Is God REALLY going to help me in my time of crisis. Putting faith into something that you have never seen but only heard about is kind of hard to do.

We don't really know what is real and what is fake in the bible.

Some foolish men declare that a creator made the world. The doctrine that the world was created is ill advised and should be rejected. If God created the world, where was he before the creation? If you say he was transcendent then and needed no support, where is he now? How could God have made this world without any raw material? If you say that he made this first, and then the world, you are faced with an endless regression. If you declare that this raw material arose naturally you fall into another fallacy, For the whole universe might thus have been its own creator, and have arisen quite naturally. If God created the world by an act of his own will, without any raw material, then it is just his will and nothing else — and who will believe this silly nonsense? If he is ever perfect and complete, how could the will to create have arisen in him? If, on the other hand, he is not perfect, he could no more create the universe than a potter could. If he is form-less, action-less and all-embracing, how could he have created the world? Such a soul, devoid of all morality, would have no desire to create anything. If he is perfect, he does not strive for the three aims of man, so what advantage would he gain by creating the universe? If you say that he created to no purpose because it was his nature to do so, then God is pointless. If he created in some kind of sport, it was the sport of a foolish child, leading to trouble. If he created because of the karma of embodied beings [acquired in a previous creation] He is not the Almighty Lord, but subordinate to something else. If out of love for living beings and need of them he made the world, why did he not take creation wholly blissful free from misfortune? If he were transcendent he would not create, for he would be free: Nor if involved in transmigration, for then he would not be almighty. Thus the doctrine that the world was created by God makes no sense at all, And God commits great sin in slaying the children whom he himself created. If you say that he slays only to destroy evil beings, why did he create such beings in the first place? Good men should combat the believer in divine creation, maddened by an evil doctrine. Know that the world is uncreated, as time itself is, without beginning or end, and is based on the principles, life and rest. Uncreated and indestructible, it endures under the compulsion of its own nature.

The world was created by our father. Even with the diseases and disasters that happen here naturally. This is punishment of what man did when they disobeyed God and we were kicked out of the garden of eden. If there was no diseases or any other kinds of troubles, this would be pretty much just like eden.... now what kind of punishment for our disobedience would that be? None, so that is why we have that form of things on this earth.

This whole idea that all of mankind has been purposefully and knowingly disobedient to some "Heavenly Father" is utterly absurd. Yet this is precisely what these religions demand must be true, otherwise they make no sense at all.

But it's crystal clear that this fundamental premise cannot possibly be true.

Why?

Well it should be blatantly obvious. People who do not even believe in the Biblical God cannot possibly be purposefully and knowingly disobedient because they don't even recognize the authority of the ancient Hebrews to "Speak for God". And supposedly "all-wise" God would be wise enough to recognize the difference between "purposeful and knowing disobedience" and mere non-believe that the Hebrews speak of God.

Thus religion cannot possibly be true. It's necessarily a falsehood.

Moreover, if you look at the Canaanites, and Egyptians, they both "believed" in 'Gods'. And they also believe that they were doing "God's Will". Therefore in their minds and in their hearts, they were indeed "Worshiping and Serving GOD". If they were mistaken and "believed" in a "false God" then this would not constitute purposeful and knowing disobedience anyway. It would simply constitute a misunderstanding which could ultimately only be the fault of any true creator.

I've heard many Christians "defend" God's behavior toward the Canaanites by simply saying, "But the Canaanites were sacrifices babies to the Gods". Well DUH?

If the Canaanites believed that this is what God wanted then they were indeed doing their very BEST to appease God and be OBEDIENCE.

The only way that Christianity could be true, is if the Canaanites KNEW that they were indeed disobeying the only TRUE creator in favor of worshiping totally "false Gods" that they KNEW didn't really exist. But that's utterly absurd.

You can't have people "disobeying" the Biblical God by "accident" without fully realizing that they are indeed purposefully and knowingly "disobeying" their true creator. That is itself an absurd notion.

The same thing is true of atheists. If a person simply doesn't believe that there is sufficient reason to even believe in a God, that cannot be construed as purposeful and knowing disobedience. Non-belief is not disobedience. You don't need to be an "all-wise" God to realize this simple fact.

