jesus .. i wouldn't say hated the jewish religion.. he techinically is
the son of God i don't think he hated it, but he wanted to reform it,
that was his whole purpose was to reform judaism, but never to form
christianity.

So true. They have eyes but they see not. They have ears but they hear
not. They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They are
blinded to the reality of God. They are blinded by a belief system.
Jesus tried to explain this when he said that the peacemakers will see
God. God is love and that is why so many can't see God because they
can't see love. Love can be seen, felt, touched, heard and smelled.

Your all wrong!

Jesus was *the* original Hippy ......... long hair, wearing sandals, no regular job, going around saying "Peace, Brother". The founder of a popular cult.
Didn't some anthropologist recently find his stash box? Was empty except for a few seeds and a couple of roaches.:)

No but seriously.

Jesus could have been considered a Pagan since that term refers to a culture and not a race or religion. From Latin paganus, meaning a country dweller, rustic.

yeshuah was a practicing jew. he was of a consecrated sect called the nazarenes that never shave, or cut their hair or drink strong drink, they are celibate and do the will of the father.

Good point, Ghost. Jesus never shared a doobie with me but we sure got high a lot together.

So, Ghost do you think God was gay?

I think some here is smoked out...........

In 1st century ad when a person died they were put into a tomb. They also to keep down the smell used appr. 100 lbs of fragrances for this purpose. When the smell would of left after several months the family went into the tomb and would dismantle the bones. This being to save space and they would put them in a bone box enscribing the persons name. The slab that they were on was for the next relative. Now from scripture we know yahshua and apparently his family were poor. Also from scripture it is recorded that joseph of Aremeditha (sp?) asked for Yahshua's body. Taking it down and putting it in his tomb. He was a well off man. Scripture tells us also that around a 100 lbs of scents (smelling powder was also put on yahshua's body. now here we find that Yahshua rose from the dead not needing a burial bone box. this tomb though would of been passed on to his family. In the last few years they have found a burial bone box in a rich mans tomb with the enscribing "james or (Yahconam) brother of Yahshua. yet no bone box for the Historical Yahshua. This would follow scripture and custom of the time. Thier was no bone boxe for Yahshua because it was not needed. This is historical fact now at least for his brother james being placed in a rich mans tomb. You can find all this from BAR= Biblical Archelogical review. one magazine I would highly recommend.. Sahalom ... Miles

i see fit to correct some mis qouted scripture.
1.. the peacemakers will be called the sons of Elohim.

2 Yahshua was from the area of nazarene. He did not have the nazarite vowel on him. The vowel requires no fruit of the vine to be consumed. yahshua turned water to wine.
3 Corithians speak of the nature of man. he tells the people that a man should not have long hair.. If he did it was a shame. Yahshua was not a shame to anyone.

4 He did not come to change Yahweh's laws. He came to take away the death penalty of the law by his sacrafice. The pharasees and scribes wanted to attack and started to plot to kill him when he ran the money changers out. The prophecy that he would bring in and heal all that would believe would be accepted. this they hated him for even though Isa 56 speaks of this and the downfall of the temple keepers for denying that it was "a house of prayer"


Thier are several other quotes that are misleading on here but i am sure u get the picture.. may Yahweh Bless you.. Miles

"God became human so that humans might become God." Athanasius of Alexandria Athanasius of Alexandria (Greek: Αθανάσιος, Athanásios; c 293 – May 2, 373) was a Christian bishop, the Bishop of Alexandria, in the fourth century. He is revered as a saint by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic Churches, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Lutheran Church, the Anglican Communion, and the Oriental Orthodox Church, and regarded as a great leader of the Church by Protestants. He is the earliest living of those declared Doctors by the Roman Catholic Church, and he is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Eastern Church. His feast day is January 18 in the Eastern Orthodox Churches and May 2 in Western Christianity and the Coptic Orthodox Church.

Did I get that right "his feast day"... Miles

"So, Ghost do you think God was gay?"

Only if he had a lot of girls around as friends when he was young.
I heard that that is a tell tale sign that a young boy may turnout to be gay. I dunno?

Here's one for ya all.

IS "JESUS" A PAGAN NAME?
by Yahkov Hartley


In a recent Messianic magazine there appeared an article that purported to address the question,"Is the name "Jesus" pagan?" The article was clearly a defense of the use of the name "Jesus", in spite of that author's admission that this is not the "original" name (birth name) given to the Messiah (by his Jewish mother, Miryam). The article leaves the reader with the notion that "Jesus" is just as valid, if not more valid, than "Y'shua" (, a contraction of ) when referring to the Mashiach (Messiah). And it arrives at this "deduction" by the most obtuse etymology and stunted logic, ignoring the weightier matters of the issue. The "issue" raised in this article is a prize-winning canard designed to decoy the unwary from the real issue of the word "Jesus".

Early in the article, the author demonstrated the difficulty of transliterating from Hebrew to Greek and the ease of transliterating from Hebrew to English. A detailed letter-by-letter (from the Hebrew aleph-bet to the Greek alphabet) "transliteration" of the name, Y'shua to the Greek name, Iesous was brought forth as evidence. Because there are no equivalent sounds of many of the letters, this so called "transliteration" becomes in reality a translation. There is so little assonance between "Y'shua" and "Eeaysooce" that calling this a transliteration is an offense to even the most debased scholarship. There is no way to transliterate this name between these two languages! The best that can be done is to translate, which is what was done in the Septuagint by its Hebrew translators.

