Previous 1 3 4
Topic: Pentagon Study on DADT Released
Redykeulous's photo
Tue 11/30/10 06:49 PM
Pentagon study on DADT released

About the study:
“The report surveyed “400,000 active duty and reserve component Service members with an extensive and professionally-developed survey, which prompted 115,052 responses-one of the largest surveys in the history of the U.S. military,” (which includes self-identied gay or lesbian servicemembers), along with 150,000 spouses and other family members, foreign allies, members of Congress, services chiefs, service academy superintendents, and other personnel.”

Updated: “An interesting section on page 122 (QUOTED BELOW) that I think gets at much of the concern and stereotypes not just in the military, but in greater society with respect to gays and lesbians becoming teachers, or the passage of ENDA- and batted down by the Pentagon.”

- SOURCE: Pentagon DADT study released: Discussing some of the key findings Cross posted from Open Left By Adam Bink


A few quotes from the Study: (The Study can be found on SCRIBED “Reports of the Comprehensive View of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” )

In listening to Service members we found a perceptions gap- between the perception of the gay Service member that people know and work with, and the perception of the stereotypical gay individual that people do not know and have never worked with. When Service members talk about a unit member they believe to be gay or lesbian, their assessment of that individual was based on a complete picture and actual experience, including the Service member’s technical and tactical capabilities and other characteristics that contribute to his or her overall effectiveness as a member of the military and as a colleague.

By contrast, when asked about serving with the imagined gay Service member who is “open” about his or her sexual orientation, that feature becomes the predominant if not sole characteristic of the individual, and stereotypes fill in the rest of the picture. Stereotypes motivated many of the comments we heard. The most prevalent concern expressed is that gay men will behave in a stereotypically effeminate manner, while lesbian women are stereotypically painted in “masculine” terms. We heard widespread perceptions that, if permitted to be open and honest about their sexual orientation, gay Service members would behave as sexual predators and make unwelcome sexual advances on heterosexuals, gay men would adopt feminine behavior and dress, there would be open and notorious displays of affection in the military environment between same-sex couples, and that repeal would lead to an overall erosion of unit cohesion, morale, and good order and discipline. Based on our review, however, we conclude that these concerns are exaggerated and not consistent with the reported experiences of many Service members.

The perceptions gap we note here is also reflected in the survey data. The data reveals that Service members who are currently serving with someone they believe to be gay or lesbian are less likely to perceive a negative impact of repeal on the key elements of unit task and social cohesion, and unit effectiveness. Conversely, those who have believe they have never served with someone who is gay or lesbian are more likely to perceive a negative impact. Likewise, of Service members who believe they have in their career served in a unit with a co-worker who is gay or lesbian, 92% stated that the unit’s “ability to work together” was “very good,” “good,” or “neither good nor poor.”

Thus, our view is that the negative perceptions and predictions of serving alongside a gay Service member are refuted by the considerable track record of actual experiences where Service members did exactly that.


Check out PBS for an interview by Jim Lehrer with The study chairman Jeh Johnson & Gen. Carter Ham
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec10/dadt_11-30.html

mightymoe's photo
Tue 11/30/10 08:04 PM
Phttttttttttttttttttt

tanyaann's photo
Tue 11/30/10 08:13 PM
What was found here has been shown over and over again in sterotyping by the general population... Doesn't surprise me. I really really hope they over turn DADT.

no photo
Tue 11/30/10 09:16 PM
the bottom line is that straight men dont want to serve with gay men because they know how much pigs men are and cant stand having to deal with the shoe being on the other foot for a change.....

rofl

Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/30/10 09:46 PM

the bottom line is that straight men dont want to serve with gay men because they know how much pigs men are and cant stand having to deal with the shoe being on the other foot for a change.....

rofl



I think it is more the idea of gay men having sex on a daily basis with other men regardless of where they are serving and the fact that straight men would have to deal with watching and listening to it.Why do you think men and women live in separate barracks on military bases?You have any idea what would happen if men and women lived in the same barracks on military bases?Hundreds of men and women living under the same tent?


