two interesting tidbits regarding science and religion,,,

from the daily mail in the uk

Humans are programmed to believe in God because it gives them a better chance of survival, researchers claim.
A study into the way children's brains develop suggests that during the process of evolution those with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs - possibly by working in groups to ensure the future of their community.
The findings of Bruce Hood, professor of developmental psychology at Bristol University, suggest that magical and supernatural beliefs are hardwired into our brains from birth, and that religions are therefore tapping into a powerful psychological force.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html#ixzz0ek3dlqCO

ITS HARD WIRED< ITS JUST WHO WE ARE.... and

Infamous scientists were members of religion,,,Einstein, Descartes, Galile,Copernicus, and Pasteur to name but a few

SO WE ARE IN GOOD (AND ARGUABLY INTELLIGENT AND EDUCATED)COMPANY,,

I'm not buying it...some things religion teaches children is awful...
Teaching children such qualities as unconditional love, kindness, compassion, tolerance, allowing...etc. Yes, very good, I just don't believe that religion is the only way to teach such things..not the best option in my opinion anyway.

Yeah, I dont really believe ANYTHING is hardwired, except certain gender qualities(usually). Im just poking at those who insist religion or the religious are mindless followers and not just as educated and independent as anyone else.

However...it DOES open some intriguing questions and/or debates:

1) If hardwired, are Agnostics and Atheists genetically deformed?

2) If hardwired, do Orientals (just as an example, no racist remark meant) carry a "Tao", "Shinto", or "Buddhist" genome that others don't?

3) If hardwired, would we not all be "addicted" to some religious dogma?

4) If hardwired, is there a companion genome for cruelty? Religious strife over the centuries (think Torquemada and the Inquisition, the practice of excommunication, the constant yammering of pain and suffering for those not joined to a particular religious group) would certainly indicate so!

5) If hardwired, would we even be HAVING this forum chat?

Hard-wired? Only if a person were taught "that" from the beginning.

Imagine a person who is raised in the backwoods without any sort
of religious influence, how would that person "know" of it?

As my American Indian ancestors could tell you, they would become "animists", imbuing all of nature with spirits to be "revered" and paid homage to.

not sure Jesus would agree with that

very interesting ,, huh? Like I said I dont believe in anything being hardwired but science can make cause out of correlation very well.

This is not science backing religion, its science explaining the human propensity for religious belief.

L2think

AH, but the pov that we have a propensity for something usually implies it is 'natural', like our sexuality,,,or our masculinity or femininity,,,,it , in an indirect way, provides a rationality and potentially a pass to be just the way we are 'hardwired' to be.

Some are not smart enough to realize that..they rely on their truthiness to pretend they are not brain damaged from religious indoctrinations...pretty sad really.

"Myth: Intelligent people tend to be more religious.

Fact: Intelligent people tend to be more secular.

Summary

The broad consensus of research shows that people with higher IQs tend to be less religious, not more so.


Argument

Is it more logical to be a Christian? Is religion the natural choice of a smart person familiar with more of the evidence? Not according to a broad consensus of studies on IQ and religiosity. These studies have consistently found that the lower the IQ score, the more likely a person is to be religious.

To place these studies in perspective, it is helpful to know the general religious attitudes of Americans today. According to a February 1995 Gallup poll, 96 percent of all Americans believe in God, and 88 percent affirm the importance of religion. However, the degree of religiosity within this group varies considerably. Only 35 percent can be classified as "religious," using a definition that requires them to consider religion important and attend religious services at least once a week. And a March 1994 Gallup poll found that only 20 percent of all Americans belong to that politically active group known as "Christian conservatives."

The following is a review of several studies of IQ and religiosity, paraphrased and summarized from Burnham Beckwith's article, "The Effect of Intelligence on Religious Faith," Free Inquiry, Spring 1986: (1)"

I have references to support this obvious fact:

1. Thomas Howells, 1927
Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."

2. Hilding Carlsojn, 1933
Study of 215 students showed that "there is a tendency for the more intelligent undergraduate to be sympathetic toward… atheism."

