One of the strongest arguements for Christianity and the Jesus story is that it cannot be proven to be untrue. We are 2000 years later without videos, pictures etc to prove the biblical version of Jesus is false.....
Kinda like flying elephants....
I have seen many live elephants in my 54 years, many pics, etc...and I have never seen an elephant fly. There are cartoons and drawings of flying elephants (dumbo, etc..) so some might think they are based upon truth... and some would argue, since I have not traveled the globe and looked at every elephant, the elephants I have never seen could have a few among them that can fly.

But based upon logic, reason, science and common sense I know elephants don't fly. Kinda like God wasn't mad at people for eating an apple after listening to a talking snake... then inseminating a woman to have a god/son to suffer and die for us. I wasn't there 2000 years ago, but this story is beyond bazarre.....It would be easier to buy into worshiping flying elephants !!! LOL

Even that is a weak argument because it's filled with contradictions and absurdities thus rendering any arguments that it might be true rather weak.




Well this is certainly a TRUTH that no sane person can deny, IMHO.

Even Christians must confess that it's bizarre if they are to retain an once of honesty. A God allowing his creation to be totally manipulated and corrupted by a "fallen angel"?

If that's not bizarre then what would be?

Faith is what makes me believe in a higher power. Knowing that there is something more out there that is greater then I am. I was not present when colombus rediscovered a land that was already populated by natives. I wasn't there when they had slavery and hundreds of whites did ugly things to other people. I wasn't even there when they invented electricity.But i use electricity every day and I am a free person here in the united states. I don't see air but i use it all the time. acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real.

Free Your Mind Man!....the rest will follow...

Who told you that? There are many good arguments to believe in Christianity, that is not one.

Faith is a concept and whatever confirms or breaks a person's faith are likewise conceptual. In other words, little in the objective world influences faith in general.

While an individual can site actions or things which confirm or destroy their faith - the reasoning behind those determination is wholly subjective.

Having faith in any particular concept or thing should not, in general, be a cause for others to diminish or belittle the faith of others.

Unfortunately, many people are easily persuaded to develop faith in certain things because there seem to easy answers to some of life's unaswerable questions.

When people think they have answers that 'everyone' should accept, they want to share that knowledge and the individual comfort found in having that knowledge.

However, the real problem begins when a person's faith passes from the realm of individual reasoning to behavioral application of rigid and dogmatic doctrine to the objective physical world.

We can question a person's logic and present our own, and even present undeniable information contrary to an individual belief but we can't force people to break faith with themselves.

The best we can do is attempt to equalize ALL matters of faith & belief by setting legal limitations on the freedom to act in accordance to personal beliefs. In this way no group or individual has an advantage based on beliefs but all are prevented from interfering with the equal freedom of others to hold on to their own faith and beliefs in an equal manner.

I agree.

However, this becomes extremely problematic when someone's "faith" requires that they deem you to be a 'heathen' unless you share their faith.

That's where faith itself diminishes and belittles the faith of others via its core philosophy and doctrines.

"If you don't believe like me, you have chosen to turn against God".

That's a problematic faith right there.

Unless you believe in liberty, then you don't care what other's believe so long as they don't infringe on other's rights.

That's where the problem comes in. They do infringe on other's rights, quite often.

You'd need to be blind not to recognize that it's the "faith" and "beliefs" of Christians that cause gays so much GRIEF!

And the problem is that even when this isn't done officially through political protests or channels it still affects the lives of the non-Christians in major ways on a daily basis.

Take the OP for example. It starts out, "One of the strongest arguements for Christianity and the Jesus story is that it cannot be proven to be untrue."

Obviously this is a "defensive" reaction to something that is being constantly proselytized. This kind of constant proselytizing of this bigoted 'faith' affects people who do not care to believe in those things. You'd be truly kidding yourself to think otherwise.

I seriously doubt that 2smileloudly would have even bothered posting his concerns if he wasn't seeing these sort of claims being made on a continual and relentless basis. Obviously he must have felt that enough people appear to stand behind those claims that it's worth posting on a public forum. So I seriously doubt that he thinks those claims would apply only to his neighbor down the street or something like that.

Face it, the ideology that Christianity is the "Only Way to God" and that any other "choice" is a "choice" to REJECT GOD, is a huge part of the Christian's WAR ON SATAN.

That truly sad thing is that they PUSH their evil demon onto everyone else.