You want to hear and deal with couples gay or straight making out and having sex right next to you?When you are over in Iraq or Afghanistan you don't have the luxury of your own private room where you can do what ever you want.Everything you are doing you are sharing it with 50 other people.That is why men and women don't live together and that is why gay men and women are not allowed.The 50 or 100 people living with you don't need to see your kissing,fondling,panting,and ultimately arguing,bickering,and fighting.


You want to be openly gay with your boyfriend or girlfriend?Better have a separate tent where you can do what ever you want because I doubt if 5-10 people will tolerate it let alone 50-100.



msharmony's photo
Wed 12/01/10 12:05 AM
I dont agree with it, but I do respect it as a decision for those in the service to make. If they say its ok(which is different from just not vehemently opposing),, than I say listen to them.

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:37 AM

I dont agree with it, but I do respect it as a decision for those in the service to make. If they say its ok(which is different from just not vehemently opposing),, than I say listen to them.


the military is not a democracy, you do what your told to do...it doesn't matter what anyone in the military thinks or wants, it is up to the people in charge... whatever decision they make, the the enlisted will have no choice in the matter.

msharmony's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:42 AM
Edited by msharmony on Wed 12/01/10 11:43 AM


I dont agree with it, but I do respect it as a decision for those in the service to make. If they say its ok(which is different from just not vehemently opposing),, than I say listen to them.


the military is not a democracy, you do what your told to do...it doesn't matter what anyone in the military thinks or wants, it is up to the people in charge... whatever decision they make, the the enlisted will have no choice in the matter.


I agree, but they must have had a REASON to do the study. If they take into consideration the MORALE of their enlisted(which I think they should), than I think they should take their collective frame of mind into consideration and if that frame of mind is not ill effected by a reverse in policy, I cant see a reason to object, at least to a trial basis(sometimes things play out in REALITY differently than we predict they will)

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:43 AM

the bottom line is that straight men dont want to serve with gay men because they know how much pigs men are and cant stand having to deal with the shoe being on the other foot for a change.....

rofl


i agree, it really creeps me out...i do not look at it as a nice come on, i see it as an unwelcome, creepy attempt to make me something i am not...There is nothing about me that says gay, and their will never be, so if they wanna stop coming on to me, i would have less of a problem with it.

msharmony's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:46 AM
thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:53 AM

thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?


apparently, none of that matters... all that matters is the gays get what they want, and nothing else matters at all... nice free world, huh..

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:55 AM
Edited by mightymoe on Wed 12/01/10 11:55 AM
thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


to be honest with you, when gays did the same to me, it did teach me about how we treat women sometimes... i do try to remember that when dealing with women now...

msharmony's photo
Wed 12/01/10 11:57 AM


thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?


apparently, none of that matters... all that matters is the gays get what they want, and nothing else matters at all... nice free world, huh..


do you think its fair as it stands? Im not military and I dont know the particulars,,,but if a homosexual could be discharged for disclosing their preference, even if they have done their duty as asked,,,is that 'just' ?


I am truly of the opinion that its something for those who have to LIVE there to decide, I wouldnt want it, but perhaps majority (soldiers)should decide how and with whom they wish to bunk?

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 12:09 PM



thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?


apparently, none of that matters... all that matters is the gays get what they want, and nothing else matters at all... nice free world, huh..


do you think its fair as it stands? Im not military and I dont know the particulars,,,but if a homosexual could be discharged for disclosing their preference, even if they have done their duty as asked,,,is that 'just' ?


I am truly of the opinion that its something for those who have to LIVE there to decide, I wouldnt want it, but perhaps majority (soldiers)should decide how and with whom they wish to bunk?


i don't think fair has anything to do with it... it is the military, not wal mart. the military has a very important job to do, and more than just a few lives are at stake. i think it does not need the distraction it will entail. If all the members are not 100% focused on their jobs, the jobs will not get done. Being gay is not an issue, they can perform just as well as anyone else, but a lot of the straight people might not be able to see past that. and, like i have said all along, why do they need to be openly gay in the military? it is not a big nightclub to meet their life partners, as do straight men or women do not join to look for theirs. so why is it even important?

no photo
Wed 12/01/10 12:50 PM


the bottom line is that straight men dont want to serve with gay men because they know how much pigs men are and cant stand having to deal with the shoe being on the other foot for a change.....

rofl


i agree, it really creeps me out...i do not look at it as a nice come on, i see it as an unwelcome, creepy attempt to make me something i am not...There is nothing about me that says gay, and their will never be, so if they wanna stop coming on to me, i would have less of a problem with it.


