sorry Peter_Pan....but you were referring to that paganism is Christianity....I didn't state that which is why you couldn't provide any posts in which I did....

You believe the world is round just because someone has told you and or came up with some pictures they claim to be of the world........ isn't that........ er......... delusional?

You believe that so and so is the ruler of this certain country because they have to you as such......... isn't that........ er.......... delusional?

You believe that Columbus discovered america because the history books tell us so....... isn't that....... er...... delusional?

You believe that there is no God because you haven't seen him/her...... isn't that........ er......... delusional?

funches, I'm going to assume that you are smart enough to know that by calling Christianity a form of paganism is the same as saying paganism is Christianity. The same way as saying paganism is Wicca, or paganism is satanism.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pagan
click it... read it... learn... By definition, paganism CANNOT be Christianity.


Actually though, that doesn't matter for my point to be made.

You made this claim in response to an exchange between CowboyGH and I.
"Catholicism is the only true form of Christianity, the rest of the sects believe that all they have to do is accept Jesus as their lord and savior and to hell with everything else, including to disregard the bible and the teachings of Jesus and choosing to commit sin and heathenous at every given opportunity .."

Had you read the previous posts, or at least understood them, you would have seen my claim that Catholicism is in fact, paganism. I gave numerous examples, some of which you and CowboyGH were discussing. It's obvious that you recognise paganism, your main error is calling Catholicism Christianity, when by your own admission, Catholicism is paganism. A "real" Christian cannot and will not believe or do pagans beliefs and rituals.
So, unless you can prove otherwise, Catholicism = paganism and my original question is perfectly valid... "So you thing paganism is Christianty also???" *thing should have been think*

Which would make your original words equivelant to: "Paganism is the only true form of Christianity..."

You believe that there is no God because you haven't seen him/her...... isn't that........ er......... delusional?

Peter_Pan ....it appears that during your conniption fits it's obvious that you do not read the posts because I've address your question about 5 pages ago...I've already posted in this thread that every religious belief is a pagan cult until or unless the government of which that belief is practice deemed it to be a religion and not a pagan cult...

and that Catholicism is the only true form of Christianity because other christian sects believe that all you have to do is accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and to hell with everything else ...they don't follow the bible or the teachings of Jesus and knowing commit sin and heathenous at every given opportunity

Cowboy .... why him-slash-her? ...see this is a perfect example of how Christianity has gone awry from Catholicism.....Catholicism would not refer to God as a him/her nor would a true Christian ...God is obviously a Man

I've met the world, I've even read about the world in a book, but never in any book did I read that the world loves me...and if I did...why would I believe it



delusional would be if I never met that ruler and read in a book that this ruler loves me....and actually believed it




Columbus didn't discover America...it was people already here, but never in any book did I read that a Columbus that I never met....loves me....and if I did...why would I believe it



God can not be prove to exist beyond a book ....and to believe that someone or something that can't be proved to exist beyond a book loves you because you read it in a book is delusional .....how many other people do you claim loves you because you read it in a book

wonder woman? ......pippi longstockings? ....little orphan annie? .....do you also believe they love you

"By definition, paganism CANNOT be Christianity."

Exactly what i was getting at about EVERYTHING. Nothing can be proven other then by a book or actually looking for yourself. And i tell you this, if you true heartedly searched for God, you would find him. If you truely searched for if we are really made up of a bunch of atoms, you would find it........ and so on. You can ONLY learn something by reading it in a book, or finding it for yourself. NOTHING jumps out and says here i am hehehehehe.

Exactly what i was getting at about EVERYTHING. Nothing can be proven other then by a book or actually looking for yourself. And i tell you this, if you true heartedly searched for God, you would find him. If you truely searched for if we are really made up of a bunch of atoms, you would find it........ and so on. You can ONLY learn something by reading it in a book, or finding it for yourself. NOTHING jumps out and says here i am hehehehehe.

Cowboy...if nothing can be proved by reading it in a book...then why do you believe that someone that died over 2,000 years ago that you never met loves you because you read it in a book that was written before you were born.... that is when your belief gets delusional

Any God who plays hide-and-seek yet demands that people obey him and love him is already an utterly asinine jerk.

What you seem to be missing here is that men aren't seeking the God you claim to worship. On the contrary, it's your God who is demanding that everyone worship and obey him.

The God you proselytize is a God who is hard-up to be worshiped. And look at how desperate you are to SELL him to people.



You also claim that this God isn't 'mean' to anyone just because they don't believe in him.

But your claims are an oxymoron.

If there is nothing to 'lose' by not 'finding' this God who plays hide-and-seek, then there is nothing to be 'saved' from. And therefore the very idea of a 'savior' is a meaningless idea.

Yet you claim that Jesus is the 'savior' which implies that he's 'saving' people from some undesirable fate. Which brings us back full-circle to a very "mean" God who will cause undesirable things to happen to anyone who refuses to love him on pure faith.

