Your responce in no way referances ANYTHING i've said. We aren't to worship Jesus. We worship God. Jesus is the light and the pathway to God. But again we don't worship "Jesus" we worship God.

So in other words you agree with Deepak Chopra. Jesus wasn't God anymore than you or I are God. He was simply pointing to God. And as he did that he basically suggested that we are all God. Whatever you do to your brother you also do to Jesus. In other words, we are all Jesus. Jesus was teaching pantheism and the fact that we are indeed God. To worship God is to do nothing other than worship the true essence of who we truly are.

We must love ourselves (i.e. God) before we can love another.

Ok, I understand now. Thanks for sharing.

And now I understand when you claim that God is inept, morraly inferior, pety and whatever else you claim that is insulting.

I have never claimed that God is inept.

All I've ever done is try to point out that certain mythologies portray God as being inept, and therefore they obviously cannot be true.

Why can they not be true?

Because I hold that God is not inept.

Precisely the opposite of what you claim to have 'understood'.

Not quite...

Even if you only claim that the mythologies portray God as inept, you then use the same mythology to portray yourself as "God".

So where does that leave us? With you indirectly insulting yourself a lot...

So in other words you agree with Deepak Chopra. Jesus wasn't God anymore than you or I are God. He was simply pointing to God. And as he did that he basically suggested that we are all God. Whatever you do to your brother you also do to Jesus. In other words, we are all Jesus. Jesus was teaching pantheism and the fact that we are indeed God. To worship God is to do nothing other than worship the true essence of who we truly are.

We must love ourselves (i.e. God) before we can love another.

Ok, I understand now. Thanks for sharing.

The mythologies are the ones that are an abomination to our creator. To support those demeaning pictures, which includes the Biblical picture, is to support the degradation of God.

Hmmm, you use the Biblical picture to portray yourself as "God"...
How is that not supporting said "mythology"?

I do no such thing. I merely point out the fact that even the gospels have Jesus supporting a pantheistic view. I’ve already made it crystal clear that I don’t believe that Jesus was the Only Begotten Son of God. So I denounce the biblical ‘mythology’ altogether.

The pantheist view is not a ‘mythology’. There is no need to believe in any mythology to believe in the pantheistic view. It’s a philosophy, not a mythology.

There seem to be three main ideas floating around in the world when it comes to the question of ‘creation’.

1. The idea of a ‘perfect personified creator’, who created a perfect world, and mankind screwed it up.
2. The idea that life is but a dream and we are the dreamer (pantheism)
3. The idea that life is the result of some sort of random physical explosion (atheism)

Christianity is the most popular idea of the first type in today’s modern world. The belief is that a perfect God created a perfect world and mankind is somehow responsible for having screwed everything all up. Some people even blame mankind for things like disease etc., and they totally reject the fact that animals eat each other as being ‘imperfect’. Thus the idea behind Christianity is that all men are ‘sinners’ (responsible for being imperfect) and need to repent.

Christianity deals with the “problem” of evil by blaming it all on man, because obviously a perfect God cannot be held responsible for having created evil.

The real irony in the Christian tale is indeed the fact that it is based entirely on a mythological story that has this supposedly all-wise, and all-perfect God doing extremely unwise and imperfect things. Not the least of which is having his only begotten son nailed to a pole to save mankind from their evil sins. That would certainly qualify as one of the most “imperfect” acts ever.

Pantheism is most popularly seen in Eastern Mystical philosophies and religions. And in some cases it too has become entwined with mythologies (as humans love to do with their religious beliefs), but overall in essence is it not dependent upon any mythology since fundamentally it’s really just a very wise philosophy.

Pantheism does away with the concept of ‘evil’ by simply suggesting that no such thing even exists. Life is a dream, and evil is nothing more than a judgment made by us. Evil represents things we simply don’t like. Thus we ‘create’ evil via our very judgments and refusal to accept things as they are.

Atheism actually has the best answer of all. For Atheism the so-called ‘problem’ of evil is a no-brainer. Evil is really nothing more than ‘imperfection’ and since the world is a random physical accident, then there’s no reason to expect that it should be perfect. So one would expect there to be ‘imperfections’ and thus ‘evil’ in the world.

I’m agnostic. (meaning I am without knowledge of which of these pictures might actually be true)

However, I think the first picture can be set aside as being utterly absurd. The very idea of a perfect creator who created a perfect world, and then mankind screwed it up actually give mankind more POWER then God. Besides, like I say, the mythology that it’s based on doesn’t even portray a ‘perfect’ God anyway.

Of the theisms, I think Pantheism makes the most sense. It’s just the most reasonable and logical as far as I’m concerned.

Atheism may very well be true. However, in light of modern physics, the very notion of a ‘physical’ universe has come into question. There are no actual billiard balls at the foundation of physics. Scientists have lost their balls. And so even the physical view of the world has taken on a ‘dreamlike’ quality that the pantheists had already imagined in their philosophy.

Moreover, even the atheistic picture has us all made of star stuff (and of quantum stuff) which boils down to the idea that we are all basically just an incarnation of the same inseparable and interconnected ‘stuff’, and that brings us right back around to pantheism again. “Tat t’vam, asi” You are that.

This is that, that is that, you are that, I am that, and that is all that is.

Makes sense to me.

"Christianity deals with the “problem” of evil by blaming it all on man, because obviously a perfect God cannot be held responsible for having created evil.

