The FREE WILL argument doesn't excuse poor communications.

It wouldn't harm our FREE WILL in any way for God to make sure that we fully understand precisely WHO he is, and precisely WHAT he expects from us. We would still have FREE WILL choice to either accept his directives or reject them.

In fact, your last statement implies that anyone who doesn't believe in Christianity has "Turned Against" God. That's utterly absurd.

I can assure you that I have not purposefully and knowingly "Turned Against" my creator. On the contrary, I decided that the religion that was believed by my parents and most of the society that I lived within is utterly stupid.

That's NOT turning against any God.

In fact, if you think that this could be taken as "Turning Against God" it only shows that you are unable to grasp this concept.

Before I can even "Turn Against" a God I must KNOW that it exists!

It would NOT interfere with anyone's FREE WILL for God to make himself known. In fact, there are examples in the Bible where God supposedly did make himself known to various people. Moses, Noah, Job, Joshuah, Matthew, just to name a few. In fact, according to Matthew God spoke to a whole crowd of people saying "This is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased". That didn't seem to interfere with their FREE WILL.

So the FREE WILL argument doesn't stand. If there is a God who exposes himself to a few, then he can expose himself to many. And there's no excuse for him to NOT expose himself and let people know he's for REAL.

Keeping people playing guessing games is to gamble with their souls. People would be losing out on their chance at "heaven" simply because God decided to shoot craps with their souls and not make sure that they fully understood the TRUTH.

As I have always said, I would most likely pass on this God's offer anyway, but that's beside the point. It wouldn't be that I'm "turning against him" it's only because I don't TRUST him.

Of course if he actually SHOWED HIMSELF and made crystal clear what's going down then may be he would be a little more TRUSTWORTHY. But as long as he's going to play craps, then why should I trust a God who gambles with souls by making them play betting games?



Well, I've given many examples in the past. However, the very fact that God hides from people and makes them GUESS which religion to believe (if any!) doesn't say much for his wisdom or trustworthiness. Based on the Biblical stories he's clearly CAPABLE of communicating with us, but chooses instead to force us to GUESS?

That's both ignorant and inept, IMHO.

I mean what kind of a GAME is he playing anyway?

Why should I TRUST a game-playing God?

If he doesn't take his heaven seriously then why should I?

You're describing a God who clearly doesn't CARE. Obviously the biblical God doesn't even CARE whether I guess correctly or not.

And the truly ignorant thing of it all is that this would mean that your God doesn't even give the slightest hoot about whether someone has a sincere heart or not. Because according to you everyone who has a sincere heart but refuses to believe in your game playing God will perish.

Your God doesn't give a damn at all about sincerity evidently.

Sincerity means nothing to him. Nothing at all. It's totally meaningless to him.

So knowing that this is the case why would I want to even serve a God who doesn't even give a damn about sincerity?

Like I say, the way your God is now with his dishonest hide-and-seek game playing, I wouldn't even want any part of his insincere heaven.

The God you describe is NOT a righteous God by my personal understanding of what it means to be "righteous".

It's as simple as that.

But it is God's CHOICE.

He could have chosen to be honest and forthright and make sure that everyone knows that there is only one valid religion. That would not interfere with anyone's "Free Will".

It would just be a matter of clear communication.

But God failed to do that and instead allows everyone to argue about which religion is true, or whether atheism might even be the case!

That's baloney.

You can't have a God claiming that Atheists are "Turning Against Him". That's utterly stupid.

They can't very well "Turn Against" something they don't even believe in.

No, a God who refuses to communicate to the best of his ability and keeps people guessing is worse that a God who merely throws dice. Your God quite literally plays craps with human souls.

It's a careless God. (i.e. an uncaring God)

And if God doesn't care, why should anyone else?

Who wants to serve an uncaring God for eternity?

If God will play craps with your soul when you are on Earth what other kinds of nasty tricks might he play on you when you enter into his heaven?

I wouldn't trust a gambling God who plays craps with human souls. And he even admits that he LOSES most of the time!

Last time i'm gonna say it, heaven is EARNED. It is earned by our faith and our obediance. Again, without trials and tribulations of some sort or other, there would be nothing to earn. That's what life is, it's not a test persay, but it is a chance to EARN our way into heaven. Yes God wants us all in heaven, but no it doesn't really matter to him weather we make it or not, for it is purely for US. He gains NOTHING for himself out of us going to heaven, it is PURELY FOR US.

We aren't "punished" for not believing in our father or listening. Heaven is a gift offered, nothing more, nothing less. We either work towards earning this gift of heaven and eternal life, or we cease to exist. No punishment or anything.

With all due respect, you must be some sort of delusional nut case.