The God you describe is a hateful demon. He's a jealous egotistical pig who places himself above everyone. He clearly doesn't give a damn about anyone. Obviously your God doesn't even care about people as much as you claim to care about them because you appear to be even more desperate than Jesus was to "Save souls".

That means that your God is far less concerned about the souls of others than you are.

You're basically telling me that I can TRUST you to try to save my soul, but I can't TRUST your God to save my soul.

You worship a totally insensitive God who doesn't care about anyone but himself.

It's crazy. If God cared about me as much as you claim to care about me he'd be appearing before me right now to apologize to me for all the nasty crap that goes around around me in this godforsaken world.

The God you're preaching about can't possible exist, because your God clearly doesn't even show as much concern about other people as you do! And surely you can't be more compassionate than your very own creator? Therefore you're mere existence proves that your God can't possibly exist. Because you would be compassionately superior to your very own creator which would be impossible.

If there truly is a loving, caring, and wise God, then I'm certain that she will 'save' me from anything that might potentially harm me in an eternal way.

This jealous egotistical God that you describe apparently doesn't care about anyone but himself. Either bow down and worship him or DIE!

That's all he cares about. It's disgusting.

If you truly believe that God is loving you should become a Wiccan. They have a truly loving Goddess that you'd really like. She's far more in harmony with your compassionate views toward humanity.

You seem to be a nice guy Cowboy. You just got sucked into a really sick religion is all. I hope for your sake you find a religion that is better suited to the love and compassion you obviously seem to support. You're stepping on toes by worshiping a hateful religion.

Peter_Pan ...paganism like christianity can be anything a pagan christian wants it to be and it's nothing that you can do about it....so ...er...move on

And I thought that I and AndyBgood had proven to you that your view of Christianity was founded by mixing Christianity and paganism? There was a third also, a woman, except I forget who. So three people explaining the origins of the Roman Catholic Church, and providing links to external sources didn't convince you?

How 'bout I use the Bible to convince you?

1. Jesus said "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) What do they call a Catholic priest?
2. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Catholics pray to Mary, St. Jude, etc.
3. Crosses, statues, altars, etc. Idolotry, plain and simple...
4. X-mas and Easter. Both Pagan holidays...
5. Communion wafers - ritualistic cannabilism...
6. "The Lord's Prayer". Prayers should come from the heart, not a book...
7. Men, committees, whatever decided what goes into or was left out of their bibles.
8. The crusades. The Bible says to leave the unbelievers, not to waste time with them, so forcibly "converting" people to paganism is actually against the NT.
9. Confessions to a man. One is to confess their sins to God to be forgiven, not a mortal man.
10. Don't they still change their bible occasionaly???
10b. Doesn't the "Pope" decide what is to be considered a "sin"??? (not sure about the last 2, but they could be grouped together I suppose)


That's just a small example of how those that you consider to be "true" Christianity ignore what is actually written in the Bible.

Now let's see what things aren't written that your version of "true" Christianity does or thinks.

1. The pope is considered "divine" and unquestionable.
2. The virgin birth. A prophecy from the OT had to be misinterpreted to support that pagan construct...
3. Trinity. Another pagan concept, I forget the name of their 3-headed god though...
4. "Sacrificial Lamb of God" Ba'al, one of the moon goddess' many husbands, was the one that was appeased by blood sacrifices to atone for sins. "Innocent" children were said to have more power in their blood than others, hence, a perfectly sinless man (Jesus) is part of that sick story... (When Jesus is/was refered to as a "Lamb", it is in contrast to that of a "Lion", representing his kind and gentle nature, NOT to a sacrificial lamb)
5. Unquestionable "authority" of the bible. The Bible actually tells us that we are supposed to discern and seek the truth.
6. People being said to be "condemned to hell". It's God's judgement, not man's to decide that fate. And Jesus does not want us to judge anyone unless we ourselves are perfect. Case in point: When the woman was brought before Jesus under the accusation of adultery, where was the man who was involved? Was it one of the ones who brought her? Did the men simply not care about the man and wanted to persecute the woman or catch Jesus making a poor judgement? They did not bring the man involved, so each one was guilty of bearing false witness (hiding the truth is a bad as lying about it).



Well, I hope this convinces you that I was right when I said your view was paganism. It's about time you stop believing what you've been told and start learning for yourself. If you knew more about Judaism, then I wouldn't be so sure that all you know about "Christianty" (paganism), was told to you by an individual.

I'm sure that anyone who questions the accuracy of these statements will find sufficient evidence to see the light for themselves.

God doesn't play hide and seek. Your salvation doesn't effect God's life in any way. It is nothing but for us.

I'll answere your question with a question. Do you not want your kids to obey you? Would you want your kids running around calling other men dad?

Saved from ceasing to exist. Receiving the word of God then practising what you've received and then receiving the gift of heaven.