3. Abraham Franzblau, 1934
Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.

4. Thomas Symington, 1935
Tested 400 young people in colleges and church groups. He reported, "There is a constant positive relation in all the groups between liberal religious thinking and mental ability… There is also a constant positive relation between liberal scores and intelligence…"

5. Vernon Jones, 1938
Tested 381 students, concluding "a slight tendency for intelligence and liberal attitudes to go together."

6. A. R. Gilliland, 1940
At variance with all other studies, found "little or no relationship between intelligence and attitude toward god."

7. Donald Gragg, 1942
Reported an inverse correlation between 100 ACE freshman test scores and Thurstone "reality of god" scores.

8. Brown and Love, 1951
At the University of Denver, tested 613 male and female students. The mean test scores of non-believers was 119 points, and for believers it was 100. The non-believers ranked in the 80th percentile, and believers in the 50th. Their findings "strongly corroborate those of Howells."

9. Michael Argyle, 1958
Concluded that "although intelligent children grasp religious concepts earlier, they are also the first to doubt the truth of religion, and intelligent students are much less likely to accept orthodox beliefs."

10. Jeffrey Hadden, 1963
Found no correlation between intelligence and grades. This was an anomalous finding, since GPA corresponds closely with intelligence. Other factors may have influenced the results at the University of Wisconsin.

11. Young, Dustin and Holtzman, 1966
Average religiosity decreased as GPA rose.

12. James Trent, 1967
Polled 1400 college seniors. Found little difference, but high-ability students in his sample group were over-represented.

13. C. Plant and E. Minium, 1967
The more intelligent students were less religious, both before entering college and after 2 years of college.

14. Robert Wuthnow, 1978
Of 532 students, 37 percent of Christians, 58 percent of apostates, and 53 percent of non-religious scored above average on SATs.

15. Hastings and Hoge, 1967, 1974
Polled 200 college students and found no significant correlations.

16. Norman Poythress, 1975
Mean SATs for strongly antireligious (1148), moderately anti-religious (1119), slightly antireligious (1108), and religious (1022).

17. Wiebe and Fleck, 1980
Studied 158 male and female Canadian university students. They reported "nonreligious S's tended to be strongly intelligent" and "more intelligent than religious S's."

STUDENT BODY COMPARISONS

1. Rose Goldsen, 1952
Percentage of students who believe in a divine god: Harvard 30; UCLA 32; Dartmouth 35; Yale 36; Cornell 42; Wayne 43; Weslyan 43; Michigan 45; Fisk 60; Texas 62; North Carolina 68.

2. National Review Study, 1970
Percentage of students who believe in a Spirit or Divine God: Reed 15; Brandeis 25; Sarah Lawrence 28; Williams 36; Stanford 41; Boston U. 41; Yale 42; Howard 47; Indiana 57; Davidson 59; S. Carolina 65; Marquette 77.

3. Caplovitz and Sherrow, 1977
Apostasy rates rose continuously from 5 percent in "low" ranked schools to 17 percent in "high" ranked schools.

4. Niemi, Ross, and Alexander, 1978
In elite schools, organized religion was judged important by only 26 percent of their students, compared with 44 percent of all students.

STUDIES OF VERY-HIGH IQ GROUPS

1. Terman, 1959
Studied group with IQ's over 140. Of men, 10 percent held strong religious belief, of women 18 percent. Sixty-two percent of men and 57 percent of women claimed "little religious inclination" while 28 percent of the men and 23 percent of the women claimed it was "not at all important."

2. Warren and Heist, 1960
Found no differences among National Merit Scholars. Results may have been effected by the fact that NM scholars are not selected on the basis of intelligence or grades alone, but also on "leadership" and such like.

3. Southern and Plant, 1968
Studied 42 male and 30 female members of Mensa. Mensa members were much less religious in belief than the typical American college alumnus or adult.

STUDIES Of SCIENTISTS

1. William S. Ament, 1927
C. C. Little, president of the University of Michigan, checked persons listed in Who's Who in America: "Unitarians, Episcopalians, Congregationalists, Universalists, and Presbyterians [who are less religious] are… far more numerous in Who's Who than would be expected on the basis of the population which they form. Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics are distinctly less numerous."

Ament confirmed Little's conclusion. He noted that Unitarians, the least religious, were more than 40 times as numerous in Who's Who as in the U.S. population.

