It's either out of desperation or it's a political move to get the confidence of Arizonan's come November.

I don't know how many remember a few years ago, Oklahoma adopted a law very similar?

Oklahoma targets illegal immigrants with tough new law
TULSA, Oklahoma
Mon November 5, 2007

(CNN) -- Weeks of protests, rallies, lawsuits and candlelight vigils failed to stop a new state immigration bill -- HB 1804 -- from becoming the law in Oklahoma.

The law went into effect Thursday and is intended to make life difficult for illegal immigrants in Oklahoma.

A few points of Oklahoma's Immigration Law, HB1804

Section 4 of HB 1804 restricts the issuing of certain
identification documents to citizens, nationals and
legal permanent residents.

Specific language referring to:
1. Drivers licenses and non-driver identification cards:
• Temporary cards can be issued to one who is not a citizen or legal
permanent legal resident as long as the applicant shows proof of valid
immigration status and the card clearly indicates the expiration date of
the card;
• For temporary residents with a current drivers license in good standing,
DPS may automatically renew the license unless notified by authorities of
a “reasonable suspicion” that the individual is in the country illegally.

Specific language referring to:
2. School identification cards

Schools may issue the same identification document
to all students without regard to legal status so long as
the identification clearly and conspicuously states that
it is only valid for use on the campus or facility of that
educational institutional

The bill differentiates three categories of
employers subject to different requirements
(Section 6 + 7):
1. All public employers must participate in the Basic Pilot
Program (or an equivalent Status Verification System) to
verify the employment authorization of all new hires by
November 1, 2007;

2. All private entities entering into a new contract or
subcontract with a public employer must participate in the
Basic Pilot Program (or an equivalent Status Verification
System) to verify the employment authorization of all new
hires by July 1, 2008

The bill does not attempt to compel other private
employers to participate in the Basic Pilot Program. But, it
says that:

You may be subject to a “discriminatory practice” complaint
filed with the Oklahoma Human Rights Commission:

– If you do not participate in the Basic Pilot Program (or
equivalent Status Verification System); and

– You terminate a US citizen or permanent resident alien while at
the same time knowingly employing an unauthorized alien in a
similar job anywhere in Oklahoma;

The bill also includes language (Section 9) requiring the
withholding of income tax by a contracting entity if individual
independent contractors do not document their employment
authorization

Three sections of the law relate to law
enforcement:

1. Section 3 makes it a felony offence to transport, conceal,
harbor or shelter from detention an alien “knowing or in
reckless disregard” of the person’s illegal status;

2. Section 5 requires jail authorities to attempt to determine
the citizenship status of anyone charged with a felony
offence or DUI;

3. Section 10 requires the state Attorney General to
negotiate a Memorandum of Understanding with the
federal government concerning enforcement of federal
immigration and customs laws.

Section 3 makes it a felony offence to transport,
conceal, harbor or shelter from detention an
alien “knowing or in reckless disregard” of the
person’s illegal presence

Imposes punishment of up to 1 year in prison and a
$1,000 fine
The bill exempts the provision of state or local public
benefits or regulated health services provided by a
private charity

Section 5 requires jail authorities to attempt to verify
the citizenship status of anyone charged with a
felony offence or DUI
– The requirement applies to anyone confined for any
length of time by a municipal, county or regional jail;
– In cases of foreign nationals whose lawful presence
cannot be verified based on documents in the prisoner’s
possession, the jail official will have 48 hours to make an
inquiry to federal officials and to notify the Department of
Homeland Security;
– For bond purposes, anyone determined to be unlawfully
present is deemed a flight risk

That print wuz too small. I couldn't read it.

Oh but if you are for Immigration Enforcement you are a racist.


Immigration Enforcement is racism.


People who are for Immigration Enforcement are racists!


But I am not insulting you for being for Immigration Enforcement.


Cough Cough...

Willing2, You need to make the letters BIGGER! I cant read them! Something about Oklahoma but it is all too hazy. I think all the Pot I smoke has blinded me!


I could not stop laughing after the last sentence of you post!