Jesus is a savior because he sacrificed his life. He lived not for himself, but to spread the knowledge of God. He spent his entire life to give us the chance to share in the gift of heaven.

Yes God is a jealouse God, but he is not egotistical. I mean come on, you seem to be a smart reasonable man. Would you not punish your children for claiming that you weren't their parent? No matter how much you cared or tried to show your love to them?

It's not God's job to save us from ceasing to exist. And just for referance to one of your posts about eternal punishment, there is no eternal punishment. You either recieve the gift of heaven and eternal life, or you cease to exist. But anyways, it's not God's job to seek you. Heaven is a gift...... a gift my friend. That is something earned in one way or other. You do not give your girlfriend gifts less she has earned them, eg., flowers, chocolates, ect. She has done something to earn you getting her these gifts. Same with heaven. We earn our way into heaven by being obediant to God.

Abra, does no response to this post mean that you agree with me?(Catholicism=paganism)

Salvation from what?



I wouldn't give them a reason to. I wouldn't abandon them in the first place to run off playing hide-and-seek.

Your constant analogy of the Biblical God as a parent never works, because as a parent the Biblical God represents an utterly horrible parent.

Even in your previous quote above you make out like God doesn't care about anyone but himself. That would be a truly ignorant and lousy parent.




So do you just 'ceasing to exist' to be a 'bad thing?

If not, then who needs to be 'saved' from it.

If so, then you come full-circle to God not caring that 'bad' things happen to his children.

You're stuck between a rock and a hard place with nowhere to go.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it to by trying to claim that merely ceasing to exist isn't "really" a bad, thing, but it's still somehow important that we be "saved" from that horrible fate.

If you can't see the oxymoron in that, then you have no sense of reasoning to begin with.

You've already rejected the Christian concept of Hell in order to try to "pretty up" your totally uncaring and disinterested "Fatherly" God. You're trying to paint him up to be a parent who can do no wrong and has no responsibility toward his children at all.

Yet you seem to care more about the fate of his children than he does.




Again, you seem to be suggesting that is it less desirable to not be selected for this so-called 'gift'.




No. I absolutely would not punish my children for claiming that I'm not their parent. Especially if I had abandoned them to run off and play hide-and-seek. How could I blame them?

I wouldn't blame them precisely because I AM intelligent.

You seem to be demanding that our creator is an utterly ignorant fool.




It's impossible to be obedient to a God who isn't here. All we have are hearsay mythologies that aren't anymore trustworthy than Greek Mythology and I imagine you dismiss Greek Mythology out of hand with no problem.

Your entire presentation of the biblical God is an oxymoron that demands that God is neither a good parent, nor even as wise as most mortal men.

Would you rather just cease to exist, or enjoy your loved ones for eternity?

===================
You've already rejected the Christian concept of Hell in order to try to "pretty up" your totally uncaring and disinterested "Fatherly" God. You're trying to paint him up to be a parent who can do no wrong and has no responsibility toward his children at all
===================
I have done no such thing. Specifically says in the bible hell was not made for man. And God is our father and does no wrong, and has tons of responsibility towards his children, have you eat'n today? Have you taken any breaths? Have you drank today?.......... who do you think gave you the opurtunity to do as such my friend?

What I would rather do is irrelevant.

You're the one who is trying to pretend that a God who doesn't care that his children cease to exist is a 'caring' Fatherly God.

As a mortal parent would you be so indifferent about whether you're children died spiritually?

Clearly you are compassionately superior to the very picture of God that you're trying to sell.

Yet you refuse to confront that truth.



Just because it says in the Bible that God does no wrong doesn't mean that it's true. Just by the very nature of abandoning his children he's done wrong.

Also, you ask utterly superficial question.

Did I eat today? Yes.

However, if you check world statistics you'll find that a LOT of people died of starvation today.

Did I drink today? Yes.

But I imagine there probably were some people who died of dehydration today.

Did I breath today? Yes.

But I'm certain that if you check all the news reports all over the world you'll find that a lot of people drowned today.

Besides, those kinds of questions are utterly meaningless. Atheism could be true and we'd still eat, drink, and breath because that's a fact of physical life.

There is certainly no God baby-sitting each and every individual spoon feeding them their needs. If a God did create this universe he/she/it created it with all those things built-in. And evidently they are built-in on a 'first-come first-serve' basis. A lot of righteous decent people have bad things happen to them and die young.

Nothing you ever present is actually convincing in any way.

The picture of God that you demand we believe in simply doesn't represent a responsible parent. It clearly represents a creator who couldn't care less about anyone.

Like I say, if you prefer to believe in a truly caring God you should check out Wicca. At least their Goddess is genuinely loving.

I'm just saying. If it's important to you that God is all-loving I think you've picked the wrong religion to worship.

You'd do yourself a favor by picking a religion that better matches how you'd like God to be.