Damned shame their 'reportage' wasn't this focused during the campaign of '08 ... life today would be SO much nicer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html

TIME Poll: Majority Opposes Mosque, Many Distrust Muslims

By Alex Altman Thursday, Aug. 19, 2010

Opponents of the planned Islamic community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan have public opinion firmly in their corner. According to a new TIME poll, 61% of respondents oppose the construction of the Park51/Cordoba House project, compared to 26% who support it. More than 70% concur with the premise that proceeding with the plan would be an insult to the victims of the attacks on the World Trade Center. Opposition to the project appears to derive largely from the conviction that the proposed site of the project — just two blocks from Ground Zero, in a building that formerly housed a Burlington Coat Factory outlet — is so close to "hallowed ground," as President Obama put it.

Yet the survey also revealed that many Americans harbor lingering animosity toward Muslims. Twenty-eight percent of voters do not believe Muslims should be eligible to sit on the U.S. Supreme Court. Nearly one third of the country thinks adherents of Islam should be barred from running for President — slightly higher than the 24% who believe that the current occupant of the Oval Office is himself a Muslim. In all, just 47% of respondents believe Obama is a Christian; 24% declined to respond to the question or said they were unsure, and 5% believe he is neither Christian nor Muslim.

The Federal Gov. cannot mandate anything in New York.

The New Yorkers need to bust the chops of the City Council to block the proposed Mega-Mosque.

Or have some deranged lunatic fly a plane into it and NY City Hall in the name of god!

not surprising at all,, sad, but not surprising

havent ya heard ya cant be a 'real christian' without hating muslims,,,

Pffffft ...

hey, it's america... we are allowed to hate what we want

NOW COME ON! THAT IS A LINE AND A HALF! I EXPECTED BETTER OF YOU!

A proper CATHOLIC hates Jews and Muslims. Some Baptists also. But Christianity in general is not about hate or hating the other guy becasue they are different. The most basic tenant of Christianity is to "love thy neighbor!" Not "Kill the Infidel!"


Now come on! You say you are a pacifist but fight for the ideal that we need religious tolerance even when the other religion is violent and based on violence and brutality like Islam? Islam is like a cancer, it spreads until it kills you! Islam is the mirror opposite of Christianity.

It isn't core Christianity I have an issue with, It is organized religions and Pseudo Cults like Islam.

Pantheon Animism like India has is so misunderstood by westerners yet it has a huge following. People think Kali-ma is a destroyer when she is the Earth in reality and her many arms and faces are her reaching across time. Shiva is not as much of a creator more than a balance that creation and destruction pivots on.

Islam is cut and dry. Follow us or die. Christianity had its era of blood but that has passed. Islam never got past their era of blood.

So now where do we all stand exactly on this?

The Muslims wanted to use pre-teen models.
But, for now, US Law won't permit it.
That will change.

no biggie they put it up for vote and against will win and a muslim judge will over turn it

catholics and baptists are all christians. The KJV has many instances of violence ordered or condoned by God which can be (and often are in these forums)used to implicate the whole Christian religion the way people try to implicate Islamic religion.

My stand is that type of generalization is bologna, and not the tasty tureky kind either...lol

If I am free to believe what I believe, so long as I do not break laws, EVERYONE should be free to have their beliefs as long as they dont break laws.

Different Islamic countries have different laws which all the people must follow regardless of their personal interpretations of a holy book,,,,,,just like western countries do.

So how do you translate, "Kill the Infidels?"

They are going to tickle us to death? Maybe they will try humor on us?

The bible was mistranslated and even misinterpreted becasue people want to see what they want and evidently the same is true about the Quar-an. It is so easy to overlook the hatred in that book yet people read death and murder into the bible.

Yep...

I suppose to be real Christians we need to stand around like a bunch of idoits and strech our necks out when the time is right and allow our heads to be cut of because we are the Satans and Infedels to Islam?You go ahead.


There is a old saying "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".I am doing something.I am speaking out against Islam every chance I get and will continue to do so until they make peace with the world and stop calling for the destruction of Israel and the United states.


Islam isn't a religon.It is a bunch of lunitics using God as a excuse to murder,rape,enslave,and destroy countries and saying they are justified in doing so.

give me the verse, and I will most likely be able to look further into an appropriate CONTEXT which will explain it,,,

I am no expert on REAL CHRISTIANS< I know though that CHRIST said

'"Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye." (Mt. 7:1-5)


when I am sufficiently convinced, that as a christian, I hold exclusivity to some moral standard that people of other 'faiths' cant have,, perhaps I can see your point of view

until then, there are people of all faiths who act out in extremism hatred and violence,, whether they blame it on their religion or their politics they are no better or worse than each other

IF I am not to be judged by what is the WORST of biblical traditions(stoning, for example) or what the worst of christians have done, than I refuse to use that standard of judgment against all muslims

I think you should convert to Islam.You love to defend them every chance you get.



http://pedestrianinfidel.blogspot.com/2005/09/axis-of-islam-verses-of-hate.html

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”

Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”

Qur’an 9.33 He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions.

Qur’an 2:193 “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah”

Qur’an 8:71 And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM

Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.