So, you're saying gay men come onto you all the time? With your attitude toward homosexuality, I doubt that's happening.

no photo
Wed 12/01/10 12:50 PM
Edited by singmesweet on Wed 12/01/10 12:55 PM

no photo
Wed 12/01/10 12:54 PM




thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?


apparently, none of that matters... all that matters is the gays get what they want, and nothing else matters at all... nice free world, huh..


do you think its fair as it stands? Im not military and I dont know the particulars,,,but if a homosexual could be discharged for disclosing their preference, even if they have done their duty as asked,,,is that 'just' ?


I am truly of the opinion that its something for those who have to LIVE there to decide, I wouldnt want it, but perhaps majority (soldiers)should decide how and with whom they wish to bunk?


i don't think fair has anything to do with it... it is the military, not wal mart. the military has a very important job to do, and more than just a few lives are at stake. i think it does not need the distraction it will entail. If all the members are not 100% focused on their jobs, the jobs will not get done. Being gay is not an issue, they can perform just as well as anyone else, but a lot of the straight people might not be able to see past that. and, like i have said all along, why do they need to be openly gay in the military? it is not a big nightclub to meet their life partners, as do straight men or women do not join to look for theirs. so why is it even important?


If it's not even important, then it shouldn't matter to you whether someone is gay or straight. And if that's the case, there's no need to hide their sexual orientation.

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 01:52 PM



the bottom line is that straight men dont want to serve with gay men because they know how much pigs men are and cant stand having to deal with the shoe being on the other foot for a change.....

rofl


i agree, it really creeps me out...i do not look at it as a nice come on, i see it as an unwelcome, creepy attempt to make me something i am not...There is nothing about me that says gay, and their will never be, so if they wanna stop coming on to me, i would have less of a problem with it.


So, you're saying gay men come onto you all the time? With your attitude toward homosexuality, I doubt that's happening.


don't be jealous, there is more than enough of me for all the ladies...

mightymoe's photo
Wed 12/01/10 01:54 PM





thats understandable too, but women also have unwanted creepy advances from men


the military partly handles that by seperating women from men, but how do you seperate gay men from straight men? if you put all gay men together dont you increase the 'risk' of inappropriate fraternizing? if you mix them with straight men with the freedom to 'express' their preference, dont you risk an environment where there is less trust and confidence and more suspicion and discomfort?


apparently, none of that matters... all that matters is the gays get what they want, and nothing else matters at all... nice free world, huh..


do you think its fair as it stands? Im not military and I dont know the particulars,,,but if a homosexual could be discharged for disclosing their preference, even if they have done their duty as asked,,,is that 'just' ?


I am truly of the opinion that its something for those who have to LIVE there to decide, I wouldnt want it, but perhaps majority (soldiers)should decide how and with whom they wish to bunk?


i don't think fair has anything to do with it... it is the military, not wal mart. the military has a very important job to do, and more than just a few lives are at stake. i think it does not need the distraction it will entail. If all the members are not 100% focused on their jobs, the jobs will not get done. Being gay is not an issue, they can perform just as well as anyone else, but a lot of the straight people might not be able to see past that. and, like i have said all along, why do they need to be openly gay in the military? it is not a big nightclub to meet their life partners, as do straight men or women do not join to look for theirs. so why is it even important?


If it's not even important, then it shouldn't matter to you whether someone is gay or straight. And if that's the case, there's no need to hide their sexual orientation.


i don't, as long as they leave me alone, i really could care less whether they like clams or sausage...

InvictusV's photo
Wed 12/01/10 02:03 PM
what is going to be next, transsexuals suing to be able to go through basic training with women?

I hope all of you supporting this are going to do the same when men start suing to be able to marry 10 women..

Previous 1 3 4