us ALL....Miles Miles, can you narrow the scope of all the material above to issurs regarding Homosexuality only? Or maybe you are just attempting to show why there is so much hatred and discrimination against homosexuals - could that be it? Shalom Red. I believe the Hostility between Homosexuality and many other things are a cause and effected that has not come about by chance. Lot is said to be righteous yet he lived in Sodom and Gommorrah by choice. Thier is the substance of being unhospitable to each other also as we see how Lot responded to the strangers/Angels. The gay issue has been around for a long time and we are told it will be worse for us than then but we will be living among each other. we have different beliefs but knowledge and compassion go hand in hand. we all have choices what we all do not have is esp. To know anothers Heart. Blessings of Shalom..Miles Thanks for your patience and responces. Our world, today, is FULL of noise. The noise is everywhere and it's like reading the minds of a million poeple a day. THAT's how I see media - from billboards, to radio, TV, Cable, the world wide web and the hand-held technology that keeps us connected 24/7. The problem, you seem to have identified, is that people lack the ability to discern validity in the endless, numerous streams of information that flood our senses every day. There ARE monsters out there, and even though it's ingrained in my personality to be skeptical of people I don't know very well, I STILL believe there is a human there with fears, doubts, cares, and concerns and precious few answers to life's questions, even when they don't admit to such frailty. We are LED to believe many things, but have relatively few personal experiences to support those beliefs. We take so much on faith that we forget or perhaps have never been taught that we are capable of 'knowing' so much more. Equality and justice, dispensed with the least possible encumbrance to freedom, levels the playing field in which we conduct our daily lifes. In that kind of level playing field, we would all be fighting the same kinds of monsters (together) instead of making monsters where none exist. First off Red, I don't hate homosexuals. I despise hypocrisy though. They can't say I'm descriminatory when they would descrimate also. Here's something you might like to read: Ezekiel 16:55 (King James Version) 55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate. It's better to take it in full context, you will appreciate it me thinks. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+16&version=KJV |
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Getting back to the OP question though. Christians have to be disingenuous or restrictive in their relationships with gay folks because there is no way they can approve and not say anything derogatory about the gay person's life. To truly love someone you have to be able to respect them and give them the right to make the choices that make them happy within the law of course. |
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