Friday, September 23, 2005
Axis of Islam: Verses of Hate
Axis of Islam: The Verses of Hate

This is part of a series of articles on the Axis Of Islam, who the Islamists are, who is helping them, what they want, and what drives them. On the right I am building a static link section ("Axis of Islam") to all parts as they are posted to the Pedestrian Infidel site. The Verses of Hate is a selction of verses from the Qur'an and the Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad). There are thousands of verses and sayings urging Muslims to kill the infidels and take control of the Infidel lands. They are in every chapter of the Qur'an, not isolated to one section. In fact, those few verses that are promoted by Taqiyyamaster (Muslim elitists, often Middle East Studies professors and Muslim imams or mullahs, who lie and deceive the Infidel regarding Islam and its true meaning) as 'tolerant' are abrograted (made invalid and no longer true to Muslims) by later verses. It is easy to deceive the Infidels since so few bother to research Islam or read the Qur'an, the Hadiths, or the history of jihad.

Qur’an and Hadith Verses

CAIR, and many other Islamic organizations recently backed a fatwa against terror. They say that Islam condemns violence against innocent lives and civilians. But that’s not true at all. Infidels are never innocent in war, and we are at war.

“Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur’an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth”

--Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998

These liars shouldn’t let the Infidels access their war manuals! It is important to remember Mohammad had revelations depending on what was happening. For example, when not everyone was eager to do jihad, he would announce new revelations telling them Allah was pissed at them and would punish them. There are literally hundreds of verses in the Qur’an and Hadiths that are hate filled and vile. Literally too many to list them all as they would fill a book. They already do anyway, it's the Qur'an.

Keep In Mind When Reading Verses

1) Sura is Arabic for chapters.
2) Verses can be repetitive. That is, a verse may repeat in the Qur’an and/or in the Suras and Hadiths (sayings of Muhammad collected by Burkhari or Muslim or others) numerous times, but be slightly different in wording.
3) Qur’an verses are often ‘real time.’ That is, Muhammad would come up with a verse to express his anger in certain situations. For example, he gets pissed at some Jews, or thinks his warriors are slacking in the jihad, that’s a good time for a holy revelation and let them have it.
4) Chapters (Suras) and sometimes even verses within a chapter are out of chronological order in the Qur’an. For example, Chapters 9 and 5 are considered the last revelations. Since Muhammad is at the pinnacle of his conquest when he revealed chapters 9 and 5, verses from Chapter 9 and 5, which always abrogated earlier verses that conflict, show the true hatred and venom of Muhammad when he believed he had no one to fear. [The Encyclopedia of Islam, op cit, details three Western Islamic scholars chronology of the Qur’an. (Noldeke was one of the greatest Qur’anic scholars from the West). This is the chronological order of the last Medinan Suras listed in their work: Weil sequence: 2, 98, 62, 65, 22, 4, 8, 47, 57, 3, 59, 24, 63, 33, 48, 110, 61, 60, 58, 49, 66, 9, 5. Noldeke and Blachere sequence: 2, 98, 64, 62, 8, 47, 3, 61, 57, 4, 65, 59, 33, 63, 24, 58, 22, 48, 66, 60, 110, 49, 9, 5. [NOTE: Traditional Western dating breaks the chronological order of the Qur’an up into 3 or 4 groups. The last group (sometimes called “late Medinan”) is presented above. There are earlier suras in both lists above, however, for space’s sake, and editing time, only the last sura grouping is presented. Note that sura 9 is the second to last in all these three scholar’s groupings.] Here’s the bottom line, Suras 9 and 5, the most violent and vile of Suras are the last spoken by Muhammad, and they abrogate all previous verses in conflict with them. Do not allow Muslim apologists to deceive you by citing verses abrograted by verses in Suras 9 and 5.
5) Muslims all the time lie to Infidels about what the Qur’an says. In fact, the Qur’an honors and promote deceit to advance Islam against the Infidels. Taqiyyamasters will tell you the Qur’an is being mistranslated to English. This is BS. The verses in all the translations are remarkably similar. A manifest of intimidation, war and murder. It’s easy to see, but hard for many to believe because its vileness and deceit are repulsive. Now you will understand just a bit more about how jihad is fundamental to Islam.
6) Muslims all the time claim you are reading an English Qur’an that has misinterpreted the original Arabic. This is complete BS. The Qur’an is not that complicated at all. The chapters are out of order, which is stupid and confuses the reader who does not know this, but now you know the correct sequence. You can look at many English translations, and they are extremely close. Really, how does ‘kill’ in Arabic get mistranslated into ‘love’ rather than ‘kill.’ It can’t be.

Here is just a sample of Mohammad’s revelations:

Everything Those Infidels Have Everywhere In the World Already Belongs to the Muslims, Take It

Qur’an 33.27 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.

Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome. NOTE: Political Correctness and Multiculturalism has proven to be the most powerful weapon for the advancement of Dar al-Islam since 1945.

About Those Annoying Non-Believers (Infidels, Pagans, Jews, Christians, etc.)

Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”
Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
NOTE: By ‘guarding carefully’, a Muslim should deceive the infidel. Acting as a friend is fine as long as it is to benefit the Muslim and protect Islam.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”

Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”

Qur’an 9.33 He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions.

Qur’an 2:193 “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah”

Qur’an 8:71 And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM

Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Qur’an 48:13 Those who “believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!”

Qur’an 3:54 “‘Lord, we believe in Your revelations (the Torah and Gospels) and follow this Apostle (Jesus). Enroll us among the witnesses.’ But the Christians contrived a plot and Allah did the same; but Allah’s plot was the best.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”

Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.”

Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them (non-Muslims) whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah (non-Muslims), and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”

Qur’an 4:101 “The unbelievers (non-Muslims) are your inveterate foe.”

Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them (non-Muslims) whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah (non-Muslims), and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

Bukhari:V4B56N814 “There was a Christian who embraced Islam and he used to write the revelations for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again he used to say: ‘Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.’”

Qur’an 9.28 O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque (Mecca) after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
NOTE: In 631 A.D. (less than one year before his death, Muhammad had a revelation. No infidels allowed into Mecca (9:28). This also included the idolators, i.e., the orginal rock worshippers of the Kabaa who had not submitted to Islam. They were history, what few were left by this time.

Qur’an 9.29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Qur’an 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Qur’an 47:4 “Strike off the heads of the disbelievers”; and after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.”

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985) Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

Hadith Sahih Bukhari (4:52:177) Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”

Hadith Sahih Bukhari (4:56:791) Narrated ‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar:
I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The Jews will fight with you, and you will be given victory over them so that a stone will say, ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew behind me; kill him!’ “

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6981) Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You will fight against the Jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me); kill him.

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6982) Ubaidullah has reported this hadith with this chain of transmitters (and the Words are):
“There is a Jew behind me.”

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6983) Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
You and the Jews would fight against one another until a stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him.

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6984) Abdullah b. ‘Umar reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:
The Jews will fight against you and you will gain victory over them until the stone would say: Muslim, here is a Jew behind me; kill him.

Qur’an 21:44 Do they not see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.

Qur’an 47.35 And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught.

Bukhari:V4B53N412 “Allah’s Apostle said on the day of the conquest of Mecca, ‘There is no migration now, only Jihad, holy battle. And when you are called for Jihad, you should come out at once.’”

You can spare the me judgment verse you keep posting over and over and over.I have been over this judgment verse probably a hundred times in General religion chat and it always seems to go through one ear and out the other.

"Do not judge" is talking about ASSUMING someone is bad with out knowing anything about them.That is what he is talking about.The entire bible speaks about the evil that people do.It says to stay away from evil people.The way we know they are evil people is by watching their actions.It is not judgment to stay away from evil people because of what they say and do.


This stupid idea that Christians are supposed to blindfold their eyes and associate with everyone regardless of the way they are conducting themselves is extremely foolish.

You ever read the bible?

Do not associate with non believers.
Do not associate with prostitutes.
Do not associate with thieves and murders.
Do not associate with other religions.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Anyone and everyone is welcome to Christianity if they want to hear it and convert to it.To those who do not want to listen and only want to harm Christians we are suppose to stay away from them.We are certainly not to help other religions including the people who are supporting them.


If your so non judgmental I suppose if you knew a priest was abusing a child you would sit back and say nothing?

How about inviting a known child molester into your house for dinner?

Since you are preaching how us Christians are wrong about this issue perhaps you can present us with some bible verse telling us how we should be supporting Islam and other religions.


Your issue of stoning and some other Old testament verses you keep bringing up has absolutely nothing to do with anything that has been happening in the last 2,000 years and certainly nothing at all to do with America.Why you keep brining up this stuff that was law(but as far as we know never rarely enforced if ever)and pretends like it has some meaning in the lives of Americans is puzzling.You might as well bring up how Americans are worried about the torture chambers the British are using,or how the Egyptians are feeding people to the lions.

Nobody living in America is worried about Old testament punishment from the bible.You can go to every Christian church in America for the rest of your life and nobody is going to tell you that we should start bringing back Old testament punishments for crimes that have already been paid for by Jesus blood.

Havn't you heard that you can't be free and maintain a countrys' way of life and allow foriegn enemies dictate what happens in your country. That's like saying a real muslim hates christians...kind of narrow i think.

cheers

I defend BALANCE every chance I get actually, (meaning just as I dont want my faith persecuted I am not willing to persecute others for their faith),,,,I speak up about CHRISTIANS quite a bit too...in the religion thread where we are often targets

but in THIS thread it is muslims being targeted

exodus 22:24
My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless.


look, because it is obvious so many are just totally missing the point and because I dont want to do a tit for tat of verses that are taken in negative contexts from both the bible and the quran....


the only word I need to address from your post is KNOWN

I wouldnt welcome a known pedophile, regardless his religion, around my children

I wouldnt welcome a known thief, regardless his religion, around my things

I dont KNOW all muslims,, do you?


the relevance of old testament is that it nullifies the nonsense about muslims being EVIL,, if that is the case, everyone living during old testament times was EVIL as well,,, when in fact they were just abiding by the culture of THAT REGION during THAT TIME