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| Topic: 87-year-old Ore. woman Tasered to death by local cops | |
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I can only imagine a cop being in that situation and going for his taser and in the confusion grabbing the wrong weapon. When that much $hit is going down it is easy to make mistakes. I'm starting to suspect you haven't seen the video. It may be true that in your situation, it would be understandable for someone to grab the wrong weapon. In the Oakland shooting situation, its not at all understandable. I'm not saying I disbelieve the officer, but anyone who is so careless as to mistake one weapon for the other under the more controlled circumstance shown in the video should not be on the streets. It isn't just maliciousness, dishonesty, and disregard for peoples lives which makes some police officers dangerous to our citizenry - it is also incompetence. Dangerously incompetent officers should not be given the chance to accidentally kill people. The same thing applies to air traffic control, surgeons, even roller coaster mechanics. This is not a judgement against that person: hes probably a better cop than I'd ever be, but still not good enough to be given a gun. exactly,, some of them need desk jobs cause the STRESS of live action is not something they handle very well I would much rather they use those tasers to subdue suspects or shoot to injure than shooting to kill as they do so often,,,,perhaps the training needs to be adjusted,, who knows |
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I can only imagine a cop being in that situation and going for his taser and in the confusion grabbing the wrong weapon. When that much $hit is going down it is easy to make mistakes. I'm starting to suspect you haven't seen the video. It may be true that in your situation, it would be understandable for someone to grab the wrong weapon. In the Oakland shooting situation, its not at all understandable. I'm not saying I disbelieve the officer, but anyone who is so careless as to mistake one weapon for the other under the more controlled circumstance shown in the video should not be on the streets. It isn't just maliciousness, dishonesty, and disregard for peoples lives which makes some police officers dangerous to our citizenry - it is also incompetence. Dangerously incompetent officers should not be given the chance to accidentally kill people. The same thing applies to air traffic control, surgeons, even roller coaster mechanics. This is not a judgement against that person: hes probably a better cop than I'd ever be, but still not good enough to be given a gun. Your right, I haven't seen the video, I wasn't able to find it. You are also right that a cop that screws up that bad shouldn't be on the streets. But I would have to see the video to really give my opinion. Do I think he should be criminally tried? Hell no. I agree that he should not be tried for the deliberate use of a gun, because it is so obvious that using a gun was inappropriate to the situation. It would be completely insane for a police officer to think that pulling their gun and shooting someone in the situation shown in the video was an appropriate response. And to do so in such a well lit area, with so many witnesses, in the era of cell phone cameras - it just has to be an accident IMO. |
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I can only imagine a cop being in that situation and going for his taser and in the confusion grabbing the wrong weapon. When that much $hit is going down it is easy to make mistakes. I'm starting to suspect you haven't seen the video. It may be true that in your situation, it would be understandable for someone to grab the wrong weapon. In the Oakland shooting situation, its not at all understandable. I'm not saying I disbelieve the officer, but anyone who is so careless as to mistake one weapon for the other under the more controlled circumstance shown in the video should not be on the streets. It isn't just maliciousness, dishonesty, and disregard for peoples lives which makes some police officers dangerous to our citizenry - it is also incompetence. Dangerously incompetent officers should not be given the chance to accidentally kill people. The same thing applies to air traffic control, surgeons, even roller coaster mechanics. This is not a judgement against that person: hes probably a better cop than I'd ever be, but still not good enough to be given a gun. Your right, I haven't seen the video, I wasn't able to find it. You are also right that a cop that screws up that bad shouldn't be on the streets. But I would have to see the video to really give my opinion. Do I think he should be criminally tried? Hell no. I agree that he should not be tried for the deliberate use of a gun, because it is so obvious that using a gun was inappropriate to the situation. It would be completely insane for a police officer to think that pulling their gun and shooting someone in the situation shown in the video was an appropriate response. And to do so in such a well lit area, with so many witnesses, in the era of cell phone cameras - it just has to be an accident IMO. the victims name is Oscar Grant, if anyone wants to look up the video, its all over the web,,, |
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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6640413.html Whatever the reasons, shootings of citizens by Harris County law officers already this year have overtaken the number of shootings last year, as well as the year before. As of Sept. 24, a total of 44 police shootings have occurred, up from 35 in all of 2008, and 32 in 2007. The Houston Police Department has the highest number of shootings, with 24 this year, up from 21 in all of 2008, and 19 in 2007. The Harris County Sheriff's Office has been involved in six shootings so far this year, down one from the seven logged in 2008. Deaths are up, as well. As of last Thursday, 20 people had been killed in police shootings, up from 16 killed in all of 2008, and 12 the year before. Community activist Quanell X said shootings by Houston police officers and sheriff deputies are a legacy of a “culture” fostered by ex-district attorney Chuck Rosenthal, who he claimed seldom prosecuted law officers. “There have been too many shootings involving HPD officers, or Harris County deputies, where they have shot, wounded and even killed unarmed young men,” Quanell X said. “And, yet, these cops are being exonerated and no-billed. Those numbers are reflective of a cultural mindset of the officers that work for the Houston and Harris County law enforcement agencies.” |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation.
