To be perfectly honest I am just as appalled with the rest of his none factual assumptions. Just do not call me a communist like you did someone else in this thread because it is far from the truth.

The fact that I am glad someone is doing something about health care (unlike all of the administrations before him)does in no way make me anti American.

you post "You can believe whatever makes you comfortable - it won't mean you're correct. "

and I TOTALLY Agree... during civil rights era, do you think the sheer number of Violent reactions to the passing of certain bills were probably fabricated because we didnt hear of nearly as many violent reactions from the status quo?

Genetically speaking we are all similar but different. One child will be physically stronger than the other. One will be smarter. Mentoring has nothing to do with "Genetic Predisposition." I tried working out with mentoring and never got defined or bigger. I did get a lot stronger for it. I could never achieve a wash board set of abs. Now comparing me to Mike Tyson, I do not have his genetic predisposition to be large like him. My arms are only 14 inches and that is from hard physical labor. BUT Mike Tyson has the intellectual prowess of an Idaho Spud. What is funny is that we do have ONE thing in common. Both of us raised pigeons and he supposedly is really good with them. The fact in life outside of the "Human Norm" is that early on if the child does not have the genes they don't live hence, like in fish a single spawning can yield over four million children in some species BUT may be four or five out of all of them will ever live long enough to reach sexual maturity let alone have the chance to breed.

Now a fish cannot in itself affect its environment more than eating other fish or rock scraping and pooping. A single human cannot do much more than that either except for can create fire and can do considerable damage but so do other natural phenomenon. When you begin to add more humans that changes. Now we can begin to actually change the environment and now we have SO many humans that we now do affect serious changes to the environment but then again the earth itself makes most of those changes happen. Now back to All men Are Created Equal.

I am a Mechanical genius. Period. I am extremely eccentric in my own ways. I am no social butterfly. My strengths are problem solving, building, and organizing work. I also excelled in science but when it comes to Algebra I am a total retard. It gets too confusing with too many rules. If I apply it I can do it but when you get into imaginary constructs I begin to loose it. I am not a very abstract thinker. I do however have a very good sense of dimension in 3D and that applies to making useful things. I however am not very Physical in that I have the diamond cut musculature and I can't run long distances. I can ride a bike all day. Love to roller skate too. I can row a boat all day but I sure in hell am not going to get into a boxing ring and get my butt handed to me and take a pounding for a sport. I am not into pain. In the real world (wilderness setting) if you don't have a threshold for pain you will die out there. Mike Tyson could very well be able to manhandle a Leopard. There is no way I could. I just am not strong enough. NOW the meat and potatoes.

Man is a tool using creature and that is not exactly unique in Nature. Birds, and mammals, have clearly been witnessed utilizing things found in nature to their advantage but to shape an object for a purpose is tool using and that has again been witnessed in birds and mammals. Mike Tyson cannot make a gun. I could with the right machining tools but then hell, a pipe shotgun is not hard to make either and all I need is a drill. I also could fabricate a spear and something better than having a pointy wood tip.

Look back on early human history at the stone age. The hunters would have been the most valuable member of the group but to hunt with spears takes a lot of stamina and strength. Everyone would hope for big strong hunters for children. Now the smaller weaker children would grow up with less status in the tribe and also would either prove to be useful somehow or they were driven off as useless. Now comes fire. It takes practice and skill to do it and not everyone to this day without matches or a lighter can make a fire. Now comes the smaller weaker child who could not hunt as well as the others comes along and watching someone do it manages to start a fire for everyone? That child suddenly became a very important asset to the tribe! Even more so than the hunters. Often if they shown any kind of real intellectual ability they often became the advisers to the chief and even took care of the spiritual needs of the tribe. I think that the concept of magic as we know it came from the select few in our early history who had to used three to five items put together in the right way and with the proper ceremony a fire was started for the night. That was viewed as power then. It is now. You don't just rub two sticks together to make fire. It works differently as it is portrayed. Honestly, can you make a fire without matches or a lighter?

See what I mean by all men are not created equal? Mike Tyson would be a hunter and I would be a Firestarter if this was the stone age. Hunters are a dime a dozen.

For some reason I see myself having been a Shaman in a past life.

For the person who is all pissed off at me admitting I shot at someone. When I yelled at the ******* to stop shooting he shot at me a second time. I did as I was taught, I unloaded my magazine at him and tossed the second one in! He got his *** handed to the authorities at gunpoint for two reasons! A. He was on private property that was clearly marked every fifty feet and B. He took a second shot after I called out. Kiss MY A@@ if you don't like it. I could have forgiven the first shot but he broke a serious rule of hunting ANY responsible hunter knows! You only shoot when you have a clear shot and can SEE what you are shooting at and ALSO know there are no cars, parking lots, buildings, barns, etc. on the other side of the animal I am shooting at. I would have detained the man at gunpoint for having blind shot on private property anyways. Had I had seen him I would have just told him to leave but he shot at me first and then a second time. Get more info before shooting your mouth off!


