Spider

sin is obviously stil being comitted and "God's" children are dying
everyday. The way you make it sound is that jesus's death was suppossed
to have paved the way for a completely sinless life. How can you
appreciate the good with out working through and with the bad or sins of
yourself or an individual. Many would not understand happiness and
goodness without the bad. This is an oppinion, I believe if Jesus died
to save us then his death accomplished only the spread of religion and
more death in Gods name. I am not trying to insult I am merely trying
to understand this absolution that you've made.

To the others, I really appreciate the insight regardless of the
specific faith you choose to practice. You all have showed me that it
is not the importance of the name you call it by but the belief that
guides you through your own spirtual journey.

Spider wrote:
“Jesus died to free us from the bondage of sin. The wages of sin is
death...for the sins we commit in life, someone must die. Jesus paid the
price, so that we wouldn't have to.”

I glad this makes sense to you Spider and that you are happy with this
explanation. However, for me, this is totally meaningless. I’m not
aware that we were in the bondage of sin in the first place. And the
statement “The wages of sin is death” is totally meaningless to me.
Moreover, if Jesus paid for our sins by death it appears that the check
bounced three days later when he rose from the dead again. I’m not
attempting to make fun, but seriously, if the wages of sin are death and
Jesus rose from the dead only three days later than the payment was
hardly made in full.

With all due respect Spider, and with no ill-intent toward your beliefs,
I just think there’s more to God than being obsessed with sin and
salvation. To me there’s so much more to life than this.

You see, for me personally, sin has never played a major role in my
life. I’ve basically had child-like innocence my entirely life. Though
this may be hard for some people to believe I live it everyday so it’s
an established fact for me. The idea of a god that just focuses on sin
and salvation is just totally alien to my whole existence. I would be
an innocent bystander in such a world. And I'm sure there are many
other innocent people like me as well.

I just can’t believe that God is obsessed with sin and salvation. There
is far more to life than such a petty plot. I could never buy into a
religion that has such a narrow theme. It’s all about a creator that
created such bad apples that the whole thing just turned into a
desperate act to save a few of the least-rotten ones. Just seems to me
like a god that had a terribly bad hair day during creation.

I do thank you for explaining your view, but as I say, it holds no
meaning for me.

I think Jesus dead is a bigger concept.

Abracadabra,

What amazes me about you is how you use such derogetory language about
Christian's beliefs and don't get banned. Can't you talk about your
beliefs without trying to belittle mine? If you say to someone "With
all due respect" and then follow it up with an insult...it's still an
insult.

oh gosh here we go

Midsummers

"I believe if Jesus died to save us then his death accomplished only the
spread of religion and more death in Gods name."

Christ died for a FAR MORE bigger cause than to spread the religion or
more death in God's name.

Ever heard of the great commission? It's all in the Bible if you want to
fully know his purpose.

Do you believe in redemption or salvation?

Boredchick

my beliefs, as I've stated before are very hard to explain. I do not
feel that I will find God in a book written by man. So no, I have not
read the bible since I was very young. I also know that I am not one
to preach RELIGION with out an understanding of what I am speaking. I
did not mean to affond any one by my oppinion, I was simply trying to
understand why spider believes so solidly in God and Christ as described
by man and a book for generations in which many things have been
changed. Thank you for sharing. I am continuing to learn many things
about people and there beliefs.

Ah yes the 'Great Commission'.

Another statement that was added during the Nicean Council. Historical
records show that the great commission (that portion that is Mark 16) is
not found in two of the oldest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament,
the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus but were added to the
works by editorial process.

I am inclined to doubt the validity of any speach that has been
attributed to Jesus AFTER the crucifixion. Such things smack of
'revivalists', 'charlatans' and falsness being tied to his warnings of
miracles, 'wonders' and 'here there be christ, there is christ' before
his acension.

I also have discovered that there were over 100 manuscripts written of
the time of Jesus but that only those that are in the bible now were
accepted by the Nicean Council and the Emperor Constantine attempted to
have ALL THE ONES NOT ACCEPTED DESTROYED after that council had decided.

oh okay midsummers You didn't offend me at all. I think
you're quite sweet. I was trying to clarify where spider is coming from.

bye AB

A_Midsummers_Dream,

Is good the opposite of evil? No, it's not. Evil is the absence of
good. Just like cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of
light. The human mind cannot understand something without other things
to compare them against, but Good, Light and Heat all exist without any
opposite. It's not a (- <= 0 = > +) scale, it's a (0 => +) scale.

Sin exists in this universe. In Genesis 3, the universe was cursed
because mankind sinned and no longer deserved a perfect universe to live
in. When Adam and Eve sinned, they died immediately. Not physically,
but spiritually. It is only through belief in Jesus that we can receive
eternal life. We will still suffer and die physically, that's just part
of what living in this universe means. But only our body will die, our
soul will live on to see God's Glory.

now midsummers you asked to learn so when someone explains their views
and beliefs just keep in mind that. So post in here aren't up for debate
nor is this an auction for a religion affiliation

Some people love to debate in these forums. You'll see...

Bye?




Ah but I come and go upon my own merits and by my own bearing.

umm I was saying bye because I as leaving. What you laughing about?

"What you talkin bout wallace?"

Hey AB,
You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable on here about religion in
general.(really)

How do you think siamese twins pertain to the bible. Is there scripture
pertaining to that in there anywhere??

I would not know.

I read it for enlightenment.

I reckon siamese twins could chat back and forth and enlighten each
other with no need of a good book.

Spider,

I'm sorry you felt insulted by something I said. There was no intent on
my part to insult you.

I’m also sorry that I initially accepted your offer to explain why a god
would send a sacrificial lamb to the people. Whatever explanation
exists would only make sense within the dogma of that religion anyway,
and since I don’t believe in any of the dogma then any such explanation
is bound to be meaningless to me anyway.

I personally find the idea of a god that is obsessed with sin and
salvation to be quite repugnant. Perhaps this is the source of your
feelings of personal insult. You mistake my revulsion of a
sin-obsessed god to somehow be a revulsion placed onto you personally.

Please know this Spider. I have no clue who you are, and I have
absolutely nothing against you personally. There is no way that I would
even care to insult you. I simply have no motivation to insult anyone.
But I do find certain religious ideas to be repugnant. I prefer to view
god as a very loving carefree spirit, and when I see god being depicted
as a judgmental deity who is obsessed with sin and salvation it
seriously makes me feel ill. So please don’t mistake my revulsion for
that ideal as being a personal attack on you.

It’s a negative picture of god that I find distasteful, and nothing
more.

That was BIG of you Abra. Thank you

He sets an example

Abracadabra,

I appreciate the kind words, but you missed my point. I didn't feel
that you had insulted me, I felt that you insulted Christianity.

You say "I personally find the idea of a god that is obsessed with sin
and salvation to be quite repugnant.". I'm not sure why you can't offer
your beliefs without belittling the beliefs of Christians. I disagree
with your beliefs, but I don't belittle them. I offer my beliefs to
counter yours, without any commentary stating that your beliefs are
"repugnant".

The fact that an idea is repugnant for an individual does not mean that
this idea is repugnant per se.
James is a person who has a different view. Sometimes a bit bitter and
sarcastic, but very wise.

Regards.

TLW

Nicely stated TLW.