Those nasty men who wrote this brainwashing mythology are the people who have committed the most dastardly of crimes by claiming to speak for a God that they themselves clearly MADE UP!

The story simply doesn't wash. All atheists would automatically be completely free of any "sin" because it would be impossible for them to "sin". Sin is nothing more than "disobedience of God", but if an atheist doesn't even believe that any such God exists then they cannot disobey that God, and therefore they cannot sin.

So based on this religion all atheists are necessarily FREE of any and all sin. For the creator to be mean to these people in any way would clearly show that the creator himself is a totally unrighteous and unworthy creator.

It would be entirely the responsibility of the creator to make himself known to these non-believers in no uncertain terms, before it would even make sense for him to demand that they obey him.

A God who refuses to make himself known, yet simultaneously demands to be obeyed is an oxymoron. Such a God wouldn't have the wisdom of an amoeba. If you want to give credit to God for being WISE then you must do so. You can't have this God doing utterly absurd and idiotic things and simultaneously claim that its "All-Wise". It just doesn't work.

It's just a very poorly thought-out mythology is all.

monsters exist. i define a murderer as non-human. non-people. seeing them as part of god would disable my ability to fight them.

faith empowers people. i will not tie my hands by discarding it.

We can not know what we can not see. And iam a see it to believe it type. bit of a skeptic been too way too many churches and if there was only one god then why are there so many religions.

and in my opinion i think some ruler way back when made up a bunch of crap just to keep it's people in line and of course one of the many beautiful characteristics about being human is that we are extremely naive and ignorant.

Matthew 10:32-33
32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

You have all right to think that my friend, it's your choice.

Think what?

You've just confirmed my point. You quoted the writings of some guy named Matthew. There's no reason why I should believe that Matthew speaks for God anymore than Joe Shmoe

I'm perfectly correct in what I say. No "God" has ever made itself known to me directly and therefore it's impossible for me to deny "God " or to disobey God directly. At the very best, all I can do is take some mortal man's word that he speaks for God.

Also, the statements you've quoted suggest that I must "confess" Jesus before men. But that too is impossible. I cannot "confess" to know that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God because to do so would be an outright LIE. The FACTis that I have no way of knowing whether Jesus might have been the only begotten son of God or not.

Moreover, all of the information I have about Jesus (even information that comes from the Bible itself) indicates to me that Jesus could not possibly have been the Only Begotten Son of Yahweh. Therefore, for me to even pretend to know that he was would require that I lie.

Are you suggesting that your biblical God approves of lying?

It's impossible for me to "confess" to know something I cannot possibly know. Therefore this very mythology demands that I become a liar in order to be accepted by this supposed "god".

Therefore this mythology must necessarily be false. No genuinely wise and righteous God would ever demand that people lie in order to be accepted by this God.

This mythology can only be the words of unscrupulous men who are using seriously devious brainwashing schemes to try to scare people into believing in that these authors speak for God.

If anyone is doing something truly heinous it is the authors of these scriptures.

It's not our fathers job to seek us, it's our job to seek our father.

It benefits our father none for us to believe or follow his words.

It's ALL for us, nothing of it is for our father my friend.

And our father does reveal himself to those that seek him. All you have to do is take the first step, and you will see our father right in front of you.

Well, once again you've got a delinquent Fatherly Figure on your hands.

Besides, it's the Biblical God who is jealous, not us. Remember?

He's the one who has a jealously problem, not us.



Well, like Lobotomy59 pointed out, you've got a purposeless God then.



The biblical picture is neither for us, nor for God, it's just a very poorly written brainwashing scheme to try to control the masses is all. It's an abomination of both the creator and the created.



I've taken far more steps that you can ever imagine. I've studied religions for over twice as many years as you've even been alive on this planet.

I know that the Hebrew mythology is clearly false. The Biblical God that they portray is neither consistent, nor wise, nor powerful, nor anything.

Finally, and this is an all-important concept that you can't seem to grasp. If it's not important to God that we find him, then why should it be important to you?

