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Topic: Is Knowledge a Gift from Satan - part 2
CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 05:48 PM
God wasn't created, God has always been and will always be. a pretty catchy phrase but it doesn't mean that God wasn't created can anyone that believe in God deny that God had a first thought? .....that first thought was formed from that which existed before God existence ... There was no before God's existance. God is the alpha and omega, the begining and the end. there were a pre-alpha ...God's creator That statement doesn't even make sence, something can NOT be before the first. again you are wrong...a proto-type or a demo can exist before the first ....God's ancestors no, because then God's ancestors would have been the alpha/begining. they were... How could there have been funches? Just how? How can something be before the begining of everything? And i mean EVERYTHING, not just this planet, this galaxy, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that ever did or does exist. It's not possible, God is/was before Everything. Cowboy...aren't you trying to claim that God exist before everything ...I have no dispute with that....I'm just saying that something also existed before God What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it.

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Tue 07/06/10 05:51 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 05:55 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. reason i ask is cause the bible is proof that there was no "before" God. I also do know that alot of people don't believe in the bible, but nevertheless it is still some form of evidence of such a thing. There is no evidence of anything other then God being the first of everything.

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Tue 07/06/10 05:55 PM
God has to be an extremely complex thing, (to use Dawkins' words) a god would be the ultimate 747. Science has done a nice job of showing that simplicity gives raise to complexity. (Through evolution). By using the logic we get from Science (or just re-working the creationist argument) For God to be as complex as he is, there HAD to be something before god. Either for him to evolve from, or for him to be created from. Personally, we have natural explanations for everything we understand, I don't see a need to invoke the supernatural for things we don't fully understand yet. God didn't have to go through evolution and all that, none of the natural laws we have on earth apply to God, for God created those laws. If God wishes for it to be, it is. So that is kinda irrelevant about evolution. IF god does anything in the natural world, then the natural laws apply to him too. Not exactly cause everything that does happen in the world happens only because God allows it to happen. That is the only reason for evolution, because God allows it. Doesn't happen because it is what happened to him, it happens because he ALLOWS it to happen. Nice little attempt to dismiss it, but you still fail. If something affects the natural world, then natural laws apply to that thing. So, either god does affect things in the natural world, and the natural laws apply to him, OR He doesn't affect the natural world (and cannot, thus making our existence godless) and and natural laws don't apply to him. There is No way he can affect it, and the laws not apply to him.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 05:57 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. sure no problem...the evidence I have is "believer's logic" that anything that exist has a creator ...if God exist then the same logic applies to God

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 05:58 PM
God has to be an extremely complex thing, (to use Dawkins' words) a god would be the ultimate 747. Science has done a nice job of showing that simplicity gives raise to complexity. (Through evolution). By using the logic we get from Science (or just re-working the creationist argument) For God to be as complex as he is, there HAD to be something before god. Either for him to evolve from, or for him to be created from. Personally, we have natural explanations for everything we understand, I don't see a need to invoke the supernatural for things we don't fully understand yet. God didn't have to go through evolution and all that, none of the natural laws we have on earth apply to God, for God created those laws. If God wishes for it to be, it is. So that is kinda irrelevant about evolution. IF god does anything in the natural world, then the natural laws apply to him too. Not exactly cause everything that does happen in the world happens only because God allows it to happen. That is the only reason for evolution, because God allows it. Doesn't happen because it is what happened to him, it happens because he ALLOWS it to happen. Nice little attempt to dismiss it, but you still fail. If something affects the natural world, then natural laws apply to that thing. So, either god does affect things in the natural world, and the natural laws apply to him, OR He doesn't affect the natural world (and cannot, thus making our existence godless) and and natural laws don't apply to him. There is No way he can affect it, and the laws not apply to him. How do you get such an idea? What you have might be a theory, but is not a proven fact because as humans we can NOT create anything.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 05:59 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. reason i ask is cause the bible is proof that there was no "before" God. I also do know that alot of people don't believe in the bible, but nevertheless it is still some form of evidence of such a thing. There is no evidence of anything other then God being the first of everything. the bible is a creation that existed after God....we are discussing that which existed before God

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:00 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. sure no problem...the evidence I have is "believer's logic" that anything that exist has a creator ...if God exist then the same logic applies to God That's still an opinion and or your belief. There is absolutely nothing that even could prove evident in that theory. And if a theory can not be proven true then it could never be a fact.