Now to reply to the last statement in this. What makes a bad auto mechanic bad? Well this is the same damn thing that Obama is doing to us with the help of the DNC. Instead of replacing the parts of the car that prevent it from working they want to buy a whole damn new car. On top of that they want everyone to pay for the same homogeneous and terrible service the government is known to provide! And to make matters even worst the net return over time does not compensate for the annual deficit this will impose on us. Do you think this is 1.7 trillion dollars here and now? OH NO LADDYBUCK! This is 1.7 trillion EACH YEAR!

Do yourself a serious favor, rent the movie Brazil with Terry Guilian. That is what America is heading for if we don't stop this malarky NOW! Honestly, we just need to fix the car we got! Really! Tort reform, and government regulation of insurance and lending practices is what we need NOW! Now a whole new Government Healthcare Program? Yikes! Do some math, please! Where is all the money supposed to come from? I can barely pay my own bills and now I have to come up with an additional $2000 a year for health insurance? Ay' Caramba!

I have seen the movie, but thank you for the recommendation.
As far as health care, don’t you tell me that it was fine the way it was; as the owner of two small businesses I know firsthand the problems that I encountered? One of my companies had 38 employees; all but two of these people had families (wife, kids…ect). In a period of thirteen months the premiums, that I paid, skyrocketed 38%. It made it impossible for me to provide this coverage and I subsequently was forced to discontinue offering it. This did not make me feel any better about listening to politicians year after year talking about reform yet, once they got elected they all failed to do ANYTHING about it.

You see, they are all out of touch, even the ones you support. Who by the way, still tell you that we have the number one system in the world. What a joke! We are far behind the rest of the free world when it comes to heath care, but they have you and many others thinking that it is un American to pull your head out of the sand long enough to see that.

Well this is what you get with deregulation now isn't it? Who deregulated health care??? Who deregulated banking and lending?

Face it, this is not addressing the over the top profiteering of Pharmaceutical manufacturers. This is doing nothing to deal with the super high cost of seeing doctors. If anything this is a socialist attempt to make us all suckle at the government teat! I can't afford health care insurance. So you wanna pay for mine? Thank you. You are so generous with yours and everyone elses' money.

How about all the frivolous lawsuits against doctor's doing there jobs? Mal practice is one thing and there are doctors who should not be practicing but you get that an ANY industry. it is just that too many GOOD doctors are getting sued for BS reasons! Why is it you say nothing about Tort reform?

Someone is going to profit from all of this and look at Auto Insurance when it became mandatory! You think health care is expensive now! Just you wait and see. The real Sheet is about to hit the fan. Again Mark My Words! Did Julius Caesar listen to the seer's warning 'beware the idea of march?' No. Is American Government really heeding the warnings of the American people? NO. What are we going to get? Well, I am not going to promote gloom and doom but I see VERY dark storm clouds on the horizon. the only people who want this on our side is those "Poor Unfortunates" who only know how to suckle at the government teat to pay for their health care because they cannot earn anything in their lives. I am poor but even I don't want Obama care! I don't want to live on the backs of others! At least I got some pride in myself!

PS Why do so many Canadians and Mexicans come here for health care? Behind who? France? Like they can afford what they took on. The French are having their share of regrets! Could you PLEASE qualify your statement. Don't you dare bring up Switzerland! They are a closed border nation. They do not count! They don't put up with illegal immigration for one! only mention nations with open immigration policies like ours! Who are you going to compare us to now? Japan? Don't go there either! Their health care is even more expensive than ours!

now conservitives are geting it to. its geting so bad that im wondering how long it will be before someone gets killed. for more information see http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/25/congress.threats/index.html?hpt=T2

The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services

Final Congressional vote by chamber and party, November 4, 1999
The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act since the 1980s, if not earlier. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service prepared a report which explored the case for preserving Glass-Steagall and the case against preserving the act.[2]

Respective versions of the legislation were introduced in the U.S. Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the U.S. House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa). The third lawmaker associated with the bill was Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia), Chairman of the House Commerce Committee from 1995 to 2001.
The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1st by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (|Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent/Socialist 0–1),[3] [4] [5] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6th by a much-narrower 54–44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and one Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed.

so you tell me who deregulated it...

Drum roll......

Under which president? And he was a...?

Who's signature did it take to ratify it??????????

Don't revile republicans for that one! Who had final say? It sure wasn't Bush Jr. Now was it?????

Now look back again at the acts you pointed to. All of them were reactions to dealing with a situation industries like Insurance, banking/lending, pharmaceuticals, chemical, and others have been manipulating with money and lobbying for years. Why not start fixing how we elect leaders and how they act. they act on money, not global national interests.


Funny how you don't have any countries to compare us too either. Fir as messed up as it is our health care IS the best in the world no matter how you look at it. No sane person goes to Mexico for surgery.