And that's what's so damn annoying.

If they would keep their evil demons to themselves it wouldn't be so bad. But they basically PUSH their evil demon down the throats of anyone who refuses to worship their blood-thirsty God.

That's really the problem with it. They refuse to keep their faith to themselves, they LUST to shove it down the throats of everyone else.

That's the problem with it.

And then when people react "defensively" the Christians scream FOUL!

"Why are you attacking our sweet innocent religion?"

Yeah right.

tl;dr;

You need to understand that our system of government protects speech, yes, even speech that offends you.

That's true it does, and I am personally very thankful for that. There were times and places in history when a person could be killed for publicly speaking out against Christianity.

However, it's not about me being offended.

I'm not offended by Christian religious bigotry. Evidently it's the Christians who become offended when I suggest that the Bible is nonsense.

Although, getting back to the concept of our government protecting speech. Our government also recognizes "hate speech" as an exception to this freedom. There are laws against "hate speech".

As far as I'm concerning, telling someone that they are "Rejecting God" is a hateful thing to accuse someone of. Of course, I fully understand that the Christians believe they own God. They often use the excuse that if we don't believe in THEIR God then why should we care if they claim we are rejecting him. But the problem with that hypocritical notion is that they also hold out the ideal that their God is indeed the ONLY GOD and thus is indeed a reference to the creator of all humanity.

Thus to tell someone that they are "Rejecting God" simply because they refuse to accept someone else's faith is basically ahateful and hurtful judgment and an insult to anyone.

Therefore in a very real sense their proselytizing of their religion as the "Only True Word of God" is indeed a form of hate speech.

It's form of hate speech against all other faiths. If this had to do with race instead of religion it would already be outlawed.

Members of the UN have indeed suggested as much. They have suggested that international laws should be made that prohibit the proselytizing of religion on such grounds (i.e. on the grounds of accusing people of "rejecting God" if they fail to accept a particular religion), for this is obviously the cause of much civil unrest. Especially in the Middle East, obviously.

It's not just Christianity either. It really applies to all the Abrahamic religions since they are the ones that do this. They are all based on the notion of a jealous God who hates those who reject him.

It's sad that these religions are founded on such a selfish and religiously bigoted principle, but unfortunately they are.

We don't see religious of the Eastern Mystics going around accusing people of rejecting God if they refuse to accept Buddhism, Hinduism, or whatever. We also don't see Wiccans going around accusing people of rejecting God either. Those spiritual faiths simply aren't based on the idea of a jealous godhead who hates heathens.

I personally wish there were some way to free the Abrahamic religions from their burden of religious bigotry, but that's a very difficult thing to do when these religions are basically founded on this very principle as the very FIRST of their Ten Commandments from their God.

How can you change a philosophical cathedral that is standing on a foundation of jealousy? It's an extremely difficult issue to address.

About the only way to deal with it is to tear it down altogether and hope that the next cathedral that emerges to replace it has a more loving foundation.

I have seen elephants fly. I have also seen them play soccer.

Does that make me religious?

tl;dr;

The US government limits hate speech laws down to a very narrow number of topics, because we have the first amendment to protect our right to say things that others disagree with. Saying that someone is "rejecting God" isn't hate speech under US law.

Of course, half the drivel you spew about Christianity would get you killed if you said the same thing about Islam or Muhammad in several countries. You take for granted that Christians won't cut your head off with a rust knife and that puts the lie to all your claimed fears of Christianity.

There is no Muslim country where you will be killed for saying anything anti Muslim. You would just be asked to leave.

Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan

WAF outraged at jirga’s judgment of stoning to death Her crime? Walking with a non-relative male.

Bangladesh Court Orders Protection for Muslim Girl Who Was Punished for Being RapedShe was raped, so she got 101 lashes. Her rapist received a full pardon.

I'm not concerned with any of that.

For the most part what I do is attempt to explain to proselytizing Christians why I don't believe the Biblical cannon has any merit.

Right off that bat a Christian would call that "Drivel being spewed about Christianity".

You can't even sincerely, honestly, or intellectually address these concerns without the Christians getting irate.

You need to keep in mind that it's the Christians who are SELLING the idea that the the Bible is the Word of God.

All I'm doing is attempting to convey why I'm not "BUYING".

