I can't believe the T-bagger supporters deny this...too funny. Listen to these stirred up and disturbed people shouting down another THM...egads, remember last summer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPbs0ozEVBc

Comment from the video page:

"These are not reasonable people we are dealing with. They don't know what they are shouting about. They've absorbed the (affected) rage from their radios and TVs. The town hall idea is a good one, but there is a simple reason why they are bearing no fruit: loud, misinformed fools who shrug off all the rules of civil discourse simply in order to be the loudest voice in the room. A strong moderator is an absolute necessity."

POX, AM Radio and T-bag candidates are all over fear mongering...Sharon Angle said this: "If we don't win with our votes then we have to consider a 2nd Ammendment Remedy"...so they are not only fear mongering they are inciting violence if they do not get their way.

is not the very word "fearmongering", being used in the context of "fearing these that march", so trying to prevent them and hating them for it, creating fearmongering itself, lol...

who gives a **** if they march?

so what?

shall we spank them all on their nude behinds in public square?

that is free speech?

a free society doth not restrict the EQUAL VOICE OF ALL TO SPEAK?

in whatever way they so choose, as long as they do not inflict bodily harm on other people's?

that is democracy?

so who actually seeks to preserve democracy, that wants them shut-up?

the more there march was embraced by Obama, the less hate energy would be created?

what human brain has come to be so full of itself, that it wishes to literally squash the voice of other's, thinking itself so wise and that it should control other's?

please...

****ing commi bastards, who would violate the very premise of freedom, and embrace suppression and restriction's on the voice of all as equal to be heard.

one should be PROUD that these march thru the street's, as such show's WE ARE STILL FREE, at least for now.

that is the same democratic process that has been occuring since the inception of America?

so why is it deemed as cause to deem other's as worthless?

these seem to be the more foul minded, whom would embrace power, just to shut up their neighbor.

if one does not like nor appreciate the freedom to speak and express oneself in this country, perhaps china would be a better bet, where many are mowed down with gunfire if they dissent dictatorerous policies.

No he ran on the idea of change. He said he would bring the troops home. He didn't. He said he would fix the economy. He didn't. He said he would get rid of don't ask do t tell he didn't.

Not to mention many people that supported HCR thought we were going to have a gov run program like Canada or japan.

I never heard him claim he could fix the economy, nor detail the health care reform except to say he wanted everyone to be covered,

he did run on a goal of bringing the troops home and repealing dont ask which are BOTH issues that he actually HAS made significant effort toward but cannot make happen by himself

MiddleEarthling

"We pay taxes and expect a fair, just and a well run system."

Government is, and has been for some time, the largest single entity within our system. Its size has reachd the point where (in order to survive at its current level of power) it MUST take from its citizens that which we all work so hard for and in the process remove from us the power we actually hold within the system (government by the people).

Fair, just and well run only covers what the government should be. What our current government is be far different. National Government should only be concerned with defense of the nation, administration of justice (by constitution) for the citizens, and oversight of the free market to insure just products and wages. (any needed 'government' beyond that should be delt with at the local community level - as each community needs).

Anything else that various governmental agencies have sprung up to 'control' simply adds to the expense of government and an increase in taxation to 'fund' those 'agencies'.

The larger the system the further from 'well run' it will become and the greater will be the 'expenditures' necessary to allow it to continue to be inefficent.

Taxes to the individual in a 'well run' republic should never exceed 10%.

Unemployment is part of the economy. He promised to create all these jobs. Dont tell me you didn't hear that.

Do you even remember what we are debating about? That people don't support this Bill. Yea he didn't detail it because he didn't know how it would end up. Sure some people liked the idea of HCR but not the bill that came out.

My point is that he can be voted in by 21% percent of the population and not all that population could like HCR bill so it is easy to believe that a lot of people in the US are unhappy with it. I am not trying to paint him as good or bad. My point was lots of people dont like this bill and some dont like it because they don't like the idea of the government "knowing whats best for us." Which you called bs on in my original post.

Yes the costs are out of control. That's why we need to end the Dippic's tax cuts for the top 2% that take about 45% of the earnings...make them pay taxes again. the other 98% got a tax break last year and there's no plans to increase their taxes...dispite the rhetoric being promoted by RW speak.

There are many areas that need improvement. HC costs are out of control and we use little or no prevention health wise in this country. For example teen alcohol use alone costs taxpayers $60 billion a year while the Alcohol Indutry enjoys about $20 billion in profits. Remember this does not include the long term costs of addiction/incarceration due to this epidemic. Unfortunately we allow the AI to sell drugs with no Drug Facts labels and allow them to advetise as if their drug is "socially acceptable"...It's a mess!

In all, we need smarter government as well. Allowing industries to pervert our system for their profits has to be ended. Look up Corporate Socialism to fully understand the crisis.

PS, Sure "republic" but we operate as a democracy...for now.

actually, 28 percent of the VOTING AGE population voted for him,,but thats besides the point


I called BOLOGNA on this statement
'I think the point is he is doing things politicians want and not what people want'

common sense dictates that ALOT of people wont like something when that group consists of hundreds of millions, but my point was he is working towards the things he said he would when I and those other 1 in four people voted him in, so he is not doing what EVERYONE wants but he is doing what (some)people want

and I dont recall him saying he would 'fix' the economy although I do recall him giving some ideas of what NEEDED to happen for the economy to recover

Yes but he is not doing what the majority wants. Politicians don't listen to people much. Maybe they do around election time but most of the year they dont. I am lucky to not currently be residing in the US and I am currently paying 3% income tax. Woo Hoo!

he is NEITHER placating politicians(many of whom oppose him) , nor ignoring what people want

