China is neither a 1st world or 3rd world Industrial country.

Wow you guys really need to get out of your country more and see what is really going outside of it. No wonder you guys are not liked that much by alot of countries. Always watching the news channels, researching on the internet and then claim to know how it is like over there without even stepping foot onto its land. I call that the Roman Empire syndrome. It surely has gotten hold of you good!

Those countries that pay poor prices for their workers truly are suffering with very little. You can find excuses all day long that they have decent wages and a good life, but it is simply not true. This is the reason why they want to come to America, because even 40 dollars is a fortune of money for a days work. They even get a chance to rest after working 10 hours over here. Ask them how much sleep they get over there!

Yes the rent and food is cheaper over there but in comparison they can only afford some rice and salty fish for that day. Many have to cram up in one place just to pay the rent. Their children are actually starving and need medical attention. Many of them are not living as well as you think they are.

And yes some parts of each country have the wealthy who exclude themselves from the rest of the country and its poverty. I am not talking about them, I am talking about the majority of the population that are trying to really make it through each day. Each day is a challenge and it is a big one.

Fair prices, fair business ethics, fair humane rights??? Yeah right. You guys really need to travel more and see for yourself.

I have been to alot of those countries that you guys are talking about and have seen it first hand through the profession I practiced. I have communicated with them and everyone one of them would rather live in this country then where they are now and for good reason. Are they thankful to have a job, of course, but that doesn't mean they are happy. They are not allowed to complain at their job or they will not only get beaten, but also fired at the same time. When interviewed they have to hide their faces if they are to tell the truth of how it is like over there for they don't want to lose their job or get searched down and beaten.

Corporations are fierce over there and they will do whatever it takes to ensure that their stay is profitable. They care less of the conditions of the people. As long as they get their merchandise completed and shipped over here for the cheapest prices. Have you looked at the percentage of win they make when selling it over here?

Yes China is advancing rather quickly compared to alot of countries, but that doesn't exclude alot of the regions that are suffering from poverty at the same time.

So in the end it is not relative. There is a complete difference of life style that you Americans take for granted. They don't have the opportunity to own internet, radio, television, clean appliances, etc. Yes they have those things there, but many can't buy or go to them because they simply don't have the money to do so. They are living day by day.

China is the exception in many parts now for they are an economic boom house for the last 10 years. Every huge corporation is tending business over there.

America played a huge risk when getting involved in these countries. As soon as their labor stops what will you Americans then do when you don't get your gap tshirts, furniture, plastic toys, nike shoes, tires for the car, candles, weights, etc. etc.

Will you work for very low prices each day? Do you think Corporations want to pay the prices you ask for each hour when they can get cheaper labor else where? Labor Unions? Don't bet on it. If a corporation doesn't comply they won't and go else where if have to. Have you thought about this?

Concerning Americans working those jobs for low wages over here in the states? I haven't seen many Americans doing them. Show me some Americans doing construction work, picking vegetables at a farm, seperating organs from cows. The majority doing these jobs are foreigners because they will do it for a low price that Americans find utterly ridiculous to consider. The minimum wage that Congress has set is the lowest an American will go. Anything below that you will only find illegal immigrants doing without complaining.

Wow with this mentality it won't be long before you see some dramatic changes in this country that will surprise you. You can blame the democrats or the republicans, but they won't care. Each and everyone one of them made their money and have bought their mansion including having a fat savings for their retirement.

The question is... will you have achieved this for yourself or will you continue to slave your hard hours to help Congress and its cabinet members achieve their pension and mansion?

Wake up! You are getting raped left and right without even knowing it. Keep supporting and voting the same way. Soon you will see how you get the run arounds all the time realizing that nothing has been achieved to your satisfaction.

It is time for a new party, a new beginning, and a new system that can truly work for the people. Not just some people, but everyone. A third party in America! Yeah, I have a hard time believing this will happen, yet who knows maybe after Americans had enough of the run arounds they might find those parties you never hear of quiet appealing.

Good luck if you think otherwise. I do hope that the mentality of America will change. Not only for the children, but for future generations after that.

Smiles why don't you step into a K-mart or Target store?Those people are getting paid minimum wage jobs and I don't see any illegal's working there.Ask people what they make working in a amusment park.Gas stations,burger kings,Mcdonalds,minimum wage jobs.Your fantasy world of illegal's working in factories for under minimum wage is just that.Don't you realize that everyone working there has to be documented and on the payroll?You really think they are going to get away with out paying the minimum wage and taxes?You think a company is going to stupid enough to try it and risk getting shut down for probably hundred of violations and fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars?I know what I know because I have worked no less than 44 blue collar jobs in my lifetime.I have worked with a great deal of illegal's and nobody is going to risk losing the company by violating federal and state work statutes.They get the job by using fake ID's and fake SSN's.By law they make minimum wage.


