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| Topic: Another interesting and logical theory | |
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It states right in the Bible that God created evil. So this little cartoon conversation is a bit absurd?
Isa.45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. So even the biblical God himself confesses to creating evil in his own book. Therefore the biblical God cannot be all-good, for the Bible tells us so. The biblical God creates evil by his own admission. 
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It states right in the Bible that God created evil. So this little cartoon conversation is a bit absurd? Isa.45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. So even the biblical God himself confesses to creating evil in his own book. Therefore the biblical God cannot be all-good, for the Bible tells us so. The biblical God creates evil by his own admission.
God created an angel whom turned evil, thus in the long run he created evil. It does NOT say our father DOES evil. |
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It states right in the Bible that God created evil. So this little cartoon conversation is a bit absurd? Isa.45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. So even the biblical God himself confesses to creating evil in his own book. Therefore the biblical God cannot be all-good, for the Bible tells us so. The biblical God creates evil by his own admission.
God created an angel whom turned evil, thus in the long run he created evil. It does NOT say our father DOES evil. so it was a mistake when he created Lucifer... did he start making angels uglier after that? |
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It states right in the Bible that God created evil. So this little cartoon conversation is a bit absurd? Isa.45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. So even the biblical God himself confesses to creating evil in his own book. Therefore the biblical God cannot be all-good, for the Bible tells us so. The biblical God creates evil by his own admission.
God created an angel whom turned evil, thus in the long run he created evil. It does NOT say our father DOES evil. so it was a mistake when he created Lucifer... did he start making angels uglier after that? LoL, i doupt it. It wasn't just through beauty. Satan seen himself as more powerful and greater then our father as well. Thought he could do the job better and more productive eg., had an ego. |
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this is seriously getting old...believers of a book with a straight face can say,some dude was swallowed by a whale then lived to tell about it,some snake talked and influenced a hoochie to eat fruit,some donkey asked his master why he is beating him,some other hoochie was turned to salt,worship something that has committed mass murder,worship a hippie that claims to be the son of this mass murderer,who he stated you can move mountains through this prayer thingy,also all this happened in a little small area....really i mean really people believe in this s h i t?
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this is seriously getting old...believers of a book with a straight face can say,some dude was swallowed by a whale then lived to tell about it,some snake talked and influenced a hoochie to eat fruit,some donkey asked his master why he is beating him,some other hoochie was turned to salt,worship something that has committed mass murder,worship a hippie that claims to be the son of this mass murderer,who he stated you can move mountains through this prayer thingy,also all this happened in a little small area....really i mean really people believe in this s h i t? I believe in nothing of such. But i do believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father which was sent to save our undeserving souls from vanishing but offering us eternal life through his sacrifice for us :D |
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this is seriously getting old...believers of a book with a straight face can say,some dude was swallowed by a whale then lived to tell about it,some snake talked and influenced a hoochie to eat fruit,some donkey asked his master why he is beating him,some other hoochie was turned to salt,worship something that has committed mass murder,worship a hippie that claims to be the son of this mass murderer,who he stated you can move mountains through this prayer thingy,also all this happened in a little small area....really i mean really people believe in this s h i t? I am impressed at least u have some knowledge of the bible whether u believe it or not.. Knowledge is key to life..Shalom...Miles 
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http://carm.org/does-god-create-evil
Does God create evil? Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject. First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV. Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena. "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7). Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example, "And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11). "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6). Also, take note that Isaiah is presenting contrasts. He speaks of "light" and "darkness," "well being" and "calamity." The word "well-being" in the Hebrew is the word for 'peace,' "Shalome." So, in the context, we are seeing two sets of opposites: Light and dark, peace and non-peace, or well being and calamity. The "evil" that is spoken of is not ontological evil, but the evil experienced by people in the form of calamity. From the above two verses (Exodus 4:11; Amos 3:6) we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people. Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people. Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil. “The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4). "Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13). We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually the verse is speaking of calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or calamity. |
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RKISIT wrote:
