How can you say that it's not sponsoring any religion if they are using a "Bible"?

That is a clear indication that they are promoting the Bible as having some sort of 'valid' connection to "god".

and there is where we differ .. all the religions have a belief in a god .. different names.. but still a god ..still they are not promoting one over the other. that is the basis of it all..that's how i can say that..

and the point goes whizzing past never to be seen ..several relogions use the bible.. the state is not promoting any of them .they are still seperate from the state...the founding of this country should dictate what is used to begin with .. not weather it's the contemporary feeling of a few loud groups..

So no, the point hasn't gone whizzing by anyone. We know _exactly_ what you're trying to do and it hasn't worked in the past.


-Kerry O.

Truly.

Besides, all religions that are based on the "God of Abraham" are basically the same religion. Just because they are utterly confused and at odds with each other doesn't mean that they are different religions. It's just one huge religion that is so thoroughly confused by the ambiguous contradicting doctrine that no one knows what the "God of Abraham" even supposedly wants.

The Christian off-shoot of the religion violates the basic Ten Commandments by placing Jesus before the God of Abraham. It's the most oxymoronic off-shoot of all the Abrahamic Religions.

Truly.

Besides, all religions that are based on the "God of Abraham" are basically the same religion. Just because they are utterly confused and at odds with each other doesn't mean that they are different religions. It's just one huge religion that is so thoroughly confused by the ambiguous contradicting doctrine that no one knows what the "God of Abraham" even supposedly wants.

The Christian off-shoot of the religion violates the basic Ten Commandments by placing Jesus before the God of Abraham. It's the most oxymoronic off-shoot of all the Abrahamic Religions.

I am christian, I am curious as to why it is you think I violate the ten commandments in worshipping(revering) Jesus? Do you feel this is the same as putting Jesus BEFORE God? I revered my brothers growing up, but that did not place them ABOVE my parents,,,,,Im just curious of how you come to that conclusion?

I am christian, I am curious as to why it is you think I violate the ten commandments in worshipping(revering) Jesus? Do you feel this is the same as putting Jesus BEFORE God? I revered my brothers growing up, but that did not place them ABOVE my parents,,,,,Im just curious of how you come to that conclusion?

Well, according to the Christians it's impossible to get to God without going THROUGH Jesus. Therefore they are putting Jesus BEFORE God.

The commandment says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Yet the Christians are doing precisely this by placing Jesus between mankind and God. They are putting Jesus BEFORE God.

And the real IRONY of all this is that the orignial commandment was no doubt made up by men in an effort to demand that no one place any other religion before their religion.

But the Christians weaseled their way around that by creating a "New God" who they placed BEFORE the God of Abraham all the while PRETENDING that it's the same religion, when in fact it's NOT.

Can you not see that these man-made religions were just competing with each other to try to command the most authority?

The Christians (the authors of the New Testament) were trying to claim that their religion holds the "Greatest Authority" by pretending that no one can even get to the old Jewish God unless they come THROUGH Jesus (the Christian's NEW jealous Godhead)

It's just a religious gimmick to try to pull the greatest clout.

These religious schemes are nothing more than the left-over cut-throat politics from ancient societies who were trying to make their religion more powerful than someone else's.


Note: When I use the term "Christians" I'm talking about the actual authors of the New Testament. Not today's subservient followers.

It's not putting Jesus before God. When we pray, we don't pray "to" Jesus, we pray through Jesus. And is why we'll end our prayers with "In Jesus' name we pray, amen" Jesus is the way to God, but we worship God, not Jesus. Again we worship God through Jesus.

*The commandment says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Yet the Christians are doing precisely this by placing Jesus between mankind and God. They are putting Jesus BEFORE God. *

And how would praying through Jesus to God be putting any God before the true God?

John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One."

There seems to be a belief in this country that the USA is a "Christian Nation"; and that the "Founding Fathers" were Christians led by GOD for the establishment of the USA. Is any of this true?

There seems to be a belief in this country that the USA is a "Christian Nation"; and that the "Founding Fathers" were Christians led by GOD for the establishment of the USA. Is any of this true?

*The commandment says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Yet the Christians are doing precisely this by placing Jesus between mankind and God. They are putting Jesus BEFORE God. *

And how would praying through Jesus to God be putting any God before the true God?

John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One."

You missed the whole point Cowboy.

You're looking at it entirely from the delusion of the religion. Which is precisely how the authors had hoped you would.

That's precisely how they "justify" what they are doing.

But what you miss is the fact that they STOLE the religious power from the previous Abrahamic religion.

In other words. You fell for their political tactics.

what's delusional there? And what proof or evidence do you have of such?

It's not putting Jesus before God. When we pray, we don't pray "to" Jesus, we pray through Jesus. And is why we'll end our prayers with "In Jesus' name we pray, amen" Jesus is the way to God, but we worship God, not Jesus. Again we worship God through Jesus.

I am not on anyone's side of this argument, whether Jesus is before God, but this above argument does not hold water, for the prayers don't end simply "in the name of Jesus, Amen", but "in the name of the Lord, the Son, of the Holy Spirit, amen".

Which, the true version of ending prayers, puts Jesus on equal footing with the Lord God as far as praying "thru" or praying "to" is concerned.

The problem is not this; the problem is how decide the concept whether Jesus is God, or Jesus is put before God, beside God, after God, on top, below, or into Him.

This is tough. Christians have developed a theological answer that says there is the Holy Trinity, which is one god and includes three units, the God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Even just in and by itself this is an undeniable contradiction, a joke of Biblical proportions by trying to make people believe it's possible, to have 1 God that is 3 Gods. However, that's again a different argument. And it is even more of a joke, it is a social experiment of Biblical proportions, that people can be made to believe something that is inherently impossible: One being three or the other way around. "I have one god for you which is three gods" gets through to us, while "I have one apple for you which is three apples" would attract public ridicule.

This conundrum of the divinity of Jesus, and his place in the deitary hierarchy can be further mined with the following thought-experiment:

Who came first? God or Jesus?

If God came first, then Jesus became God later. But God is everlasting. If something is everlasting, it cannot join to become that something in mid-stream of the timeline of the universe. So God could not have come first.

The only remaining alternative is that Jesus came first, and the Christian God was created by Jesus; meaning, that before Christianity there was no Christian God, only a Jewish God. (Who, incidentally, himself, was not actually Jewish; he was the OTHER party in the covenant, He never was circumcised, and he was not born to a Jewish mother. Furthermore, he never converted to, or assumed Judaism. He just likes Jews, they are His chosen people. He cannot become His chosen people, because His people cannot be chosen. For instance, I can be adopted by a man and a woman, if they choose me; but I cannot be chosen by my father and mother.)

So if Jesus came first, and then the Christian God in His triumviratic presence came second, then who was it that divined the Angels to tell the pastors that a King was born? Because the Christian God has no historical or even legendary presence in the world before Christ. There was a God of the Jews, there was Ka, there was Ankh, there was Jupiter, and a million and one others. But there was NO Christian God before Jesus.

????

John 10:34-39
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.