Construction,mechanical,upholstery,etc are skilled trades and demand good wages.You ever wonder why you see so many illegal's cruising around in $20,000 cars?They are good workers and good at what they do.You don't own a house and drive around in a Escalade by making minimum wage working at burger king.You have a fake ID and a skilled trade,you can easily make $15.00 a hour.I really don't think the company cares what nationality you are as long as you are going to make them money.

Put the protective tariffs back in place.
Until they do America's standard of living will continue to decline until the global economy balances out.

I see this is going no where and it doesn't make sense to continue. In the end just remember that my fairy tale world that you so heavenly describe should be reevaluated 15 years from now. You will then start to understand what is really going to happen if Americans continue to go this route and perhaps say, yes he is right about this. I don't wish any ill will on Americans, I am just making aware of what is happening to your country.

I hope for your sake and many others that good decisions will be made. If not then the unemployment rate will continue to rise and illegal immigration will continue to rise also with it, because corporations will want them for cheap labor. With ID and fake documents coyotes create.

Good luck on your opinions and strategy of what you think is right for this country.

Here's another thing.
Did you know that in 1917, business, dividends, and interest accounted for 54% of all income taxes collected by the Fed.
While individual Income tax accounted for only 26% of the total.

But, by 1970, business, dividends, and interest accounted for only 12-13%.
While individual Income taxes accounted 83.19% 0f the total.

Before 1917 most of the tax collected by the Fed was in Protective tariffs.

...smiless so what youre saying is that because these people wont grow a set and unite to fight their own government than its the american's fault..we had our own wars to affect change many years ago..but i guess it would have been easier and selfish if we just ran off to another country where those people stood up for themselves to achieve a better life..

..now about these wages where they can only afford so little because of american plastic toys or nikes or whatever as opposed to the nothing at all wages they would be getting if these items werent wanted by the "american's"..

its their governmenbt thats keeping them poor not americans ..maybe they should unite and stand up for themselves rather than running off to other countries and whining about the americans...so in reality its their lack of courage to fight for change that is at the root of the problem....the americans just make for an easy excuse ..i suppose its a matter of perspective....

Actually it is the international banks, WTO, and Fed Banks that lend money to those countries with high interest rates that prevents the country from ever getting out of debt.

Now since they knew that the countries cannot get out of debt they will then use other alternatives to get their money back like installing these corporations into the country and putting in slave labor work raping its resources to get the goods we want over here.

Yes I am surprised that these countries don't fight for their rights. That they don't have a revolution in say no! Perhaps it is too late and besides alot are tired and weak from the lifestyle they are having.

I am just not a big supporter of mega corporations and these international banks, WTO, Fed Banks. I think this is going to ruin the world one day. I really hope I am wrong, because it just doesn't look good for alot of these countries. Maybe America will pull it through. I mean they have went through alot of hard times before, but with such a split society with such huge difference of opinions across the country, I wonder if it will always be a stalemate or the same story year after year after year when it comes to important subjects.

What I am saying is yes Americans should really think about the future of their country and stop acting like everything is going to be okay. Many believe that they will recover and things will go good again. It surely isn't what alot of economists are saying you know. They are saying this is just the tip of the mountain. Harder times are coming.

Can the 12 trillion dollar deficit be paid off? Will it continue to rise?

How much more can you afford to have 500 bases across the world?

How long can you continue to fight the wars in the Middle East?

How long will the corporations determine on what is best for the country when it really is all about profits and not the welfare of the people?

These are good questions with alot of various answers. In the end I am just opening dialogue for you guys to think about.

This makes alot of sense. I mean alot of the big businesses have their headquarters outside of the United States making them excempt on paying taxes.

I can clearly see how the government wants more people in their country working to get more taxes into the system, yet how will they do that if no businesses will be attained in the country. I mean the corporations will have to build more businesses here in the states for the people to work to pay taxes. As it looks like so far they rather put their manufacturys in China, India, etc. etc.

Perhaps foreign investors will step up since the dollar has become a bit weak.

We shall see what happens.

When the standard of living becomes equal across the globe, Americans will cease to decline.
We have yet some distance to fall.
They call it Globalization and have brainwashed most Americans to go along with it.
With every new generation that comes along, their job becomes easier.
There are not even any Unions left to stand in their way.

..i have said for many years that the government never abolished slavery,they just found a way to enslave us all..seems to me we are all in the same boat..just in different parts of the world...

Well what it is worth, I hope that a stabile global economy will occur with everlasting peace. That would be nice to have, although I do feel anxiety for those people who really are not treated fairly with their wages and humanitarian rights. I also doubt things will get alot better since the world population is rising at alarming rates in alot of countries.

Anyway, good luck on your debates no matter which direction you swing.

How so? Enlighten me.

Just the other day she stated the borders are secure and now it's time to grant amnesty to the illegal.

Have you even checked out the info on the website or are you going by the info from Hussein.com?

I think you are the misled one. Pro-Illegals/Pro-Amnesty folks are, IMO Anti-American. Are you Pro-Illegal/Pro-Amnesty? I really don't expect direct or truthful answers beings in some eyes wannabe Kang Hussein can do no wrong.