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Tue 07/06/10 06:01 PM
What you have might be a theory, but is not a proven fact because as humans we can NOT create anything. If humans did not create anything, how are we communicating? How do you get to work? Kinda funny how you dismiss what I say as a "theory" (One that every true scientist agrees with, I might add) yet you take the existence of a god (of which there is zero evidence for) as a fact.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:02 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. reason i ask is cause the bible is proof that there was no "before" God. I also do know that alot of people don't believe in the bible, but nevertheless it is still some form of evidence of such a thing. There is no evidence of anything other then God being the first of everything. the bible is a creation that existed after God....we are discussing that which existed before God I understand this, but inside the bible is the information that there was nothing before God. And i asked you to provide some form of information that there was something before God.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 06:02 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. sure no problem...the evidence I have is "believer's logic" that anything that exist has a creator ...if God exist then the same logic applies to God That's still an opinion and or your belief. There is absolutely nothing that even could prove evident in that theory. And if a theory can not be proven true then it could never be a fact. Cowboy......so are you saying that everything that exist doesn't need a creator?

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:05 PM
What you have might be a theory, but is not a proven fact because as humans we can NOT create anything. If humans did not create anything, how are we communicating? How do you get to work? Kinda funny how you dismiss what I say as a "theory" (One that every true scientist agrees with, I might add) yet you take the existence of a god (of which there is zero evidence for) as a fact. No person created my vocal box inside my throat as to what creates words, no person created my fingers of which i'm using to type on this computer. We built the computers we're using, but we didn't "create" them. And i seperate the two because we put together the pieces the computer is made of but we did not "CREATE" that substance. That substance all things are made of was already here before we were.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:08 PM
What existed before God then? And what evidence of this do you have? If you know of something i don't i would truely love to know, so go for it. sure no problem...the evidence I have is "believer's logic" that anything that exist has a creator ...if God exist then the same logic applies to God That's still an opinion and or your belief. There is absolutely nothing that even could prove evident in that theory. And if a theory can not be proven true then it could never be a fact. Cowboy......so are you saying that everything that exist doesn't need a creator? God doesn't because God ALWAYS has been and AWLWAYS will be. THINK about that funches. AWAYS has been, which would mean there would be no begining to that. Everything outside of God hasn't always been, it has been created.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 06:15 PM
I understand this, but inside the bible is the information that there was nothing before God. And i asked you to provide some form of information that there was something before God. Genesis states that God created the Heavens and the Earth ...it doesn't states that God didn't have ancestors

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:17 PM
I understand this, but inside the bible is the information that there was nothing before God. And i asked you to provide some form of information that there was something before God. Genesis states that God created the Heavens and the Earth ...it doesn't states that God didn't have ancestors Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last So if God is the beginning how would he have ancestors again?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 06:19 PM
God doesn't because God ALWAYS has been and AWLWAYS will be. THINK about that funches. AWAYS has been, which would mean there would be no begining to that. Everything outside of God hasn't always been, it has been created. Cowboy ...all I saying is just because God "always been"....doesn't mean that something else wasn't "always been" before God "always been"

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:20 PM
God doesn't because God ALWAYS has been and AWLWAYS will be. THINK about that funches. AWAYS has been, which would mean there would be no begining to that. Everything outside of God hasn't always been, it has been created. Cowboy ...all I saying is just because God "always been"....doesn't mean that something else wasn't "always been" before God "always been" and again Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Tue 07/06/10 06:20 PM
I understand this, but inside the bible is the information that there was nothing before God. And i asked you to provide some form of information that there was something before God. Genesis states that God created the Heavens and the Earth ...it doesn't states that God didn't have ancestors Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last So if God is the beginning how would he have ancestors again? didn't Jesus say the same thing....and didn't he have ancestors

Inkracer Joined Tue 12/16/08 Posts: 881	Tue 07/06/10 06:21 PM
God doesn't because God ALWAYS has been and AWLWAYS will be. THINK about that funches. AWAYS has been, which would mean there would be no begining to that. Everything outside of God hasn't always been, it has been created. Cowboy ...all I saying is just because God "always been"....doesn't mean that something else wasn't "always been" before God "always been" and again Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last A book, written by ancient goat herders does not equal evidence of a god.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Tue 07/06/10 06:22 PM
God doesn't because God ALWAYS has been and AWLWAYS will be. THINK about that funches. AWAYS has been, which would mean there would be no begining to that. Everything outside of God hasn't always been, it has been created. Cowboy ...all I saying is just because God "always been"....doesn't mean that something else wasn't "always been" before God "always been" and again Revelations 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last A book, written by ancient goat herders does not equal evidence of a god. It might not, but there is no proof in the oposite direction either.