When I was a Christian, I was seriously considering teaching the "Word of God" which I had been told was in fact the Bible.

So I studied it in earnest so that I could teach is sensibly. What I very quickly discovered is that there is nothing sensible about it. I later learned that the Greatest minds in all of humanity came to the same conclusion, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton and many others.

Your constant demands that God is always there to help us simply doesn't pan out. Where was God when I need help understanding HIS BOOK? Clearly that book must not be from God! If there is a God she actually helped me to see how totally artificial the Biblical picture of God truly is!



Again, you totally miss the point, or you're purposefully avoiding it.

Playing guessing games has nothing to do with EARNING anything.

The Bible cannot be the word of God.

If there is a God it has nothing to do with the Bible.

You're not selling God, you're trying to sell the BIBLE as God!

The Bible is a farce. It's a lie.

A belief in the Bible doesn't EARN you any points!

If heaven is to be EARNED it probably needs to be EARNED in the way that Buddha taught and Jesus REPEATED.

Jesus did NOT support the teachings of Yahweh and could not have been his son. Jesus taught the teachings of Buddha. Not the teachings of the Old Testament.

The picture of God that you paint is a picture of a totally uncaring haphazard untrustworthy God. A God who would stab you in the back at a moments notice simply because you did something that you weren't even aware would upset him because you failed to guess correctly.

A God who plays craps with your soul and loses most of the time by his own admission.

Like I say, even if your God were real I would reject his offer to serve him for eternity and gladly take him up on the far better offer of just allowing me to perish.

Of course, even that is your OWN fabrication! Most Christians would have God casting me into the pits of hell for eternal damnation.

You're a Christian heretic already right along side Bishop Carlton Pearson. As far as the Christians are concerned you're already hell-bound for renouncing hell itself.

You're a heathen who turned against God!

Join the club fellow heathen.

Well, I'm going to sing back into the depths of the scientifically illiterated - just for a moment here.

I think Chistianity, in fact all religion is just a "theory".

Its proponents have free-will and they use it (and a lot of creativity)to interpret one set of writings in more ways that there are words in all the scriptures they use.

Religions also 'evolve' they actually become 'genetically' different from what originally spawned them.

Also, the main character or characters as the case may be, are given human attributes even though they are not physical beings.

I could go on, but that's enough to prove that religion is just a 'theory'.

Some poeple put thier faith in one or another theory of god even though there is absolutely no way to test the accuracy of any hypothesis that questions the theory. Yet most of those people somehow find comfort in the illusive qualities embeded in the theory - perhaps there's comfort in know you can just make it up as you go along.

Some people put their faith in more scientific theoryies, they go on cruizes, fly in plains, use technology, go into outerspace, and with the help of modern medicine, they live longer, healthier, and more active lives. Perhaps most of those people are more comfortable with 'theories' in which the quantifiable outcomes of hypotheses are more statically favorable than just making it up as you go along.

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You're not selling God, you're trying to sell the BIBLE as God!

The Bible is a farce. It's a lie.
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I'm not selling anything, and if you don't believe in the bible and what it says, go for it man. That's your choice of using your free will which God allowed us to have.

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The picture of God that you paint is a picture of a totally uncaring haphazard untrustworthy God. A God who would stab you in the back at a moments notice simply because you did something that you weren't even aware would upset him because you failed to guess correctly.
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And you're good at this. You claim things, but have nothing to back it up with.... hmmmmmm.

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Of course, even that is your OWN fabrication! Most Christians would have God casting me into the pits of hell for eternal damnation.
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No, it's the CHRISTIAN knowledge there is no eternal damnation or anything. You either recieve the gift of heaven/eteral life, or you cease to exist.

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Like I say, even if your God were real I would reject his offer to serve him for eternity and gladly take him up on the far better offer of just allowing me to perish.
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And that is your choice, more power to yah brother.

When you look down into it, EVERYTHING is a theory/hypothesis. There is no way to say for fact tomarrow will come, it's nevertheless a theory of previouse actions. You make plans for the next day, what are those? ........ they are the theories and or hypothesis' of what you're going to do the next day. NOTHING is actually concrete fact.

If what you say here is true then why should anyone care?

Like I say, I'm not so sure I would even want this supposed "gift".

Let's here the details of exactly what's being offered. Why should I work toward something I'm not even sure I'd want. Where's the description of this "prize"?

You seem to think that heaven is going to be all fun and games. You've posted before that you expect that you will be able to do whatever you want whenever you want and you sound like you're expecting to have total freedom in heaven.

But that's not the picture the Bible paints. The Bible talks about serving the will of God, not just going off doing whatever makes you happy. You may not like what God has in mind for you.