this is seriously getting old...believers of a book with a straight face can say,some dude was swallowed by a whale then lived to tell about it,some snake talked and influenced a hoochie to eat fruit,some donkey asked his master why he is beating him,some other hoochie was turned to salt,worship something that has committed mass murder,worship a hippie that claims to be the son of this mass murderer,who he stated you can move mountains through this prayer thingy,also all this happened in a little small area....really i mean really people believe in this s h i t? Cowboy replied: I believe in nothing of such. But i do believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father which was sent to save our undeserving souls from vanishing but offering us eternal life through his sacrifice for us :D So in other words, you reject the parts of the Bible that you don't care for and only accept the ideas that appeal to you. I guess that's pretty cool. A lot of religions work that way, Wicca, Buddhism, and many others. What I wonder is why you feel that you are just an undeserving soul? I realize that you're probably just say that we are all undeserving. However, that merely takes your negative view of yourself and pushes it onto everyone else. Also, to claim that all souls are undeserving suggests that our creator can only create undeserving fools. That doesn't say much for the creator either. I personally see no reason to place my faith in a myth whose main premise is that I'm an undeserving soul and I have no choice in the matter too boot. Even from a logical point of view such a premise is insane, because if I have no choice in my unworthiness then clearly I can't be responsible for being in that predicament. So it seems like a truly hopeless religion IMHO. Cowboy wrote:
LoL, i doupt it. It wasn't just through beauty. Satan seen himself as more powerful and greater then our father as well. Thought he could do the job better and more productive eg., had an ego. If you recognize that ego is the problem then you should definitely study Buddhism because they have that down to a science. But clearly it can't be just a sense of ego. No one has a greater ego than the Biblical God. He maims and murders anyone who merely refuses to believe that he's the head honcho. Talk about an ego, the Biblical God's ego trumps every ego in the history of all mankind. You continually defend his "right" to have a big ego and do whatever he likes simply because he is the creator and pervader of all things. However, if that position were Satan's then you'd have to defend Satan's ego on the same grounds. Being an all-powerful entity doesn't automatically make an entity righteous. Just because an entity happens to be in a position where no one else has the power to tell it what to doesn't automatically justify it's actions. The Biblical God is like an immature spoiled brat who never learned how to respect anything but it's own ego. So if having an ego is what makes a soul unworthy then the Biblical God would be the most unworthy soul around. |
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Thomas3474 wrote:
We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually the verse is speaking of calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or calamity. The Biblical God has no morals at all. He is the greatest "sinner" of all time by his very own standards of what constitutes "sin". Greek mythology has more merit than the biblical mythology, because at least in Greek mythology Zeus was not proclaimed to be supremely moral. If Zeus didn't like the way you looked at him he could strike you into oblivion with a lightening bolt and that's just too bad. Zeus is allowed to do whatever he wants because he has no one to answer to. However, the biblical God does not enjoy this luxury. The biblical God must do as the authors of the bible demand. And since they demand that God is righteous, then God cannot be unrighteous for if he defies the commandments of the biblical authors he no longer fits their description and therefore cannot be the God they are speaking of. Do you see how it works? When mankind invents a God that God must conform to the whims of the men who created it. The problem with the biblical God is that the authors painted themselves into a corner. They tried to invent a God who was all-righteous, but then have that God doing all many of unrighteous things. This is how we know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the biblical mythology is indeed nothing more than a poorly created image of God by man. |
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http://carm.org/does-god-create-evil Does God create evil? Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 (Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" Is God really the one who created evil? To answer the question we must first look at how the word for evil, "rah," is used in the Bible, examine the context of the Isaiah 45:7 passage, and look at other passages on the same subject. First of all, the Hebrew word for evil, "rah," is used in many different ways in the Bible. In the KJV Bible it occurs 663 times. 431 times it is translated as "evil." The other 232 times it is translated as "wicked," "bad," "hurt," "harm," "ill," "sorrow," "mischief," "displeased," "adversity," "affliction," "trouble," "calamity," "grievous," "misery," and "trouble." So we can see that the word does not require that it be translated as "evil." This is why different Bibles translate this verse differently. It is translated as "calamity" by the NASB and NKJV; "disaster" by the NIV; and "woe" by the RSV. Second, the context of the verse is speaking of natural phenomena. "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these," (Isaiah 45:5-7). Notice that the context of the verse is dealing with who God is, that it is God who speaks of natural phenomena (sun, light, dark), and it is God who is able to cause "well-being" as well as "calamity." Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example, "And the Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?" (Exodus 4:11). "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6). Also, take note that Isaiah is presenting contrasts. He speaks of "light" and "darkness," "well being" and "calamity." The word "well-being" in the Hebrew is the word for 'peace,' "Shalome." So, in the context, we are seeing two sets of opposites: Light and dark, peace and non-peace, or well being and calamity. The "evil" that is spoken of is not ontological evil, but the evil experienced by people in the form of calamity. From the above two verses (Exodus 4:11; Amos 3:6) we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people. Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people. Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil. “The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He," (Deut. 32:4). "Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor," (Hab. 1:13). We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually the verse is speaking of calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or calamity. 'Not one jot or tittle'. Yet the KJV (and many, many others) contain a plethora of 'jots' and tittles'. As such they are suspect by that very fact. |
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'Not one jot or tittle'. Yet the KJV (and many, many others) contain a plethora of 'jots' and tittles'. As such they are suspect by that very fact. Truly, if we are going to create God by choosing which jots and tittles we prefer then all mythologies and creation legends become game. I'm all for that. 