I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. |
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that kid was on the ground and appeared to even be cuffed, if anyone watched the video,, that cop committed negligent homicide at the very least I do feel bad for the situations police sometimes find themselves in,, but when its several to one,,,,my sympathy diminishes He wasn't cuffed, he was reaching in his pocket. I know anytime I had someone cuffed right pinned they couldn't risist or get to a pocket and im an amateur. LOL he was on his stomach, was he gonna shoot them backwards? poor policework, incompetent, and negligent homicide? Actually you can shoot someone laying on your stomach. This was justified, but to appease the rioters he was charged. lololol,,,haaaaaaa there were FIVE cops subduing him and there was no gun recovered,,,poor police work, shot an unarmed man instead of doing their job to secure him,,,,, Shot a man who was resisting arrest who was reaching into a pocket who just started a fight, possibly gang related and that's why the cops showed up. The cop that killed the kid in Oakland shot him in the temple with his pistol. Even if he had actually used the taser, he'd of still killed him with a shot like that to the brain. The difference is that there is a completely different set of rules applied when the Gestapo that we masquerade as a policing force actually kills someone. It is still applied when one cop kills another. Case in point. Brown County Kansas. A deputy sheriff kills not one, but two police dogs (in separate incidents) by leaving them in a closed police cruiser, without air, on hundred degree days. Not only is this officer not suspended or fired, he is not charged with the death of these two police officers. Considering that if any civilian were to kill a police dog, they would be doing 25 to life (for killing a cop regardless of "breed"), this man got away with murder, twice. The double standard is ridiculous and police should be held accountable for their actions, especially given that any civilian isn't even allowed to defend themselves against a police attack - even when police force isn't justified. This puts cops "above the law" and it is backed by the courts and DA's offices universally. Police should be held to a higher standard than civilians, not a lower one and deadly force should have to be proven necessary beyond a reasonable doubt, not just because it's part of the job. i agree, the double standard is not right. cops can get away with anything they want... there is very little "policing" the police. No they can't, haven't you ever heard of IAB or Internal affairs? Then on top of it the State Police usually investigates or the state bureau of investigation. There is very little they get away with. hmmm, there are MANY of them who do get away with plenty of BS,,,IAB or not there has not been ONE unjustified police shooting since I have been in Nevada,,and they have shot several people,,,they ALWAYS get cleared , regardless the circumstances When, where and what department? there were nine fatal shootings in 2005 alone,,,just put justified police shoootings Nevada, in your favorite search engine and you will find plenty more,,,,, I have been here since 2005, I dont feel like looking up numbers for each year,,,, My bad, I thought you said there was one unjustified shooting in Nevada. So your gripeing that there have been 9 justified shootings in Nevada? That obviously mean's the cops were cleared of charges by either the department or a grand jury. You got to realize Nevada has one of the largest crime rates in the country thanks to Vegas and Reno. Just look at the past two years, there were a couple of Marshals shot at a court in Vegas and a judge and a judges staff member shot up here in Reno. That hasn't happened anywhere else in a long time. Also look at the statistics at how many weapons the police here in Nevada has pulled a firearm off someone, had one pointed at them or even been shot at. I bet that extremly outnumbers the 9 justified shootings. |
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In December 2008, Amnesty released a report that found 90% of all Taser gun deaths examined involved people who were unarmed and did not appear to present a serious threat to officers. In addition, a number of deaths have been associated with inappropriate use of the weapons, such as repeated firings, shocks that last longer than five seconds or delivering a charge to the neck or head.