If God is so bent on playing Hide-and-Seek with me, then why are you trying to be a spoil-sport and ruin God's GAME PLAN?

As far as I can see you have no trust in God at all. You don't trust God to 'save' anyone. In fact, you even totally deny that God cares enough about people to even bother saving anyone.

Yet, look at you! You're always posting about how much you care about others that you want to be sure everyone knows how to get to God. You seem to care more about the fate of human souls than God does.

What does that say about your God?

Cowboy cares more about the fate of human souls than does God?

That would make you the compassionate superior to your very own God.

That's just another oxymoron.

You either TRUST God, or you don't. And if you TRUST God to do what's right then you have absolutely no need to try to convince anyone that God exists. If God's own book is unconvincing then why should anyone believe you?

I've read the Bible more times than I even care to remember. I'm totally convinced that it is an inept story. In fact, it really wasn't until I learned about Mahayana Buddhism that I truly understood what Jesus was actually teaching. It's a shame that he was crucified for that. It's a far bigger shame that his crucifixion ended up having him turned into a dead monster that is continually used to this very day to support the very things that Jesus himself renounced.

Well, once again you've got a delinquent Fatherly Figure on your hands.

Besides, it's the Biblical God who is jealous, not us. Remember?

He's the one who has a jealously problem, not us.



Well, like Lobotomy59 pointed out, you've got a purposeless God then.



The biblical picture is neither for us, nor for God, it's just a very poorly written brainwashing scheme to try to control the masses is all. It's an abomination of both the creator and the created.



I've taken far more steps that you can ever imagine. I've studied religions for over twice as many years as you've even been alive on this planet.

I know that the Hebrew mythology is clearly false. The Biblical God that they portray is neither consistent, nor wise, nor powerful, nor anything.

Finally, and this is an all-important concept that you can't seem to grasp. If it's not important to God that we find him, then why should it be important to you?

If God is so bent on playing Hide-and-Seek with me, then why are you trying to be a spoil-sport and ruin God's GAME PLAN?

As far as I can see you have no trust in God at all. You don't trust God to 'save' anyone. In fact, you even totally deny that God cares enough about people to even bother saving anyone.

Yet, look at you! You're always posting about how much you care about others that you want to be sure everyone knows how to get to God. You seem to care more about the fate of human souls than God does.

What does that say about your God?

Cowboy cares more about the fate of human souls than does God?

That would make you the compassionate superior to your very own God.

That's just another oxymoron.

You either TRUST God, or you don't. And if you TRUST God to do what's right then you have absolutely no need to try to convince anyone that God exists. If God's own book is unconvincing then why should anyone believe you?

I've read the Bible more times than I even care to remember. I'm totally convinced that it is an inept story. In fact, it really wasn't until I learned about Mahayana Buddhism that I truly understood what Jesus was actually teaching. It's a shame that he was crucified for that. It's a far bigger shame that his crucifixion ended up having him turned into a dead monster that is continually used to this very day to support the very things that Jesus himself renounced.

"I know that the Hebrew mythology is clearly false. The Biblical God that they portray is neither consistent, nor wise, nor powerful, nor anything. "

MANY PEOPLE have told me it is inconsistent, BUT they never seem to be able to show me any inconsistencies that are truly inconsistent....... maybe you wanna try?

And keep in mind you can NOT intertwine old and new testament. Of course the laws from each will be different..... they are different set of laws. The old testament was fulfilled so we were given the new testament. So please i ask that you please give some inconsistencies.

You're already in denial.

You already demand that the doctrine you worship is inconsistent between the New and Old Testament.

So you're obviously already well aware of the greatest inconsistency of all.

So you reject this inconsistency and demand more.


I've already given you inconsistencies in both the New and the Old Testament.

In the Old Testament you have Adam and Eve learning of the knowledge of good and evil, yet they are being portrayed, as being Guilty of having committed an evil act by eating this magical fruit in the first place.

Well, that's an inconsistency right there. If they did not know the difference between Good and Evil before having eating the fruit from this tree, then they could not have known that to eat this fruit would have and "evil" act. Therefore they could have only committed this act in pure innocence.