Where the problem comes in is when we choose a particular set of jots and tittles and call that the "Word of God" and begin to defend it as such claiming that those who do not agree with our choice of jots and tittles is the enemy of God! 
That's when religion becomes egotistical. Which, as Cowboy has correctly recognized, is necessarily the very source of all human 'evil'. Assuming, of course, that we don't count disease, natural disasters, horrific accidents, etc, as constituting 'evil'. However, once we recognize that our choice of jots and tittles corresponds precisely to our choice of how we perceive God, then we should choose are jots and tittles very carefully. This is why I have ultimately turned to the mythologies of the Goddess and even of the Fairies as being very worthy jots and tittles written by the hands and minds of the children of this universe. I also choose the most positive jots and tittles among those. If I am going to create God the least I can do is create God in a way that is worthy of myself as well as being worthy of my creation. |
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RKISIT wrote:
this is seriously getting old...believers of a book with a straight face can say,some dude was swallowed by a whale then lived to tell about it,some snake talked and influenced a hoochie to eat fruit,some donkey asked his master why he is beating him,some other hoochie was turned to salt,worship something that has committed mass murder,worship a hippie that claims to be the son of this mass murderer,who he stated you can move mountains through this prayer thingy,also all this happened in a little small area....really i mean really people believe in this s h i t? Cowboy replied: I believe in nothing of such. But i do believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten child of our father which was sent to save our undeserving souls from vanishing but offering us eternal life through his sacrifice for us :D So in other words, you reject the parts of the Bible that you don't care for and only accept the ideas that appeal to you. I guess that's pretty cool. A lot of religions work that way, Wicca, Buddhism, and many others. What I wonder is why you feel that you are just an undeserving soul? I realize that you're probably just say that we are all undeserving. However, that merely takes your negative view of yourself and pushes it onto everyone else. Also, to claim that all souls are undeserving suggests that our creator can only create undeserving fools. That doesn't say much for the creator either. I personally see no reason to place my faith in a myth whose main premise is that I'm an undeserving soul and I have no choice in the matter too boot. Even from a logical point of view such a premise is insane, because if I have no choice in my unworthiness then clearly I can't be responsible for being in that predicament. So it seems like a truly hopeless religion IMHO. Cowboy wrote:
LoL, i doupt it. It wasn't just through beauty. Satan seen himself as more powerful and greater then our father as well. Thought he could do the job better and more productive eg., had an ego. If you recognize that ego is the problem then you should definitely study Buddhism because they have that down to a science. But clearly it can't be just a sense of ego. No one has a greater ego than the Biblical God. He maims and murders anyone who merely refuses to believe that he's the head honcho. Talk about an ego, the Biblical God's ego trumps every ego in the history of all mankind. You continually defend his "right" to have a big ego and do whatever he likes simply because he is the creator and pervader of all things. However, if that position were Satan's then you'd have to defend Satan's ego on the same grounds. Being an all-powerful entity doesn't automatically make an entity righteous. Just because an entity happens to be in a position where no one else has the power to tell it what to doesn't automatically justify it's actions. The Biblical God is like an immature spoiled brat who never learned how to respect anything but it's own ego. So if having an ego is what makes a soul unworthy then the Biblical God would be the most unworthy soul around. ===================================== So in other words, you reject the parts of the Bible that you don't care for and only accept the ideas that appeal to you. I guess that's pretty cool. A lot of religions work that way, Wicca, Buddhism, and many others. ===================================== No I believe in nothing as such as you spoke of. Nothing about any whale or anything. I believe in the only thing that is exact and true in this world, the bible. All other things can change tomorrow. ----------------------------------------- ================================== If you recognize that ego is the problem then you should definitely study Buddhism because they have that down to a science. But clearly it can't be just a sense of ego. No one has a greater ego than the Biblical God. He maims and murders anyone who merely refuses to believe that he's the head honcho. Talk about an ego, the Biblical God's ego trumps every ego in the history of all mankind. =================================== God murders no one. Jesus gives a righteous judgement. Murder is unjustifiable taking of someone's life. The judge we will receive is righteous and justifiable, thus not murdering. --------------------------------------- |
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Thomas3474 wrote:
