Agreed which is why watching the current become completely dismantled would in the long run possibly be the best thing for both mankind animal and plant kingdoms

Well, hopefully it will only take a significant portion of the population to be decimated and it will click with everyone else that how we have been managing our lives for the past 30+ years just isn't working...sometimes it only takes one death to awaken an entire civilization.

Unfortunately mankind is so self-absorbed that it will take potentially millions of deaths for any of this to click whatsoever...hence me questioning the theory of evolution, evolution is a difficult concept to truly believe in anymore, devolution seems more fitting these days we're just not monkeys yet.

I do believe that Darwins Theory of Evolution has merit, as evidenced by scientists around the world of new species in the biological world......1- Walphin Hawaii mating of a dolphin and whale 2- mating of brown recluse spider and black widow to form a more deadly spider......but the question I put forth with this evolution is if we created as human race industry deforrestation and interference with the natural selection process have in essence created our catastrophic pending.....take the spider for instance where we have created a serum to help with brown recluse bites and a serum to help with black widow bites with the evolution evidence of the brown widow how much harder will it be to protect humans from the bite of the brown widow how much harder to make a serum and if we do make a serum as in diseases what will be the next to battle, so in essence we constantly battle natural selection where as if we left it alone it might not get so much harder to battle....the natural process in my opinion will eventually take over to catastrophic levels by our own creation......as we kill it it in essence does try to revive itself and kill the homosapien and with good cause everything wants to live.......and as in any animal kingdom they all wish the right to live in freedom as we enslave the animal kingdom in zoos.....making mistakes believing we can tame them to have animal instinct take over and turn on us....tame them in freedom and not captivity actuality not taming but respecting and cohabitating which is how it was meant to be as Indians and Mayans once did....take no more than what you need and give back to the Earth and the Earth will give back to us.....destroy take and steal from the Earth and it will destroy us...........JMO

when we give up the desire to be humankind and replace with complacency with being animals...

It's too much of a headache to try to apply theories of evolution to humans because we have technology & that screws everything up when you consider natural laws! Humans have become so removed from "nature" in a sense that we need to amend these thories for our species, especially for this country where the "less desirable" genetics get passed on more often that desirable traits! Also, the rates that humans are able to change our body chemistry (chemical processes) with medications is not natural either.

Actually, birth control has been linked to poor mate choices in humans because it changes the way our odor receptors process scent. The genes for these receptors are linked to our immune genes so mate selection should be based on choosing someone with differnt combinations of immune receptors!

humans complicate everything & I have had on professor that swears technology is the biggest enemy for our species!

I agree technology is a blessing and a curse,,,we strive more often for easier when easier isnt healthier,,,

I agree to an extent.

The main reason I question evolution is because the only thing that is evolving is technology and animals. Man quit evolving it seems centuries ago, in a way...man just gave up.

The conclusion I have come to is that man is eventually going to become extinct while animals continue to evolve and adapt to differing environments. Man creates technology to adapt and evolve, while humanity for whatever reason chooses not to adapt and evolve to their surroundings. Us typing this on an internet forum is testament to that, as the movie Fear and Loathing said: "Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?"

Pardon the pun.

Actually homosapiens have always been "dumb beasts". Homosapiens elevated their own status in their own minds.......we thought we were smarter than nature and homeostasis.......but the truth is we are not........nature will take over a decimate anything man made in the end.......we supposedly are smart enough to evade our evntuality but are we truly because each time it takes longer and longer to defeat that which is meant to kill us off......example HIV virus has taken longer to find ways to help or to develop "the day after pill" or to prolong life that developed full blown AIDS anyways we create our own demise through our technology

well Id naturaly select U to procreate with

There are a lot of ways that we interfere with natural selection that most wouldn't want to give up.

Seat belt laws,

Inoculating/Vaccinating children from childhood diseases,

Our pure food and drug laws,

Drunk driving laws,

Speed limits,

The fight against capitol punishment,

Organizations like Amnesty International,

Aid/relief given at the time of natural disasters,

Child safety devices,

Bicycle helmets (just to name a few).

I won't even get into what the actual causes of all the cancers that seem to have such an effect on the human species. We fight the ways of natural selection the whole way. For thousands of years we survived as a species without any real outside controls to protect us from ourselves or others. Now, we like to think that we've "evolved." There could be a good argument as to whether we have or not, but that's another topic.

Yet, we have found ways to avoid some of the little things nature used to use to take the "excess" away from the human population. Even our peace processes help hinder that natural process. As man is the only natural enemy of man, we are our own best control, as far as nature is concerned, and we no longer wish to have that job. Interfere with natural selection? It seems we try to do as much interference as we can.

Guess that would depend on who you ask......not everyone believes vaccinations are beneficial.........and if there were no car to pollute and destroy the earth half of the things you stated would not even be necessary.....without car vehicular manslaughter would not exist......drinking and driving would not exist......child safety restraints would not be necessary....nor speed limits nor those to enforce these "laws", the food and drug administartion allow preservatives, msgs, and hormonally enhanced meats......which are all dangerous and the cause of certain kinds of cancers........organically grown fruit and vegetables, wild meats, and organic dairies have been proven more beneficial to growth, mental acuity, and less childhood issues for growing children into adulthood.....as for aid after natural disasters mankind has always pulled together and relied on one another for supoort and survival in clan type structures throughout history including mideval times.........everything you state we have laws for is caused by technology and mankind is in no way "natural"

U funny Mikey procreation passed me by.....................am no longer at that stage

the "Mad Cowboy".....http://www.madcowboy.com/01_BookOV.000.html

MAD COWBOY:
Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won't Eat Meat

The best-selling book by Howard F. Lyman (with Glen Merzer)


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In the tradition of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring," an alarming exposé about the beef industry that could change the way you eat forever...