I hope the posters who have been at odds with us finally understand what I am trying to say here now! It is one thing to have a differing view point. It is statements like these that ARE insults no matter how you try to sweeten them with "I never said that!"

Am I being Condescending or am I showing people what they have been doing to us to spark up the antisocial discourses that have erupted today?

And yes again I was a bad boy. At least I am big enough to admit that!

Considering that you are still wrong, I guess all is okay.

Now in my short to the point sentences I will reiterate yet again what I said.

I have no issues with immigration. I have no issue with enforcing immigration as long as it is extremely humane and done with diplomacy.

To target a race of people by saying a person can "suspect" they are illegal on SIGHT is racist. Making Arizona's law racist.

Since illegal aliens run the gamet of races and cultures it is unfair to target one "on sight".

Racism has been in this country so long there are instances when people (maybe Arizona) don't realize they are being racist. Someone has to let them know.

Blind is as blind says! Humane? How exactly? We don't beat and kill them. They are lucky we are as sensitive to them as we are!

You just want to keep the hands of the cops tied behind their backs.

I take it you are also antidisestablismentarianistic too?

You spend way too much time telling me I am wrong! You spend way too much time telling a lot of us we are wrong.

There is no sane way you can convince me that not enforcing the law is good. You cannot convince me immigration enforcement is racist. There is no way with limited semantics, paraphrased information dredged from google, and ignorance of satellite facts about this issue you can even remotely convince me you are right at all with "you are just wrong."

I would almost swear you are a Cop hating anarchist now!

When you constantly litanize in brief statements how racist others are that hides the fact of your own prejudices you suppress openly but let out in other releases. This is BLATANT projection.

It is crap like this in congress which keeps anyone from addressing any issue rationally. So what is your answer Mrs. Know It All?

What is your brilliant solution to dealing with illegal immigration? Give them all a hug, a driver's license, and welfare? If so I am glad YOU are paying for it all! OH BUT WAIT! WE ALL ARE PAYING NOW!

I am sick of paying for criminal activity!

Enough SAID!

Oh but I am still wrong, right? PLEASE TELL ME HOW WE CAN DEAL WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! I AM SO EAGER TO KNOW!

Most think the planet is some dead thing they can just claim...
Nobody owns the planet, and it's not nice to fool with mother nature.

Not enough fighting all over the world..lets get some homegrown wars going over those who look and speak different, yeah that's gonna bring peace and balance to the planet.

I believe you are the blind one who doesn't realize what he does.

You will never figure me out because you don't have an open enough mind to see me.

You are wrong to say I don't believe in immigration control. I do. I regret that the issue has gotten to be what it is now. But I will never be okay with anything being racist or inhumane to "correct" the mistakes of the past. We are talking about human families here. Get the border manned and under control first off. Then get all the illegals here from all countries identified and punished with fines or something and put them to the end of the line for legitimate legalization. Deportation is too expensive across the board, not saying it should not be used at all but not across the board.

That is my idea of what immigration reform or control should be.

Racism is never acceptable for solving anything in our government, never! All racist ideals that still exist need to be extinguished. And there are quite a few still around.

You cannot label me into any of your little labels. I am too complex for that.

Projection is not happening from me. I speak of racist ideals that exist in this country. I never speak of anyone on these boards being a racist because I don't know them well enough to say that they are. If they take the racist ideals I speak of and personalize them, I cannot do anything there but say I never meant for them to take it personally.

I am big enough to apologize for that which was misunderstood. I will never stop fighting against prejudice and racism though. It is one of my fights that life has handed me.

You have personalized the fact that racism happens in this country and most of it is still white racism against other races. I did not call you a racist. I don't know you at all to say that.

Just as you do not know me at all.

So I take it personal accountability does not apply to them either?

Get over yourself. I can give a rat's azz less about children of the other guy! Why are they having six or more children when they can't afford them let alone having any? And then we have to steal from our own children to lend support for theirs? So sorry but NO WAY! I also refuse to reward irresponsibility!