So the very story of the so-called "Fall from Grace" is an oxymoron in itself. They could not have known that to "disobey" God constitutes an "evil act". For if they had already known that, then they would already have the knowledge of "Good and Evil".

It's pretty simple. To obey God is Good, to disobey God is Evil. That's basically the only difference between "good" and "evil". Therefore Adam and Eve could not be "guilty" of having committed a "sin" before they even knew what the term means!

~~~

In the New Testament Jesus supposedly says, "I and the Father are one"

But then in that same book of John he also goes on to say:

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

So there's an inconsistency too. In one breath Jesus claims that he and the Father are one. In the next breath, he separates himself from the Father and claims that the Father does his own judging.

Personally I believe that Jesus might have actually stated something along the lines of the first sentence, but the second sentence was most likely a total fabrication by John, IMHO.

This is just one example, but this is done throughout the New Testament, Jesus prays to the "Father" as well, which also flies in the face of the idea that He and the Father are one. Why would he bother praying to himself if He and the Father are one?

There are tons of inconsistencies in the Bible.

I've pointed out many of them to you, but you simply refuse to acknowledge them. You seem to prefer to remain in denial.

I personally like the one in the Old Testament where God repeatedly requests the burnt offerings throughout most of the early books of the Bible, but then later in Isaiah (I think), God asks of the people, "Why do you offer me these burnt offerings, I want them not".

Is God suffering from Alzheimer's disease?

I think these authors simply had different opinions of what God is supposed to be like.

~~~~

Also, you don't like it when I bring up the drastic problems associated with the Old and New Testament, but you really can't separate them in the way that you would like to do. There are many reasons for this.

First off, Jesus is meaningless unless he is standing on the shoulders of Yahweh. It's the supposed prophecies in the Old Testament that even suggest that Jesus might be the Son of God in the first place.

Secondly, it was the directives made by God in the Old Testament commanding men to murder heathens and blasphemers that caused Jesus to be crucified! The people who crucified Jesus were only OBEYING the directives of the God of the Old Testament to begin with!

You want to ignore the single greatest absurdity in the whole biblical story. That right there is more than enough reason to toss the book on the FICTION shelf right next to Zeus and company.

Finally, if you want to separate the New and Old Testament, then why not actually do so? Tear out the Old Testament and toss it away as meaningless. Then tear out about 75% of the New Testament which is the writings of PAUL. Why? Because most of what Paul wrote was just dredged up the crap from the Old Testament to reestablish those bigotries in the Name of Jesus!

By the time you're done you'll end up with a really small book of just the four gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Although, you'd even need to toss out some parts of those because even those books often lean on passages from the Old Testament to make their case.

Well, like I say, you just continue to deny the inconsistencies and brush them under the carpet like as if they are irrelevant. In the case of Adam and Eve you obviously don't even comprehend the problem. You act like they should already know that to disobey God would be evil.

The point is that if they already knew that, then they'd already have the knowledge of "Good" and "Evil" because to do "Good" is to simply do anything that God approves of, and to do "Evil" is to do anything that God disapproves of.

There really are no other definitions of "Good" and "Evil" in a biblical sense. The only thing that defines what's "Good" or "Evil" is simply whether or not God approves of it. Period.

There is no other definition for evil.

In fact, the people who nailed Jesus to the pole were doing "Good" according to the Old Testament because they were doing precisely what the Old Testament God had instructed them to do. They were killing a heathen who blasphemed against the Old Testament. By your own proclamation the New Testament supposedly represents a New set of laws with God that is different from the Old Laws, well that very proclamation demands that the New Testament Laws are a direct blaspheme of the Old Testament laws and thus it forces Jesus into the position of being a blasphemer by the very bibilcal meaning of the term (i.e. anyone who rejects the teachings of the God of the Old Testament, and Jesus most certainly did that).

The biblical story is a gross contradiction that totally conflicts with itself.

However, if you simply recognize that Jesus was a mortal man who recognized that the Old Testament was a very badly written religious mythology and so instead he taught the moral wisdom of Buddhism to the people, then it all makes sense.