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Howard F. Lyman has brought the issue of the dangers of eating beef to light like never before. A former cattle rancher-turned-vegetarian and food safety activist, in 1996, Lyman revealed, to a national television audience, how the cattle industry potentially exposed Americans to Mad Cow Disease by feeding cows the remains of live animals - including other cows. As a result of his remarks, Lyman was named a co-defendant with Oprah Winfrey in the infamous "veggie libel" case brought by Texas ranchers in Amarillo.

In this shocking and powerful book, Lyman uncovers the dangerous and potentially deadly practices of the cattle and dairy industry. MAD COWBOY is a passionate manifesto for change from an industry insider whose firsthand experiences will alter the way you think about your food, and the people who produce it, forever. "Sure, I used to enjoy my steaks as much as the next guy," writes Lyman. "But if you knew what I know about what goes into them and what they can do to you, you'd probably be a vegetarian like me."

A fourth generation dairy farmer and cattle rancher, Lyman became enamored of the "bold new age of chemically enhanced agriculture" as a student in agricultural college. Spurning the organic farming methods of his father and grandfather, he became a convert to modern chemical farming techniques: he fed his cows with hormones and antibiotics, and blanketed his farm with pesticides and herbicides. With his mind relentlessly focused on profits, he refused to acknowledge the harmful effects that this steady stream of chemicals might pose for the environment and for consumers who would later ingest these chemicals as meat. Admitting that at the time he "never met a chemical he didn't like, " Lyman says that he, like other dairy and cattle farmers, poisoned his animals and polluted his farms.

FOR EXAMPLE:

Cattle ranchers turned cows into cannibals. Until August 1997, cattle were routinely fed the remains of other cows. The Department of Agriculture and the FDA banned the practice, fearing the spread of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, better known as Mad Cow Disease. But it remains legal to feed cows "rendered" -- dead and ground up -- parts of certain animals, including the blood of other cows, despite the fact that this practice may allow deadly illnesses to enter the food chain. In 1995, five million tons of processed slaughterhouse leftovers were sold for animal feed.

In an effort to prevent disease, Lyman, like other ranchers, fed his cows antibiotics even before they became ill. Soon, Lyman was on an "antibiotic treadmill" constantly changing drugs as the cows became resistant to them, and even using antibiotics after they were banned because of the dangers they posed to human health. Every day, Lyman sprayed his feedlot with insecticides which would then fall into the cattle's food and water -- and eventually become part of someone's dinner. Ranchers relentlessly used growth hormones, particularly DES, which they stockpiled when it was banned.

To increase their profits, ranchers also routinely fed growth hormones to cattle within two weeks of their slaughter, despite a government ban on the practice. Dairy ranchers continue to use recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) to enhance milk production, despite the fact that this chemical -- which has been implicated in causing cancer and other diseases -- shows up in milk.

In 1989, the discovery of a rare spinal tumor led Lyman to examine his life. In MAD COWBOY, he tells the moving story of his own personal transformation, and how he became a crusader for organic farming and more conscious eating habits. Lyman describes the devastating effects that modern feed lot operations are having - and will continue to have - on the environment, and also outlines the profound health benefits that switching to a vegetarian diet offers, including reducing the risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, and diabetes. After adopting a vegetarian diet, Lyman himself lost 130 pounds and lowered his cholesterol by more than 150 points.

"...I felt better knowing that there was one answer to many of the different ills afflicting both ourselves and our environment. Everything revolved around the fork." (MAD COWBOY, p. 81)

MAD COWBOY is an honestly written, urgent wake-up call to America, a heartfelt plea for all consumers to take a closer look at the food they eat, and how it is grown.
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something i will add that i read in the book...they also put all euphenized pets and some roadkill in the rendering, and one quarter of the rendering is poop, feces, call it what you like, but cows are eating it......then you eat it.(not me) oh joy to the day.

Mankind is above natural selection. Natural selection is for animals that don't know any better.

Yeah well I didn't go completely vegan but I did go completely organic and eat fish and chicken.......I eat fresh fish caught by friends or myself......I do eat bison......which is leaner a raised quite differently

Ha! They were talking about some of this in Mother Earth News. Discussions of less methane, if cows are allowed to eat naturally, rather then forced to stand on feedlots, and eat the made up food. Also the fact that people and politicians don't know that they eat grass, and basically the idiocies of what people don't understand about them.

I've gone to an organic meat on all the meat I eat.

Bison will only be natural until the demand for them kicks in, and then they'll be just be cows. They get mixed/unknown feeds too.

most of what is alive today is ... unnatural selection ... thanks to people wanting to change everything around them.

Natural selection in the animal kingdom will only occur after we are gone.

Mankind percieves itself to be above nature, but in reality nature will kick our assssses in the end. There is no doubt................