We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word "rah" (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually the verse is speaking of calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster or calamity. The Biblical God has no morals at all. He is the greatest "sinner" of all time by his very own standards of what constitutes "sin". Greek mythology has more merit than the biblical mythology, because at least in Greek mythology Zeus was not proclaimed to be supremely moral. If Zeus didn't like the way you looked at him he could strike you into oblivion with a lightening bolt and that's just too bad. Zeus is allowed to do whatever he wants because he has no one to answer to. However, the biblical God does not enjoy this luxury. The biblical God must do as the authors of the bible demand. And since they demand that God is righteous, then God cannot be unrighteous for if he defies the commandments of the biblical authors he no longer fits their description and therefore cannot be the God they are speaking of. Do you see how it works? When mankind invents a God that God must conform to the whims of the men who created it. The problem with the biblical God is that the authors painted themselves into a corner. They tried to invent a God who was all-righteous, but then have that God doing all many of unrighteous things. This is how we know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the biblical mythology is indeed nothing more than a poorly created image of God by man. ========================================== The problem with the biblical God is that the authors painted themselves into a corner. They tried to invent a God who was all-righteous, but then have that God doing all many of unrighteous things. =========================================== Our father does nothing unrighteous. Every judgement God makes is a righteous judgement. |
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'No I believe in nothing as such as you spoke of. Nothing about any whale or anything. I believe in the only thing that is exact and true in this world, the bible. All other things can change tomorrow.
----------------------------------------- ' OK... so you believe that you may change a 'jot' or 'tittle' by removeing the 'whale' story... yet the book you reference does say not one 'jot' or 'tittle' may be changed... and further states that nothing may be added or taken away. Given your statement above... How can you hold it so dear if you are willing to 'violate' it? |
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'No I believe in nothing as such as you spoke of. Nothing about any whale or anything. I believe in the only thing that is exact and true in this world, the bible. All other things can change tomorrow. ----------------------------------------- ' OK... so you believe that you may change a 'jot' or 'tittle' by removeing the 'whale' story... yet the book you reference does say not one 'jot' or 'tittle' may be changed... and further states that nothing may be added or taken away. Given your statement above... How can you hold it so dear if you are willing to 'violate' it? I know of nothing about a guy being eat'n by a whale and living to tell about it. Not saying it's not in there, just I know not of what you speak. I know of a child's story about a man being eat'n by a wale and telling about it, but I know nothing of such in the bible. |
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No I believe in nothing as such as you spoke of. Nothing about any whale or anything. I believe in the only thing that is exact and true in this world, the bible. All other things can change tomorrow. But it has already been shown that the Bible clearly states that God creates evil. You reject these biblical words by claiming that the Bible is not exact and that it is filled with errors. So you speak with forked tongue my friend. If you ever get your tangled web of deceit untangled come back and let us know. You preach religious bigotry and hatred toward all those who disagree with your ego. In the meantime I see no reason to believe your obvious lies. |
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No I believe in nothing as such as you spoke of. Nothing about any whale or anything. I believe in the only thing that is exact and true in this world, the bible. All other things can change tomorrow. But it has already been shown that the Bible clearly states that God creates evil. You reject these biblical words by claiming that the Bible is not exact and that it is filled with errors. So you speak with forked tongue my friend. If you ever get your tangled web of deceit untangled come back and let us know. You preach religious bigotry and hatred toward all those who disagree with your ego. In the meantime I see no reason to believe your obvious lies. ========================================= But it has already been shown that the Bible clearly states that God creates evil. ========================================= Yes God created everything. All i stated in previous discussions is God doesn't DO evil, he doesn't do actions of that which are evil. God created everything... good, bad, angelic, evil, ying yang, EVERYTHING. Without evil in the world we would be in paradise eg. Life would then be like garden of Eden. Which we were kicked out of for disobedience, thus we are punished with having pain. And since pain is a reaction to an action the original action would then be evil causing the effect of pain. -------------------------------------------------- ========================================= You reject these biblical words by claiming that the Bible is not exact and that it is filled with errors ========================================= The bible has no errors. ---------------------------------------------------- ========================================= If you ever get your tangled web of deceit untangled come back and let us know. You preach religious bigotry and hatred toward all those who disagree with your ego. ========================================== I speak of no hatred towards anything. I only speak of love, forgiveness, and caring. |
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The bible has no errors. In that case then God creates evil by his own proclamation because the Bible tells us so. The only way that it can be wrong is if it is in ERROR. You can't have your cake and eat it too Cowboy. 
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