I happen to believe he is making the best choices he can with the information HE has(which is much different than what the MAJORITY might think they know)



however, when it comes to some of the tough decisions, I happen to believe that it would be suicide to let the easily swayed and undereducated(on the scope of the issues) majority call those shots

if there is true "equal" representation, as is the essence of any free society, than WHOM is to be deemed as not having just merit?

whom shall be deemed as less educated?

whom shall be deemed an idiot?

whom shall be deemed as having no whorthwhile data to provide?

whom shall be deemed as irrelevant?

for the first move toward defining any of these, ELIMINATE EQUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLES AS ONE BODY EQUALLY VALUED?

if there is first ONE deemed less, by way of some NEGATIVE ASSERATION ABOUT THEM, then can their be "equal respresentation"?

this only describe in essence what be already happening amoungst humankind, for does not each one, within it's social economic class, and within it's circle of same belief, and within the same color group, and within the same sexual inclination group, and within the same past experience group, EACH DEEM OUTSIDE DATA OR VOICES AS IRRELEVANT, or as less relevant to it's own 'DATA BANK CALLED ITSELF', this then creating the overwhelming urge to deem any "outside data", as having NO GOOD INFORMATION TO OFFER?

or even so much as to say, having no 'intelligence', worthy to be considered?

how can it be denied, that the human inclination is to do just this, in all cases, at all times, for any outside of it's each one's own "inner circle"?

so, in reality, no matter what the "belief" be in the mind, there HAS NEVER BEEN TRUE REPRESENTATION of ALL HUMAN'S, YET IN HUMAN CIVILIZATION?

the more small minded worded, such as lables as definer's of other human's, that be embraced as some sort of self superiority, than the less of equal representation, and the more that NO TRUE REPRESENTATION can be created for the people?

so to believe there is now already, any true representation, would obscure or hide any true way, or knowing, of now to creating such into existence?

can true equal, which be true representation of all, be attained?

only if each voive be not discriminated against, via some self inclination to label other's as stupid, meaningless, mean, vile, mentaly challenged, ridiculous, adsurd, crazy, abnormal, worthwhile, less, dumb...

for this effectively automatically deem "information or voice", past that secopnd in time, as COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT?

each one of these "DEFINER'S", left within the mind as valid, create in reality the first root of self bias, some growing this into what we call racism, bigotry, "opposite class hate", and all the like's that human civilization hath created itself?

there is no doubt, that if there be ONE, coming from out of all, from all the past decades, that exist now, that hath the mental prowess, forward thinking, adapting skills, that wishes to create collective intelligence amoung all, to change such matter's as have existed in all past days, than Obama hath most that potential.

The costs are out of control because government is sucking down to large a percentage of earnings. Shrink it down to size and there is no need for large 'funding' mandates or false 'robin hood'retoric.

My parents taught me about alcohol. (no taxpayer funded interference there). The government does not 'allow' industries to 'prevert' our system. Those in power 'actively' pursure laws which aid the portions of business that bring those in power profit. Business can not 'pervert' a system that does not assist in the perversion.

When we allow persons to 'sit' in seats of power for years upon years they will become corrupted by the power.
(my parents taught me that also).

As far as your 'teen alcohol' example... That is best handled at local comunity levels. (each community has it to a differing degree).

Okay, how about "exploit" (with money) our representatives? Bottom line is OUR representations have been negated by the greedy corporations. Better?

And on the teen drinking thing I used as an example....The states can't regulate the product alcohol...that's got to come from the FDA, the CDC, and the ATF&E.

Here's how Oklahoma is dealing with it..see my comments at the end of the news story. I have done my homework on this and met with several state officials on this matter...they could care less.

http://speakoklahoma.freeforums.org/children-of-incarcerated-oklahomans-pay-heavy-price-t5.html

Connect the dots..

Thanks

Well what do you call it when about half the nation strongly apposes a bill and it gets passed? I don't call it listening to the people. I am not saying that he listens to or doesn't listen to politicians. I am saying that also those politicians don't listen to their people either.

Oh and before he was president he supported the bridge to nowhere over helping Katrina victims so he did his share of pork barreling. Not that I saying he is a pad politician.. they are just all the same IMO.

when does obama ever listen to the people? he just what he wants, then tries smooth it by talking

The Tea Party is moving forward, and more & more people are joining.
Its better join something that opposes government, than it is to kiss the govts. azz and let them run you over.

Hello, David.

No, it is not causing fear. It is to identify what is being used. I fear not the march. I fear not the words. I don't want others to fear the words. I want others to know the method and why the method is used. So they can be unafraid and view the message from a place of calm and logic.

When a power play is made by any party wishing to alter others states of mind the method used is almost if not more important than the message.

Fear mongering is used when the party believes the message alone will not accomplish what they want it to so they must create fear in people to motivate the result.

Who says?

The problem is that health care reform was what he got voted in on. And the false information that people were using to write to the government and complain about were not true so the government could not fix those issues since they didn't exist in the health care bill.

The majority wanted health care reform.
They wanted the same changes that Obama wanted.

Until the propaganda machine started telling lies.
Even then those who had a level head still wanted it.

I wrote in to my representative to tell them to keep working at the health care reform bill because it was needed.

So I wonder how many letter they got like mine.

Ha ha i like this. When people act is if they know the reason why 63-67 million people voted for the guy. Just because a politician has opinions and you vote for him doesn't mean you support all his opinions. It means you support some of them more than his opponent. I would argue some people just didn't like Bush and saw McCain as Bush 2.0 and so voted for Obama no matter what his stand was.

I also wouldn't call 67 million out of over 307 the majority even if every single person supported HC which there is no way to prove and is just silly to think that. Not to mention the idea of HC can be anything, but once the bill came around people were not pleased.

I also would argue that some people thought it would be government run HC like canada or japan and not just government set standards.