All this Humanitarian stuff only goes so far. My sympathy levels have been seriously been depleted for "the struggling masses."

I can care less how you word it. I can care less how you try to rationalize it. Humans are over running the planet. this whole idea we are here to save them is CRAP. They need to save themselves. They need to fix their own countries. THEY need to learn to stop having babies for the sake of having babies.

But then again you cannot see the problems their lack of self responsibility have caused them in their own nations and now we are to embrace them here?

You cannot have it both ways. Either the police can do their job or they can't. So what is it? Immigration Enforcement or turn a blind eye? You cannot have it both ways. Quit trying to blur the issue with the topic of Racism. Also using Humanitarian and Humane treatment is an excuse! the Japanese Naturalized Citizens that got interred during WWII were treated FAR worst than present day illegal aliens. I bet you don't even have a clue what they lost in comparison to Illegal immigrants! try loosing everything you earned when you came to the is country! try being a citizen and loosing your home and lively hood becasue of fear during war time. ODDLY present day citizens of Japanese descent do not even bring that up. Why? becasue they prospered by their own work! They didn't whine about how victimized so many blacks to to this very day about slavery in the late 1800s. Maybe if we tossed illegal immigrants in hard labor prison, fed them nothing but bologna sandwiches three times a day, and beat them savagely if they got out of line maybe that would better suit your argument? Oh no! We have to treat them humanely! Like we already don't? And how do the Mexicans treat their own? OH YOU DON'T TRUST THE MEDIA! All those reports of Mexican drug violence are a lie as well?

Every advance we make in tolerance arguments like yours set back 100 or more years! If we have to be personally accountable so do they! I personally will abide nothing less! many many others share that opinion.

And you try to hide behind vain morals and personal vanity!

Yep. I am just so wrong! Wee ha!

So how about their lack of personal accountability?

OK - lets rope this topic back in. Here are two questions, open to whomever feels they have a viable response/solution.

Just for those who are not used to thinking critically, let me remind you that viable options usually consider a big picture, including current law and consequneces of your proposed solution.

Here are the questions:

1. How would you propose we handle the immigrants already here,
legal or not?

2. How would you suggest we improve illegal entry into our country?

#1. If they are self supporting, give them a temp work visa. Renewable as long as they keep a job and support themselves. The ones who require public assistance should go out of the country.

#2. I think illegal entry into our country does not need to be improved, seems to be working fine at the moment I presume you meant halting, or at least slowing illegal entry. I think we should make it easier to get in legally. Give 30 day visas so they can find a job, then extend the visa if they get one. If they do not, boot them back out. If they have a job that lasts only seasonally, have their visa expire 30 days after the job ends. And require verification from employers with significant enforceable penalties for not following the law.

FINALLY! RATIONAL AND INTELLIGENT THINKING HERE!



Thank YOU!

however the law dictates,,,currently I believe its being kicked out without permission to ever reenter...


enforce the current laws, crack down on the employers providing incentives for the crime to continue,,,

1. The legals are just fine and dandy. The Illegals, no matter how long they've been here should be deported and if the pass all the tests for reentry, let them stand at the back of the line in Mexico.

2. Before, employers would present a form that listed how many temporary workers he needed and he would have access. I believe, if employers need workers, they should be financially responsible and liable for bringing them in and making sure they get back.

Like Microsoft,. If the job looks as if it's going to be permanent, just extend the VISA. If, for some reason the job becomes obsolete, Microsoft should be held accountable for making sure the Worker gets back to their country and not just allowed to wander.

A great example of imported contract work would be how the Saudis handle contract workers.

They provide housing, pay their wages, allow them 1 day to go shop or get out and look around. Many are contracted for 5 years at a time. The Gov. doesn't subsidize anything. The employer covers all, health care, food and housing.

We need caps on Immigrants who would like to become citizens and live here permanently.

I'd like to add one more very important note;
Before bringing in any foreign workers, make sure all those Americans who can work are hired first. If, there are jobs left over, fill them with foreign workers.