Unfortunately the greatest reason that I don't buy it is because the stories are truly absurd. Again, the Christians take 'offense' to this. They take offense to the idea that someone thinks their religious doctrine is absurd.

But let's not lose SIGHT of what's going on. THEY ARE SELLING! I'm NOT BUYING!

Yet they CONTINUE to keep selling. And I continue to explain why I'm not buying.

This is like the people who live in glass houses. If they don't want their windows broken they shouldn't be casting the first stones in the first place by trying to CONVINCE me that if I don't accept the Bible as the "Word of God" I'm rejecting God.

That's their PREMISE.

My PREMISE is that the stories are absurd.

Get it?

As long as they continue to try to SELL me on the idea that the Bible is the "Word of God", I'll continue to explain to them why I'm convinced that it's not.

You call that 'drivel', simply because it doesn't agree with your conclusions. But as far as I'm concerned, the very claim that the Bible is the "Word of God" is 'drivel'.

So 'drivel' is being spewed by everyone depending on whose vantage point you're taking.

As far as I'm concerned the very notion of a God who is appeased by having someone crucified on a pole is 'drivel'.

I see nothing divine in such a concept at all.

That's fair is it not?

And I state all my other concerns as well.

Why would an all-powerful God allow a stupid powerless fallen angel to screw up his creation?

Why was a fallen angel even required in the first place? This implies to me that mankind would not have fallen from grace on his OWN if a demon was required to coerce him into it.

Why did a God who supposedly had a Master Plan, first deal with sinners by drowning them, and then later have such a drastic change of heart that he "Loved the world so much he gave his only begotten son to save it?"

When did he have such a huge change of heart and why?

Also why couldn't he have just forgiven men their sins? What's up with having his son crucified to "pay" for sins? Who needed to be "paid" by such a horrific act? God????

Why would a God consider having his son butchered as 'payment' for the sins of men? Sounds pretty sadistic to me.

And men even did it? Since when does MORE WRONGS make a right?

These are legitimate questions.

How can you call them 'drivel'? Just because you cannot offer sane answers for them?

Why did Jesus teach such different moral values and behaviors than had been taught in the Torah, if he was indeed the son of that God?

Why did Jesus say that he did not come to change the laws one jot nor one tittle if his intention was to change them dramatically?

Why did Jesus refer to the Torah as "Your Laws" when speaking with the Scribes and Pharisees if the Torah was indeed "God's Laws"?

These are legitimate questions.

The answers that are given by the Christians never make any sense, even though the Christians who give those answers seem to be satisfied that their answers do make sense.

Moreover, it's not the least bit disrespectful of Jesus to suggest that he may have indeed been a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who was simply misunderstood and wrongfully portrayed as a demigod in the hearsay rumors of the New Testament.

Some people claim that I'm offending people by even referring to Jesus as a demigod, and that I refer to the gospels as "hearsay rumors". But that's what I believe they are. Besides, Jesus was indeed supposed to have been born of a virgin human mortal. That technically makes Jesus a demigod by definition whether they like it or not. Demigods were a common notion used in the mythologies of those ancient ages. So it's perfectly reasonable to recognize that this is precisely the type of folklore that is being portrayed here.

There's nothing "offensive" in any of this really.

It's only 'drivel' and 'offensive' to people who don't want to hear it. PLUS I wouldn't even bother commenting on it at all if people weren't constantly proselytizing that the Bible is the "Word of God".

If they want to believe that for themselves fine.

But if they want to convince me, they're going to need to be prepared to hear why I'm NOT BUYING IT.



Kill me with a rusty knife if you like, it won't make the truth I speak go away.

Right and why is that? Because you know Christians aren't the monsters you claim they are. You know that Christianity isn't a violent religion, like you claim. You mock a peaceful religion, simply because you know you can do so safely and because it makes you feel better about yourself.

"You know that Christianity isn't a violent religion"
really ???
Jesus died a horrific violent death.....
what about the Crusades..etc...
and if you don't follow the Christian god, you will suffer for eternity in hell

Gee, I want to sign up for this fear trip !!!!

I totally understand where you're coming from and my didn't exempt anyone from any behavior that would belittle or diminish someone else's faith, regardless of where that faith might lay.

I never claimed that Christians are monsters.

I used to be a Christian, and I can assure you that I've never been a monster.

Yes, historically it has been quite violent.

Modern Christianity is very near its death as far as having any actual power anymore. Thank God for that.