This is why I would much rather perish. If Earth is an example of God's work, and the Bible is an example of his ability to communicate, then I'm not convinced in the least that I would want to serve his will for eternity. I would fear that I wouldn't even be able to understand what he wants most of the time. His book is extremely confusing and ambiguous. I also don't care for the way he behaves. Why would I want to serve him?

So the prize of perishing sounds like the better deal to me!

The sooner the better. Tell him to strike me dead right now. That will be fine with me. Why waste anymore time? I've already made my decision. I want no parts of his so-called "Heaven".

I'm 61 years old. I've been tortured long enough. Just let me die. That's the only wish I have.

Let's pray,

Dear God in heaven (or wherever you're hiding tonight),

I've considered your offer for eternal life and I'm not interested.
Please terminate me at your earliest possible convenience.

Thank you,
Abra

P.S.
If you're going to stall on this request like you've done on all the others could you at least send me some cash now to pay my taxes until you finally get around to doing me in.

Oh yeah, Tell Jesus and Buddha I said Hi. If you ever die and make one of them God then maybe they can re-create me. I might not mind living in one of their heavens. Make sure you give them my DNA coding and my current brain-scan so they can reproduce me precisely as I am. Only maybe leave off the hemorrhoids.

The ancient Egyptions were doing brain surgery and C-sections on women with birthing difficulties. The early Hebrews with their nomadic ways learned a great deal about medicine.

All those LAWS dealing with food (Kosher) and cleanliness in the Old Covenant that some Christians say were no longer valid after Jesus - are not being very logical. Kosher was more than a blessing by the Rabbi. Without those Laws the small Hebrew clans of nomads would have died out - obviously someone had to create a cookbook and MAKE IT LAW so that their families would continue.

Of course they knew much about the structure of the human body and in any society Matriarcal or Patiarcal any difference between the genders is fair game for mythology through which to support the gender in charge.

Well it's your choice my friend. And if you're just gonna totally refuse and deny it, there's nothing more i can do. What you do today, you'll have to sleep with tonight, i hope you have a great life my friend. Hope all your family and friends grow prosperous in life. Much love out to you and yours.

Very good, they were intelligent people. But we're talking about waaaay before this all came about. "Bible" were written after this, but the scriptures of the bible was written way before this. So therefor you've provided nothing that associates the knowledge of women having 1 more rib then men being known outside of the bible as early as the scriptures were written.

the bible did get some names close to things that create life and destroy

example:
Adam= atom,creates

Eve=Blackhole,destroys

In the 1950's Miller & Urey deomonstrated that the simple prehistoric atmospheric gases of Earth (methane, ammonia, water, carbon-dioxide,) and a low quantity of a few others, when subjected to electric pulses produced all the major molecules required by RNA.

All life forms on Earth utilize the same encoding molecule: Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA). The ability of DNA to copy itself provides the basis of heredity. Today, most microbiologists believe that RNA was the original genetic material of life. RNA can be produced in a laboratory and like DNA it possesses self-replicating ability. This is what leads scientist to believe that live began in the coding process of RNA.

If RNA can spring forth from a few gases, a little solvent and some electricity - then life could have started from clay (or brown goo).



In Earth's early atmosphere, besides the elements, there was lightning - due to the winds. the combination of gasses that ere placed in a tube were subjected to 'lightening' via electric pulses. After a few weeks a brown goo developed, which had all the elements needed to develope the RNA molecule.

Yes, it does seem more logical to a mind that has not beem exposed to current scientific data. NOW, it seems more logical that our physical form was originally derived from a handfull of gasses and some liquid with the help of some electricity.

Frankenstein's we might all be.

Oh, it might also be noted that the physiology of women seems to have made it necessary for one less rib.

Becasue no one needs to know about God or Jesus to have the same opportunity for eternal life. That was the purpose and function of Jesus - to forgive humans for their innate sinful nature so they could be judged on works and not on belief, ritual, or failure to adhere to customs and moralities they are not familiar with.

So why intrude on others? Let them act within the context of the moral structures which quide the society to which they belong.

That would be the moral thing to do - and if condidered in that way, it might be judged to be a 'good' work.

Do you then not consider it a fact that your great great great great grandparents all humans?

Has anyone heard from God lately about what's in the food we eat?
I realize the Old Laws are no longer in place but you would think given all the toxin and carcinogens in our current food sources that god would tell SOMEBODY that we need to be more organic and stop with all the chemicals.

Also, you'd think that god would look at America and say "stop it" - here - here's the new law about what is right and proper to consume and how it must be prepared for proper consumption.

But no, apparently most poeple are too busy trying to determine if what they think they should do is their idea or god's because he doesn't seem to be coming through too clearly.