"The real irony in the Christian tale is indeed the fact that it is based entirely on a mythological story that has this supposedly all-wise, and all-perfect God doing extremely unwise and imperfect things. Not the least of which is having his only begotten son nailed to a pole to save mankind from their evil sins. That would certainly qualify as one of the most “imperfect” acts ever."
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God did nothing imperfect or unwise. You either get two options
1. God creates everything without free will to create an absolute perfect world/heaven. Where no one does anything wrong or disobeys in aaaaaaaaaaanyway.

2. God creates everything with free will, and everything is perfect when he created them. But people use their own free will with their actions to destroy it and or disobey. And can be tempted/tested by an evil being using also his free will to try to make you disobey God.

There is NO inbetween with that. We either have free will and do things we want, or not have free will and do everything perfectly as God wants. Which then is what we want as to uplift and glorify our father in heaven.

Well, there's several problems with your theory.

1. Free Will does not automatically equate to evil.
2. Based on what you say here, there can be no such thing a Free Will in heaven.
3. We know that that world was imperfect before mankind came onto the scene.
4. The actions and behavior of the God described in the Christian doctrine neither represents a perfect God, nor even a wise one.

So the Christian doctrine doesn't even suggest the existence of a "perfect God" in the first place. The stories simply aren't consistent with that ideal.

Even with your volcano example, it is still brought upon us by our actions. God didn't put people down wind from a volcano, people willingly moved there. So why blame God for peoples choices?

My point was a bit simpler...

Diseases exist now.
they did also then.
Mankind did not make them.
mankind simply lives with them.
'sickness' is a part of the circle of life.
Another part of creation...

to blame them on mankind or the action of mankind is to believe in a falsness.

Falsness can not be of god.

Disease/sickness is brought on us by living dirty lives. If everyone was to keep things clean, disease would vanish. I don't just mean objects either, i mean bathing as well.

Disease/sickness is brought on us by living dirty lives. If everyone was to keep things clean, disease would vanish. I don't just mean objects either, i mean bathing as well.

Not true.

A lot of diseases are spread by animals such as mosquitoes, ticks, etc. Some diseases are genetic. Especially mental diseases. Some diseases are airborn virues and you can hardly stop breathing just to prevent them.

You can reduce your chances of contracting diseases. In fact we do this very thing by using vaccinations. A scientific medical treatment that would never have been discovered if everyone adhered solely to the religious superstition that everything depends solely on a belief in God and good behavior. A belief and good and good personal hygiene only goes so far.

In fact, your stance on this topic only serves to show just how dangerous religious fanatical thinking can actually be.

What you are suggesting borderlines on fantatical cult thinking along the lines of Jim Jones and others.

This is why these religious cults that worship superstitions can indeed be dangerous and should be legally controlled to prevent them from causing harm to people.

This kind of thinking is just Christianity gone berserk. I used to be a Christian and no one at my church ever suggested the absurd things that you are preaching in then name of Jesus. On the contrary, they fully support doctors and modern medicine as a means of battling disease. They fully recognize that disease is not a result of the behavior of mankind, although obviously poor hygiene can indeed be a contributing factor. But it's clearly not the only factor.

This is the problem with people who become "Jesus Freaks", they lose sight of reality altogether. You're just demonstrating how the religion can indeed cause some people to lose touch with reality.

Would take a while, but it would still happen. You said no because masquitos, ticks, ect. Misquitos and ticks only get those diseases from other beings though. And you talk about genetic diseases, that is only cause either the mother or dad was carrying that disease.
See all these got it from someone else that had it.

It's a domino effect pretty much. But it can still be stopped.

And yes disease is naturally accuring, but it's dormant most usually less there is some variants that feed and awaken those diseases. Cause and effect sort of things.

All that just to save a mythology that claims that you are so nasty that God had to have his only begotten son nailed to a pole to pay for your bad behavior?

With all due respect, I'm just not that anxious to save such a dismal depressing mythology.

I'd rather move on to a more positive view of both God and Mankind.

I mean if we're going to have FAITH, why not place our faith in something positive? Why cling to these ancient morbid mythologies that have us in the dog house with a god who is appeased by having people nailed to poles?

I just don't see the value in such a morbid philosophy.

I mean even most atheists have enough common sense to maintain good hygiene. So I don't think that religion is a large factor in that.

In fact, didn't Jesus even say something to the effect that what goes into your mouth is not nearly as important as what comes out of it? I personally don't think he was preaching lessons on how to perfect your physical hygiene.

"I mean if we're going to have FAITH, why not place our faith in something positive? Why cling to these ancient morbid mythologies that have us in the dog house with a god who is appeased by having people nailed to poles?"
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What is not positive about knowing of how much God loves us all?. How much God gives us everyday and blesses us tremendousely without us deserving one bit of it? Ask and ye shall receive God tells us. And that is exactly true.
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"I just don't see the value in such a morbid philosophy."
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Nothing is morbid about anything. God didn't "have" Jesus do that. Jesus out love for us all did himself. He knew that if he continued to teach us the gosple they would do as such. And Jesus was willing to do this regardless of the outcome. That's where the sacrifice is, it's the life Jesus led so that we could all have a chance at having a place in heaven. The sacrifice wasn't Jesus being crucified, it was his devoted life to serving God and teaching us of the way to God. Nothing morbid about anything.