You know I am surprised as hell you never once mentioned the FDA who hinders medical progress more than helps to protect our interests. What about fixing them? They ARE just as much a part of the problem as the flaccid attempt of Obama to fix a flawed system with another flawed and much more expensive system that also imposes demands for us to pay for a service we don't want.

And so???

[qoute]
we got to demand these schools teach better . shooting at empty building whats that , who does that impress .
If you want to get someone to stop stealing from you . you need to get face to face with them and work out you problem s . make them understand your not going away till they stop ripping us off .
I my self well be sitting on my hands till we get control of the 2 partys and put the government workers who fail to enforce all the laws in jail for stealing from us { there pay ] they didn't earn it .
I well not think poorly of anyone who confronts those a holes in any way and i won't step up to stop anyone who in flustration does a crimnal act against them . whats fair is fair . if you don't feel safe get out of office and let someone whose is not corrupt have the job ..

This legislation (whose voting margins, if repeated, would easily have overcome any Presidential veto) was signed into law by Democratic President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999. so you are wrong, it was the republicans and we all know what the outcome of this bill was, don't we?

not much different from the Presidential order signed by baby Bush that pretty much gave the energy companies the right to charge what ever they wanted to. that order put hundreds of millions of dollars into the hands of Enron, remember them? oh wait, when that whole thing imploded Bush pretended to not even know Kenneth Lay (a long time family friend and supporter)

and I hate to tell you, because I would hate to cloud this debate with facts, but people do go to Mexico for not only surgery, but also for treatment of cancer. plastic surgery numbers continue to rise as well. look it up and you will see for yourself...

The number of people going to Mexico vs the number coming here are fewer. Most people go to Mexico for cheap plastic surgery, drugs, etc. They also are treating desperate cancer patients who cannot afford the chemo here.

Again Bill Clinton ratified deregulation happily, and so what the congress was majority Rep. then. Slick Willy could have said no. Then again the focus then was not health care but protecting economic growth and selling out to China! So now you wave partial fact around like it is full fact. The full fact was a lot of what gets through congress is by political leveraging and for the Reps to get what they wanted they had to trade with the Dems. You know the real villain is BOTH sides and you just want to conveniently blame the republicans for everything.




Again what is so bad with fixing our existing system? It does not need replacement. Just repair!

OH And speaking of ENRON, how many of Obama's cabinet were part of that one??? Two I can think of. The roots of corruption run MUCH deeper than you are seeing I think but that is my opinion.

for the record, I did not vote for Obama. I do not think this is the best or final solution for a broken system, I do however hope this is a starting point.

But again what is the practicality of buying a new car when you can't hope to afford it? That is what we are facing with Obama care. I wish it was thought out more than trying to stick America with a trillion dollar plus expense when we are already DEEPLY in the red.

exactly....

but why is it ok for you to blame others any time something goes wrong? here is the difference you think your side is right because everyone else is simply wrong, I think they both are wrong and do not have the best interest of either you or me in mind

nothing is wrong with fixing it, but why have we not done that to this point. at least we have something being done. and I truly hope though the efforts of both parties they can come up with a middle ground here.

And your US or them thinking helps any more? That is precisely why nothing ever gets done. None of our government have had the balls to swallow their pride! They are too interested in maintaining status quo. THAT IS WHAT HAS TO CHANGE! Dumping socialist policy on us does nothing but make EVERYTHING worst. Adding this financial burden will do what for or to the economy now? I think if this is not appealed successfully we ARE facing the end of our economy! NO business can operate in the red like our government! this whole Debt Economy has to go away! IT DOESN"T WORK!

well lets be honest here... republicans had eight years to something, anything, but they did nothing. at least this administration has the balls to try and do something. when he ran, did he not say to the old guard we are going to do this. did he not say bring me a better idea? did he not put it to the people? yes.

they responded by electing him. case closed...

Obama had other ideas put before we him but only the ones his cronies thought he wanted to see. not the ones that made sense. Seriously, this health care measure is going to do more damage than you are seeing. What do you think the end result will be when NO ONE on my end of the pay scale can afford anything because we are getting fined every day for not having health care? Now what? I got to go to prison and loose everything I own and finally wind up truly destitute? That is the exact thing that breeds criminals!

Can you not see this "Program" for what it is? I sure can! it is forced social engineering! It is government living above the law. If it is so good why is it that out government officials still get to keep their super duper health care and have to suffer mediocrity?

No this is not the first time government has tried to address the issue and it is not done right again which is the hallmark of incompetence within our system. It would be nice to say they got it right this time but they missed the mark by ten feet! Up about four feet and left about ten feet. The target was right in front of them and they had a fire hose to hit it with! Looks like they couldn't hold down the hose! Now a media smoke screen? This whole issue and Obama Care are both clusterfuques!