1. Since they are here illegally and broke the law, must pay a fine and given a temporary ID, which is only good for working, driving a car (and simple identification purposes) but no way and nohow is equivalent of a green card or citizenship and does not guarantee neither of those at all. To pay the fine, they get the choice to either do it as a lump sum, if they are unable to come up with the amount, they must pay it in partial payments and if they aren't even capable of that, they must do community work. Once they have this temporary ID, they must get in line for getting the green card, but they must be put back in line just like the rest of the legal applicants, meaning there is no advantage given, actually they fall back of the line for applying, since they broke the law.
Anyone caught not paying the fine will face deportation. Anyone caught without a temporary ID (they must register) will also face deportation immediately.

After a thorough background check (regardless if they applied for green card or not) these people will be determined if they are eligible to stay and to apply for the green card. Depending on the background search results, if the person found to have a criminal record, the person will be denied any sort of further approval for granting legal papers and will face deportation and/or given over to the appropriate authorities (based on their criminal record if any) of their originating country. Temporary ID means exactly jus that, temporary. It will be good enough for a certain amount of time (6months, 1 year 2 years) but once it is expired, the immigration services will determine whether they can re-apply for extension or not.

2. Interestingly, United States is well capable of defending the borders of other foreign countries (South Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq) but unable to provide security for its own country. With today's technology, it shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. UAVs, used for reconnaissance (unmanned aerial vehicles) can stay in air for 3-4 days now without landing (if not longer), and I'll be damned if they can't fixate satellites to spot illegal border crossings, while it's good for making Google maps so close to my house, that I can almost read my own license plate number on my car in the driveway. Dune buggies, electronic survaillance of the borders (this is done without building walls or anything) and enforcing and equipping border patrol with light flying vehicles, like helicopters goes a long way. No weapons needed, interestingly for riot control they are able to develop various tools and equipment which will disperse the crowd (ultra sonic riot vehicles) or tazer guns, etc.
Basically saying, that enforcing the border security is not a problem and anyone who tells otherwise is a liar.

OKAY. Let's say those Illegals who are given a fine. How much? 5, 10 thousand for every year they have been here?

Do they also make restitution to the folks who they stole IDs from as well. Will they serve the same amount of prison time as Americans for fraud and tax evasion?

If they are found to have used our Social Services, will they repay that and/or be jailed for that fraud as well?

If it's a yes to any or all of the above, should they be given the choice to be deported instead of fined/imprisoned, etc?

no special treatment,,the laws were broken,,,the proper checks were not made as to who they are and what they may or may not have done,,,,make them go through the process, OUTSIDE the US..with the exception of those who at least had permission to enter but let it expire,,

Now these are posts i wanted to see other than "You are just wrong!"

NOW THIS IS REFRESHING! I am seeing real ideas finally other than that tired old Diatribe of "You are racist and you are wrong."


Thank you all!!!


My faith in mankind has been restored!

Arizona has the right and duty to protect its borders, the Federal Gov. is failing to do so all along the borders.

It's 'politically incorrect' to do so because of fear of losing the Hispanic vote. and political campaign contributions.

The Federal Gov. is negligent in enforcement of its own laws and policies.

Now, YOU have my lil' heart doin' th' fast pitter-patter!

You are absolutely right and our reference is Section 4, Article 4 of our Constitution that they swore to uphold when they raised their right hand and placed their left hand on our Holy Bible.

Do I hear an AMEN??

..but think about this Mrs Obama was given first hand information about a girls mother who was an illegal ..and no one did anything about it..so since being that its against the law and she has first hand

knowledge of it..wouldnt that make her guilty after the fact..of course the Obama's aunt is also illegal but she sits in public housing ..but since it is against the law then it should be enforced..after all if you make exceptions for one law so should it be for all..and i'm italian not white and my ancestors had to abide by the immigration laws so why shouldn't everyone else..

..and we wont even mention the fact that we are in a WAR and that from the very beginning of 911 stricter control should have been placed on the borders in the first place..

..and we won't even begin to talk about the laws in Mexico concerning Americans...

..the law is the law and should be enforced....period end of story