I dont know the history of these two or how intimidating the young man was, but I know if someone in their twenties struck my grand parent, I would understand if they bypassed the fighting and pulled a weapon instead

I dont feel sorry for the man, but I feel sorry for his familys loss.

That's what we usually call people who are convicted of felonies. And past military service, meritorious or otherwise, doesn't give Clements a license to dispense Frontier Justice as he sees fit.

-Kerry O.

Frontier Justice can also be taken as Self Defense, regardless of his past.

i just don't see how dog piss or a lawn is a reason to kill anyone...

it wasnt the dog piss, it was being assaulted by someone one third his age,,,

he wouldn't have been assaulted if he would have said hi to his neighbor either, instead of screaming and crying about dog piss...
thats what happens when two idiots get together

I cant go down that road, I have never agreed that words are an excuse for physical assault. IF I scream at someone, I expect to be screamed at. IF I use physical aggression, I expect physical aggression back.


noone has died from being yelled at, people have died from punches and bullets though

my point being that the old man started it by acting like an azz..
if he woulda been nice to his nieghbor, then he would be still alive right now... is having a nice lawn worth someones life?

still not clicking for me, free country equals free speech , ESPECIALLY on ones own property,, physical assault is NEVER Justified to respond to words,,, the other option was to keep walking and it was much more mature and viable and could have saved this young mans life instead of his false pride

it always takes two....if the old man would have been nice, that would have stopped it right there... and if the younger guy just would have keep walking, or been nice, he would be alive. freedom of speech has nothing to do with this, it is about not being an azzhole, which they both were being. NO matter what, a lawn or a dog pissing on it is not worth what happened...if an old man comes yelling at me, i just smile and move on, it really doesn't matter what his trip is...but i think they should have sent the old fool to prison.

agree to disagree


things escalate, sometimes when talking doesnt get through(who knows how many times this man may have tried asking politely), it escalates to yelling,, but thats nothing compared to actually assaulting someone

disagree on what? being nice is not a good thing? go ahead and yell at people for stupid reasons, the whole article tells you what happens...

no, not really, Ive been yelled at before and never hit anyone for it


he wasnt shot because his dog peed on the lawn, he was yelled at,,,,big deal,, it should have never escalated to an assault on someone three times his age


it went, dog peed on lawn,, leading to the owner fussing(reasonable)

owner fussing, which lead to owner being assaulted(unreasonable)

owner being assaulted, to owner defending himself with a weapon(reasonable)


none of it became unreasonable until the young man HIT the old man

like i said, that is what happens when you get two idiots together
reasonable or unreasonable, no one needed to die...so will he get prison time the next time a dogs pisses on his lawn and he shoots someone? The old man is to high strung to not be in prison, regardless of his perfect lawn...the old man started it, then he finished it...all on his terms, not the laws....baiting people into fights and then shooting them is against the law...

no, no, no, no

he didnt shoot anyone because their dog pissed on the lawn

he shot someone because that someone ASSAULTED him

I doubt he will serve one day, especially if it was legal for him to carry a weapon the law there probably permits him to use it if threatened(or assaulted)

he yelled, which is not illegal

the young man assaulted him,, which IS illegal

msharmony,
What if the man came two inches from your face screaming and spitting on you as he did?

Wouldn't you at least push him?

this is what I read
'In May 2009, as Funches passed Clements' home while walking his fox terrier, the dog lifted its leg and relieved itself, witnesses said. The two men got into an argument. After Funches cursed at him, Clements pulled out a .45-caliber handgun, then put it back in his pocket, the Tribune reported. Soon after, Funches punched Clements in the face. Clements said Funches was standing still when he redrew the gun and shot him, the Tribune reported. '


nothing indicates that clements spit on anyone, in fact, it seems from this that Clements first made it clear that he HAD a weapon BEFORE the idiot decided to punch him


so no, IF I was on a sidewalk with an obvious escape route and someone showed me a gun, I would continue walking and not even push them any furhter,,,

your missing the whole point... he started the whole thing(the old man), then he shot him him...HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIT IF THE OLD MAN WAS BEING NICE...then he would have had no reason to shoot anyone...the whole thing started because the old man was being an azzhole. laws or not, if they both would have nice to each other, no one would be dead...

OK
So it doesn't say spit. That was a side question to you because you claimed pacifism.

But it does say,

The judge told Clements the slaying wasn't about a dog urinating on a lawn, but "about your reaction ... to being yelled at, pushed and punched in the face by a 23-year-old man," the Tribune reported.

Having repeatedly earned University Park's lawn upkeep award, Clements often verbally harassed anyone who stepped near or on his precious grass, neighbors said.



Sounds to me like the guy had a problem and wasn't very well liked in the neighborhood. He probably asked for it.
Can you imagine what he'll be like now? Probation? Come on!

I dont like guns for this reason. Either they are viable as defense or they are not. I recall a man being justified by the courts for shooting people that were robbing his NEIGHBORS, and that was considered a reasonable enough threat for his actions

but this man gets actually PUNCHED by someone less than half his age who precedes to stand there, and THATS not reasonable enough for his reaction?

the courts are as usual very inconsistent in dispensing 'justice'


perhaps the old man is an as hole, but thats not criminal especially on his own property

I dont feel the decision was just because I dont see why someone in their sixties would ever be compelled to feel they had a fair shot at exchanging blows with someone in their TWENTIES instead of doing something more likely to protect them,, like use the gun they have a legal permit for,,,