Jesus was crucified for blaspheme because he was indeed guilty of blaspheme. The authors of the New Testament tried to make out like Jesus was somehow the "Son of the God" who came to change the laws even though they have him claiming that he did not come to change the laws one jot nor one tittle. That's an oxymoron right there.

It's crystal clear that Jesus was a mortal man who was simply grossly misunderstood and was crucified in the name of the very God that you're attempting to continue to support.

Do you realize that it's actually the very religion that you continue to support that was responsible for horrible things like having people crucified in the name of God in the first place?

That was what Jesus himself was attempting to stand up against. He stood up against the stoning of sinners, etc. He stood up against the judging of others. He stood up against the seeking of revenge and instead he preached the acceptance and forgiveness of Buddhism (which was a religious philosophy that existed long before Jesus was born by the way). Jesus was preaching against the very mindset that got him crucified, and here you are acting like as if it was God's idea.

It was never God's idea, the whole Old Testament is filled with horrible unwise ideas that could have only come from mortal men. Mortal men who themselves weren't even very wise in human terms, much less representing any sort of "Divine Wisdom".

A God who asks people to judge each other and stone sinners to death?

That's reason enough right there to reject the whole mythology. Just that one single point right there is enough for me. I don't believe that any "all-wise" creator would have ever asked mortal men to do his judging for him and execute sinners on his behalf. That can only be the work of mortal men right there.

And besides, can you not see that it was this very mindset that was used as an excuse to crucify Jesus for blaspheme?

You seem to be expecting me to believe that our creator is a totally inept fool.

There are simply far better pictures of "god" out there. Eastern Mysticism is a far better picture of "god". It's far wiser, there are no losers. God doesn't lose, no humans lose, nobody loses.

In the Biblical picture there are tons of losers. God himself had to "sacrifice" his only begotten son to a bloody morbid crucifixion. This biblical God had to flood out the entire planet save for a small family and a boat load of animals. Jesus himself supposedly said that the path is straight and the gate is narrow and few will make it into the Kingdom of God. Well if few make it in, then MOST must be losers! This biblical God loses the vast majority of souls that he creates. It's a picture of a "loser" God.

Check out Eastern Mysticism in its purest philosophical form. There are no losers. All come from God, and all return to God. It's just a matter of time. There are NO LOSERS. And thus it truly is an 'All-Wise" picture of a God, because in this picture God was "WISE" enough to figure out who to create souls without losing any of them.

So why believe in a loser God when you can believe in a winner?

Why would I want to place my faith in the idea that my creator is inept? I think I'd rather just accept atheism if I were going to believe in a loser God.

But fortunately, far better picture of God exist. In fact, if you truly believe that God is "all-perfect" then you should quit insulting God by worshiping an inept mythology and instead find the most perfect mythology you can find and worship it as a picture of God. The real God may even be better than you can even imagine, but if you pick the best possibly mythological picture, at least you'll know that you've gotten as close to God as you can. Why support a sick demented picture of a God who loses the vast majority of souls he creates?

That just makes no sense to me at all.

If you're going to worship a God, at least pick a winner!

Abra wrote:

The point is that if they already knew that, then they'd already have the knowledge of "Good" and "Evil" because to do "Good" is to simply do anything that God approves of, and to do "Evil" is to do anything that God disapproves of.
--------------------------------------------

Cowboy replied:

It's like when you have children. You tell them not to do something, they'll do it any ways. And parents punish their children for disobeying.

In fact, the people who nailed Jesus to the pole were doing "Good" according to the Old Testament because they were doing precisely what the Old Testament God had instructed them to do. They were killing a heathen who blasphemed against the Old Testament. By your own proclamation the New Testament supposedly represents a New set of laws with God that is different from the Old Laws, well that very proclamation demands that the New Testament Laws are a direct blaspheme of the Old Testament laws and thus it forces Jesus into the position of being a blasphemer by the very bibilcal meaning of the term (i.e. anyone who rejects the teachings of the God of the Old Testament, and Jesus most certainly did that).
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Not true, the old testament speaks of a savior coming. The people who crucified Jesus just didn't see him as the savior the old testament spoke of. So the coming of Jesus went along with the old testament, they just didn't think he was of whom the old testament claimed would do it.