This is a 2007 report. The latest I could find with these guys.
The nation’s immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record of 37.9 million in 2007. Immigrants account for one in eight U.S. residents, the highest level in 80 years. In 1970 it was one in 21; in 1980 it was one in 16; and in 1990 it was one in 13. Illegal aliens account for an estimated 11.3 million of the total, or almost one in three foreign born residents. Since 2000, 10.3 million immigrants have arrived — the highest seven-year period of immigration in U.S. history. More than half of post-2000 arrivals (5.6 million) are estimated to be illegal aliens.
If immigration continues at current levels, the nation’s population will increase from 301 million today to 468 million in 2060 — a 167 million (56 percent) increase. Immigrants plus their descendents will account for 105 million (63 percent) of the increase. Net immigration has been increasing for five decades; if immigration continues to increase, it will add more than the projected 105 million that will be added if immigration levels stay the same.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, 1,052,415 immigrants were given permanent residence in FY 2007. Of those, 689,820 were family-sponsored; 162,176 were employment based; 136,125 were refugees or asylees; and 64,294 were from other categories.

Napolitano Makes the Push for Amnesty
Friday, November 13, 2009, 10:39 AM EST - posted on NumbersUSA

Why haven't there been any Workplace raids??

Janet Napolitano
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano made the push yesterday for a mass amnesty while speaking to the American Center for Progress. Napolitano said that her department has worked hard to increase enforcement and strengthen the border, but the real solution is for reform.

Napolitano was invited to speak at the center that's led by John Podesta. Her remarks not only laid out her goals for a mass amnesty, but she also argued on behalf of business groups and unions who need reform to fill jobs.

Let me be clear: when I talk about "immigration reform," I’m referring to what I call the "three-legged stool" that includes a commitment to serious and effective enforcement, improved legal flows for families and workers, and a firm but fair way to deal with those who are already here. ... We know that one-sided reform, as we saw in 1986, cannot succeed. During that reform effort, the enforcement part of the equation was promised, but it didn’t materialize.

Napolitano said she has seen a major shift since the "comprehensive immigration reform" effort failed in 2007, and now is the time to readdress the issue.

[T]he security of the Southwest border has been transformed from where it was in 2007. The federal government has dedicated unprecedented resources to the Mexican border in terms of manpower, technology and infrastructure—and it’s made a real difference. ...

[T]he immigration debate in 2007 happened during a period of historically high levels of illegal entry into the United States. Two years later, because of better enforcement and the current economic circumstances, those numbers have fallen sharply. The flow has reduced significantly – by more than half from the busiest years, proving we are in a much different environment than we were before.

These are major differences that should change the immigration conversation.

Napolitano noted that her department has shifted workplace enforcement efforts from the workers to the employers, which she said is a "critical part of comprehensive immigration reform." She also said that a larger part of the American public has joined the pro-amnesty side, including local law enforcement and the National Association of Evangelicals. BS. No numbers or proof. The unemployed and recently displaced would tend to disagree.

Napolitano also said the following issues need to be fixed, and immigration reform is the only solution to do so:

Fines for business who hire illegal workers need to be increased< More BS. Investigations and raids have been virtually non-existant since Hussein took office.
More resources are needed at the border as well as more legal tools for combating drug smuggling
People in the country illegally need to be brought out of the shadows {b]and deported
You can read Napolitano's full remarks at the DHS website.

I have an idea.
Tell all Illegals to go register what name they can prove with a birth cirtificate. Then, tell them to go back to their country and get their original birth cirtificates and come back for amnesty.

Or, go to the same place Hussein got his from. falsepapers.com

what do you expect ? they put a mexican in charge of the border .

Isn't it funny how you can scold him for misinformation and yours is inaccurate...lol

Most illegals do not have fake ssns nor ids. Most illegals buy their cars in cash that they have saved rigorously by living with many others so rent is small and stashing their money. They cannot get bank accounts or loans here to buy all those things with financing. They do not get welfare, foodstamps nor any other governmental program. They get paid 10.00 per hour and no more, no matter how skilled they are and have no right to complain about it.

So far they have blamed him for it all.

I would love it if they could get over the bias and really look at it.

Actually, some do try to take advantage of the welfare system. This is why Arizona passed prop 200 (and other states passed similar measures). Too much was being welfare and assistance was being paid out and not being replenished.

Not all do this, but enough to be a problem. I wouldn't mind illegal labor so much if the income tax was abolished.

Just like here, they passed redundant legislation that was already covered by the feds who supply most of the money of welfare and all of the money for foodstamps. If you could get them to check and see how much the legislation saved ya'll you will find it was close to nothing. It was the same here and people were shocked that the welfare rolls did not change after institution of the legislation.

The legislators wasted our good tax dollars making laws to placate the loud mouth prejudice folks in this country with legislation that was already in effect. Doesn't that piss you off????