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/taser-guns-linked-to-334-deaths-by-amnesty-international-2106/ |
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Edited by
Lpdon
on
Sun 07/11/10 12:36 PM
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I can only imagine a cop being in that situation and going for his taser and in the confusion grabbing the wrong weapon. When that much $hit is going down it is easy to make mistakes. I'm starting to suspect you haven't seen the video. It may be true that in your situation, it would be understandable for someone to grab the wrong weapon. In the Oakland shooting situation, its not at all understandable. I'm not saying I disbelieve the officer, but anyone who is so careless as to mistake one weapon for the other under the more controlled circumstance shown in the video should not be on the streets. It isn't just maliciousness, dishonesty, and disregard for peoples lives which makes some police officers dangerous to our citizenry - it is also incompetence. Dangerously incompetent officers should not be given the chance to accidentally kill people. The same thing applies to air traffic control, surgeons, even roller coaster mechanics. This is not a judgement against that person: hes probably a better cop than I'd ever be, but still not good enough to be given a gun. Your right, I haven't seen the video, I wasn't able to find it. You are also right that a cop that screws up that bad shouldn't be on the streets. But I would have to see the video to really give my opinion. Do I think he should be criminally tried? Hell no. I agree that he should not be tried for the deliberate use of a gun, because it is so obvious that using a gun was inappropriate to the situation. It would be completely insane for a police officer to think that pulling their gun and shooting someone in the situation shown in the video was an appropriate response. And to do so in such a well lit area, with so many witnesses, in the era of cell phone cameras - it just has to be an accident IMO. the victims name is Oscar Grant, if anyone wants to look up the video, its all over the web,,, Yup, a known gang member with numerous arrests and just got out and off of parole for a gun charge who was involved in a fight. |
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that kid was on the ground and appeared to even be cuffed, if anyone watched the video,, that cop committed negligent homicide at the very least I do feel bad for the situations police sometimes find themselves in,, but when its several to one,,,,my sympathy diminishes He wasn't cuffed, he was reaching in his pocket. I know anytime I had someone cuffed right pinned they couldn't risist or get to a pocket and im an amateur. LOL he was on his stomach, was he gonna shoot them backwards? poor policework, incompetent, and negligent homicide? Actually you can shoot someone laying on your stomach. This was justified, but to appease the rioters he was charged. lololol,,,haaaaaaa there were FIVE cops subduing him and there was no gun recovered,,,poor police work, shot an unarmed man instead of doing their job to secure him,,,,, Shot a man who was resisting arrest who was reaching into a pocket who just started a fight, possibly gang related and that's why the cops showed up. The cop that killed the kid in Oakland shot him in the temple with his pistol. Even if he had actually used the taser, he'd of still killed him with a shot like that to the brain. The difference is that there is a completely different set of rules applied when the Gestapo that we masquerade as a policing force actually kills someone. It is still applied when one cop kills another. Case in point. Brown County Kansas. A deputy sheriff kills not one, but two police dogs (in separate incidents) by leaving them in a closed police cruiser, without air, on hundred degree days. Not only is this officer not suspended or fired, he is not charged with the death of these two police officers. Considering that if any civilian were to kill a police dog, they would be doing 25 to life (for killing a cop regardless of "breed"), this man got away with murder, twice. The double standard is ridiculous and police should be held accountable for their actions, especially given that any civilian isn't even allowed to defend themselves against a police attack - even when police force isn't justified. This puts cops "above the law" and it is backed by the courts and DA's offices universally. Police should be held to a higher standard than civilians, not a lower one and deadly force should have to be proven necessary beyond a reasonable doubt, not just because it's part of the job. i agree, the double standard is not right. cops can get away with anything they want... there is very little "policing" the police. No they can't, haven't you ever heard of IAB or Internal affairs? Then on top of it the State Police usually investigates or the state bureau of investigation. There is very little they get away with. hmmm, there are MANY of them who do get away with plenty of BS,,,IAB or not there has not been ONE unjustified police shooting since I have been in Nevada,,and they have shot several people,,,they ALWAYS get cleared , regardless the circumstances When, where and what department? there were nine fatal shootings in 2005 alone,,,just put justified police shoootings Nevada, in your favorite search engine and you will find plenty more,,,,, I have been here since 2005, I dont feel like looking up numbers for each year,,,, My bad, I thought you said there was one unjustified shooting in Nevada. So your gripeing that there have been 9 justified shootings in Nevada? That obviously mean's the cops were cleared of charges by either the department or a grand jury. You got to realize Nevada has one of the largest crime rates in the country thanks to Vegas and Reno. Just look at the past two years, there were a couple of Marshals shot at a court in Vegas and a judge and a judges staff member shot up here in Reno. That hasn't happened anywhere else in a long time. Also look at the statistics at how many weapons the police here in Nevada has pulled a firearm off someone, had one pointed at them or even been shot at. I bet that extremly outnumbers the 9 justified shootings. I agree, like with any group, I believe there are far more who are good than bad,,,but there are still too many poor cops being given guns who shouldnt have them. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. there is a commonly held misconception of black males as 'dangerous' or like 'animals' in this country and a history of crimes against black males being treated less urgently but, all that being said, I make those assertions about INDIVIDUALS only when I have enough information about THEIR situation to do so |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. there is a commonly held misconception of black males as 'dangerous' or like 'animals' in this country and a history of crimes against black males being treated less urgently but, all that being said, I make those assertions about INDIVIDUALS only when I have enough information about THEIR situation to do so That is not what happened in this situation. it's not like he went up to a black kid for no reason and tried taking him into custody. There was a call about a fight in progress and this subject was part of it. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. there is a commonly held misconception of black males as 'dangerous' or like 'animals' in this country and a history of crimes against black males being treated less urgently but, all that being said, I make those assertions about INDIVIDUALS only when I have enough information about THEIR situation to do so That is not what happened in this situation. it's not like he went up to a black kid for no reason and tried taking him into custody. There was a call about a fight in progress and this subject was part of it. It is not necessary that there be no reason,, I was only referring to a common MISCONCEPTION people have about the 'uncontrollable' black man which may be REASON enough for them to react unreasonably |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. there is a commonly held misconception of black males as 'dangerous' or like 'animals' in this country and a history of crimes against black males being treated less urgently but, all that being said, I make those assertions about INDIVIDUALS only when I have enough information about THEIR situation to do so That is not what happened in this situation. it's not like he went up to a black kid for no reason and tried taking him into custody. There was a call about a fight in progress and this subject was part of it. It is not necessary that there be no reason,, I was only referring to a common MISCONCEPTION people have about the 'uncontrollable' black man which may be REASON enough for them to react unreasonably Accidents happen. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. I agree, and I consider this to be a form of bigotry - bigotry against police. Just because a handful of other police officers have demonstrated themselves to be racist and hateful towards blacks doesn't mean all police are so; and just because there have been situations where white cops murdered black suspects doesn't mean that every dead black suspect was intentionally killed by the white cops. I don't want to defend this mentality - but they aren't making this up from nothing. There really have been many, many cases of racially motivated brutality and fatal use of force against blacks by white cops in the last half century. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. I agree, and I consider this to be a form of bigotry - bigotry against police. Just because a handful of other police officers have demonstrated themselves to be racist and hateful towards blacks doesn't mean all police are so; and just because there have been situations where white cops murdered black suspects doesn't mean that every dead black suspect was intentionally killed by the white cops. I don't want to defend this mentality - but they aren't making this up from nothing. There really have been many, many cases of racially motivated brutality and fatal use of force against blacks by white cops in the last half century. Yes there have BUT it's not like he just walked up and shot this guy. The guy had a long criminal history of gun charges and resisting and righting police and they were responding to a fight that this guy was a part of. He is not a victim here, the cop is. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. I agree, and I consider this to be a form of bigotry - bigotry against police. Just because a handful of other police officers have demonstrated themselves to be racist and hateful towards blacks doesn't mean all police are so; and just because there have been situations where white cops murdered black suspects doesn't mean that every dead black suspect was intentionally killed by the white cops. I don't want to defend this mentality - but they aren't making this up from nothing. There really have been many, many cases of racially motivated brutality and fatal use of force against blacks by white cops in the last half century. Yes there have BUT it's not like he just walked up and shot this guy. The guy had a long criminal history of gun charges and resisting and righting police and they were responding to a fight that this guy was a part of. He is not a victim here, the cop is. why dont we just go in the prisons and execute everyone convicted of fighting or resisting arrest(by the way, where is the evidence that any of those accusations are true?),,,, if they 'deserve' to die? this person should not have been shot,,,period. the cop made a huge mistake(hopefully)and someones child has died unnecessarily ,,,,I feel sorry for the family. |
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I know many people who think this was an intentional execution - but I think their opinion is based on other horrible situations they've known of with police misconduct...not the facts of this situation. I do believe that, in the past, executions of subdued suspects have occurred and have gone unpunished, but I think police culture has evolved, especially with in the era of cell phone cameras. Honestly a lot of them I am sure think it was dileberate because it was a black man shot by a white cop. I agree, and I consider this to be a form of bigotry - bigotry against police. Just because a handful of other police officers have demonstrated themselves to be racist and hateful towards blacks doesn't mean all police are so; and just because there have been situations where white cops murdered black suspects doesn't mean that every dead black suspect was intentionally killed by the white cops. I don't want to defend this mentality - but they aren't making this up from nothing. There really have been many, many cases of racially motivated brutality and fatal use of force against blacks by white cops in the last half century. Yes there have BUT it's not like he just walked up and shot this guy. The guy had a long criminal history of gun charges and resisting and righting police and they were responding to a fight that this guy was a part of. He is not a victim here, the cop is. why dont we just go in the prisons and execute everyone convicted of fighting or resisting arrest(by the way, where is the evidence that any of those accusations are true?),,,, if they 'deserve' to die? this person should not have been shot,,,period. the cop made a huge mistake(hopefully)and someones child has died unnecessarily ,,,,I feel sorry for the family. Yea the cop ****ed up, im not saying her didn't what im saying is that he was in his right to taze the guy and even stated, "I'm gonna taze him" which is clear warning for the guy to stop resisting. |
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