2. Lehman and Witty, 1931
Identified 1189 scientists found in both Who's Who (1927) and American Men of Science (1927). Only 25 percent of those listed in the latter and 50 percent of those in the former reported their religious denomination, despite the specific request to do so, under the heading of "religious denomination (if any)." Well over 90 percent of the general population claims religious affiliation. The figure of 25 percent suggests far less religiosity among scientists.

Unitarians were 81.4 times as numerous among eminent scientists as non-Unitarians.

3. Kelley and Fisk, 1951
Found a negative (-.39) correlation between the strength of religious values and research competence. [How these were measured is unknown.]

4. Ann Roe, 1953
Interviewed 64 "eminent scientists, nearly all members of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences or the American Philosophical Society. She reported that, while nearly all of them had religious parents and had attended Sunday school, 'now only three of these men are seriously active in church. A few others attend upon occasion, or even give some financial support to a church which they do not attend… All the others have long since dismissed religion as any guide to them, and the church plays no part in their lives… A few are militantly atheistic, but most are just not interested.'"

5. Francis Bello, 1954
Interviewed or questionnaired 107 nonindustrial scientists under the age of 40 judged by senior colleagues to be outstanding. Of the 87 responses, 45 percent claimed to be "agnostic or atheistic" and an additional 22 percent claimed no religious affiliation. For 20 most eminent, "the proportion who are now a-religious is considerably higher than in the entire survey group."

6. Jack Chambers, 1964
Questionnaired 740 US psychologists and chemists. He reported, "The highly creative men… significantly more often show either no preference for a particular religion or little or no interest in religion." Found that the most eminent psychologists showed 40 percent no preference, 16 percent for the most eminent chemists.

7. Vaughan, Smith, and Sjoberg, 1965
Polled 850 US physicists, zoologists, chemical engineers, and geologists listed in American Men of Science (1955) on church membership, and attendance patterns, and belief in afterlife. Of the 642 replies, 38.5 percent did not believe in an afterlife, whereas 31.8 percent did. Belief in immortality was less common among major university staff than among those employed by business, government, or minor universities. The Gallup poll taken about this time showed that two-thirds of the U.S. population believed in an afterlife, so scientists were far less religious than the typical adult.

Conclusion

The consensus here is clear: more intelligent people tend not to believe in religion. And this observation is given added force when you consider that the above studies span a broad range of time, subjects and methodologies, and yet arrive at the same conclusion."

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-thinkingchristians.htm

these anonymous people could be anyone from any chosen group, I cited WELL KNOWN BRILLIANT minds who did participate in religion, which would disprove some immediate correlation between intelligence and faith.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals Himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."

—Albert Einstein

It all reads to me to be a social issue. Someone believes the way they do because there are others who believe it too, and they want to fit in. Even an intelligent person will go to church if they want company.

still a belief in God and support of religion,,,,

"“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" Albert Einstein

that can be part of it,, but not necessarily so. Someone wanting company could go to a much more nuetral area, like a club or a park.

As far as believing because others do,, there is a correlation because I wouldnt know the specifics of my beliefs without someone pointing those options out to me in the first place. But once the options are given to me it is still my CHOICE to believe or not, based upon my personal compass of common sense and logic. For instance, I have great reverence for much of what is TAUGHT in the nation of islam, but I could never be a member because I steadfastly refuse to believe the whole Yakub created white men thing. Now it was a believer who presented this information to me, just like a believer introduced me to the bible,,but it was still my choice to believe it regardless of whether others did or not.

I think the point has always been between science and psuedoscience. Piaget discussed magical thinking in his cognitive development work and never attributed it to a "hardwired" belief in gods.

The christian extremists are claiming Einstein among their flock of seagulls.

They're FUNNY!

"There is a religious motive for doing science, but it does not entail a belief in a personal God. "

Albert Einstein

Now they are twisting Einstein quotes, (just like they did in the "crazy stuff from the bible" thread). to further their agendas of conquering the world and "saving" everyone...I wonder how many people they will kill or discriminate against to get that done?

It's just not smart...

Seems to me - the only consensus here is you'll believe anything you read as long as it supports your unsubstanciated premises.

Certainly not a reflection of any intelligence. You must be VERY religious. You need to give up your religious fanticies dude - and try thinking for yourself.

A quote is what it is.

Not as well read as you thought - eh?