The name, Septuagint, is late-Latin (the ecclesiastical tongue of the Roman Corporate Church) from septem + ginta which hints at the 70 (approximately) translators who produced the Greek version of the Tanakh (the "Old" Testament). A study of the etymology of the word "Jesus", in even as mundane a source as the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, reveals that this name does not come directly from the Greek "Iesous", but derives from the early-Latin "Iesu", the "I" pronounced initially as a "Y" producing Yay-soo. The "I" in the middle-ages was differentiated into the "I' and the "J" in our Latin alphabet used for the English language. Thus, in late-Latin, the Iesou (Yaysoo) became Jesu (Jaysoo) which became Jesus in the English tongue. This relationship in the etymology is omitted by the author in his "apologetics".

Regardless, the word Jesus has no direct ancestry from the Greek Iesous, as is implied by the author, but at best, it derives from the late-Latin Jesu , a fact completely missing in the cited article. However, all of this etymology, even with the missing link provided above, is a decoy to distract our attention from the real problem with this word "Jesus."

We have never used the argument that Jesus is somehow a compound of Gee-Zeus (Zeus being the chief "god" of the Greek Pantheon) although there is certainly an extreme degree of assonance (which is the core of the art of transliteration) with the "Jesus" word. We have never pursued that possibility to any extent, since it is totally irrelevant. The only relevant issue is: What was/is the Messiah's name given him by his mother, Miryam, in accordance with the angelic messenger's revelation to her?

Since the author of the subject article didn't have any problems with the name Y'shua being the Messiah's "original" name (as opposed to some subsequent name Y'shua changed to?), why not look firstly, what is NOT at issue here. The issue is NOT, " whether the word Jesus is pagan!" The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Y'shua into Greek! The issue is NOT how to "transliterate" Greek Iesous into Latin! The issue is NOT even how to "transliterate" the Latin Jesu into English! The issue IS how to transliterate the real name, Y'shua, from the Hebrew, into English. We certainly don't need to go through Greek into Latin and then from Latin into English. Why would anyone want to take such a circuitous route, unless he's trying to "prove" the validity of the erroneousness, "Jesus?"

To transliterate from the Hebrew Y'shua to English, we merely go to Y'shua. Thus his name is pronounced Y'shua both in Hebrew and in English - perfect transliteration. What could be simpler? Whether Jesus is a pagan name isn't what matters! What matters is the fact that Jesus was never the name of the Messiah of the "New" Testament! Names aren't translated from one language to another, if it is possible to transliterate. If that is impossible (as in Hebrew to Greek) then there is no alternative but to translate. However, translation from one language to another frequently results in a change in the context and, almost always, the nuances of the original text! The change of the Messiah's name from Y'shua to Jesus certainly serves the purpose of obscuring his Jewish identity and his Jewish ministry dedicated to finding the "lost sheep of the House of Yisrael." History, both religious and secular, is clear that the "Church" has expended a vast effort to distance itself from the true nature, origins, and purpose of this Jewish messiah!

The "scholarship" of the subject article is a paradigm (an example) of eisegesis pawned off as exegesis. If this represents the "best" understanding that these people have about such issues, then they are woefully inadequate to be the tool to accomplish the reunion of the Two Houses and restoration of the united kingdom of Yisrael. The "churches" and their teachings have not, do not, and will not ever cause the Tribes of Judah to become jealous!! Nor will they be able to bring the genuine Messiah to his people (see Romans chapter 11).

It is no surprise that the number of "religious" people who want to bring "Jesus" to the Jews, clearly do not have a grasp of many of the Ephraim/Judah issues that plague the unity of those two Houses. Churchianity has been in the sun way too long, and it is going to be a tough process for them to discard the pagan and/or error filled baggage they bring with them. Judah (the Jew) has considerable Talmudic baggage to discard as well. I am reminded of the declaration of the prophet Hosea 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..."

We are not interested in bringing "Jesus" errors to Judah; there are already enough groups doing that. We do support bringing Y'shuah Ha Mashiach (Yahushua the Messiah) to both Ephraim and Judah: and there is an immense historical difference between Jesus and Y'shua. People's eternal life depends on acceptance of the genuine and rejection of the false.

Our king is totally opposed to perpetuating the centuries of misinformation and disinformation promulgated by the church leaders who have used their pulpits to disseminate their apostasy. The prophet to Israel, Jeremiah 16:19, prophecies: "O YHWH, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.'"

We need to examine the Scriptures from a Hebraic perspective (not always a Jewish perspective) in order to glean all the truth and nuances of the Hebrew writers of those books and arrive at the intended (by YHWH) understanding of the Hebrew words of YHWH to the people to whom He entrusted the oracles. Those people were NOT the "churches."

We take seriously the imperative in Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 58:1, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." We know that we are citizens of the Kingdom of YHWH and have no allegiance to any denomination on earth nor any man. Our Kohen HaGadol (High Priest) is Y'shua Ha Mashiach (Yahushua the Messiah) and he ministers in the Great Temple of YHWH our Father on our behalf.

Wow!

What an artical.

You can find it here.
http://yahushua.net/pagan_name.htm