Topic: Tobacco Companies Smarter Than Obama Administration | |
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By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writers Matt Apuzzo, Associated Press Writers – 1 hr 11 mins ago
WASHINGTON – When President Barack Obama signed a law expanding children's health insurance this spring, he slapped tobacco companies with huge tax increases to pay for it. It didn't take long for the companies to find a multimillion-dollar loophole. As soon as the new law took effect, raising taxes on roll-your-own cigarettes from $1.10 to $24.78 a pound, companies adapted. They all but shut down their roll-your-own brands and reinvented them under a less-restricted, less-taxed category: pipe tobacco. It's still destined to be rolled and smoked, but it's taxed at barely a tenth the rate, $2.83 per pound. Pipe tobacco is normally too coarse and moist to roll into a cigarette, but nothing says it has to be. In fact, the Obama administration says the only distinction between pipe tobacco and roll-your-own tobacco is how it's labeled, effectively giving tobacco marketing executives an opportunity to shape their own tax rate. Nearly overnight, roll-your-own brands like Criss Cross and Farmers Gold came off the shelves, replaced by pipe tobacco with the same names. The cuts may be slightly different, but they're suitable for rolling. Knowing this, retailers steer customers to the new products, sometimes with a wink and a nod, sometimes with outright advertising. "They tried to make a product within the elements of the law that they could, in fact, market as pipe tobacco," said Scott Bendett, owner of Habana Premium Cigar Shoppe in Albany, N.Y., which advertises the new pipe tobacco for hand-rolled cigarettes. Tobacco companies say they're just trying to find a legal way to stay afloat after being saddled with an enormous tax increase. But both the Obama administration and some in Congress say they'll try to come up with a distinction between the tobacco types, closing a loophole that could cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars year. "If the companies won't do what is right, then we will," said Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., a reliably anti-tobacco voice in Congress. Because the small, independent companies in the roll-your-own market are often overshadowed by the huge, publicly held cigarette companies, the sudden shift toward pipe tobacco caught researchers by surprise. Daniel Morris, who tracks tobacco production data at the Oregon Department of Health, thought he had made a mistake when he saw April's figures. Pipe tobacco production had more than doubled in a single month. After years of producing about 270,000 pounds per month, companies put more than 566,000 pounds of pipe tobacco on the market in April. Morris called the federal Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, which collects the data. There was no mistake. Over the next several months, the numbers climbed higher. In August, the most recent data available, pipe tobacco reached 1.7 million pounds, enough to roll more than 42 million packs of cigarettes. The huge spike in production corresponded with a tremendous drop in the roll-your-own industry. Companies produced 660,000 pounds in August, down from an average of 1.5 million pounds before the tax. "It really shows how the industry is able to respond to changes in the tax environment," Morris said. Anti-tobacco groups say it's deception, and not just because of the taxes. While flavored cigarettes are now banned in an effort to reduce the appeal of smoking to children, no such ban applies to pipe tobacco, allowing companies to sell black cherry, vanilla and other varieties. "This is a direct challenge to the federal government," said Matthew Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids. Art Resnick, a spokesman for the Tax and Trade Bureau, said there's no way to know how many companies have reinvented their brands as pipe tobacco, or whether the new offerings are just cigarette tobacco with pipes on the labels. The tax implications could be huge. As much as $32 million a month could be lost in taxes if the sudden spike in pipe tobacco is just cigarette tobacco in disguise. Companies say they're just trying to survive within the law. People buy roll-your-own tobacco because it's cheap, so when Washington raised taxes 2,000 percent, pipe tobacco became the affordable option. For some, it was the only option. "It allowed companies to stay in business, enough to keep paying the light bills," said Cheryl Turner, vice president of M&R Holdings, a small company in Pink Hill, N.C., that manufactures Farmers Gold. After the tax increase, the company cut staff from about 40 employees to about a dozen. Kevin Altman, who represents a handful of small companies with the Council of Independent Tobacco Manufacturers of America, acknowledged that some companies were exploiting the loophole, packaging cigarette tobacco and marketing it as pipe tobacco. "What are you going to do? You're trying to save the company," Altman said. "And what they're doing ... , as far as I can tell, is within the limits of the law." Still, Altman said his companies want the government to make the definition clearer. The ambiguity hurts those companies that didn't make the marketing switch and must sell their tobacco at higher prices. "Many times our government passes things without first taking an extra few days to say, 'What are the unintended consequences?'" Altman said. "That's what happened here." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091117/ap_on_bi_ge/us_tobacco_tax_loophole Raising any taxes from $ 1.10 to $ 24.78 in one swoop is ridiculous anyway. Maybe businesses wouldn't have to find loopholes if the tax had been phased in. One sector of business should never have to foot the bill for children's health insurance. What's next. How about a sugar tax of $25.00 per pound to pay for the health care bill being debated in Congress. Sugar is probably just as harmful to the body as cigarettes. |
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some places around here raised the cost of the tobacco for roll your own...maybe to make more profit. I was able to buy a 1 lb bag of tobacco for $10 but now it's $50
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some places around here raised the cost of the tobacco for roll your own...maybe to make more profit. I was able to buy a 1 lb bag of tobacco for $10 but now it's $50 Why are you burning your money, if you do not need them just give them to me........ . Smoking is no good for your pocket, your health and your longevity......isn't that a heart breaking ?..... ..... . |
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How does the OP even fit the title of the thread????
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How does the OP even fit the title of the thread???? The Obama administration endorsed the proposed tax increase and Obama signed the bill into law. I mean, geez, that's a pretty big loophole to overlook. What kind of legal team does Obama have working for him? Maybe incompetent ones. |
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When taxes get raised for corporations, corporations will find ways to get around it. They pay it but will do something to the product to make up for it. For example make the boxes smaller, less cigerattes in a pack, cheaper quality by a few milligrams, etc. etc. The consumer usually is the one who suffers in the end and what makes it worse is we allow it to happen.
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Sugar is probably just as harmful to the body as cigarettes. Jesus. I am SO sick of seeing bullshite lines like this. Sugar, like just about everything, when eaten in moderation, isn't nearly as harmful as cigarettes. No damn wonder sugar producers across the country keep shutting down. What a load of misinformed garbage. |
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When taxes get raised for corporations, corporations will find ways to get around it. They pay it but will do something to the product to make up for it. For example make the boxes smaller, less cigerattes in a pack, cheaper quality by a few milligrams, etc. etc. The consumer usually is the one who suffers in the end and what makes it worse is we allow it to happen. it's not so much the corporations finding a way around it as much as the people demanding a product at a reasonable price without gouging from their own government |
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When taxes get raised for corporations, corporations will find ways to get around it. They pay it but will do something to the product to make up for it. For example make the boxes smaller, less cigerattes in a pack, cheaper quality by a few milligrams, etc. etc. The consumer usually is the one who suffers in the end and what makes it worse is we allow it to happen. Yeah, well...when ( here in Michigan ) the tobacco tax has gone up somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500% over the last few years, yet the alcohol tax hasn't budged in 40 years ( the governor says increasing the alcohol tax would be detrimental to " Joe Average " ) I can't really hold it against the tobacco companies when they try to make a buck. Especially considering the breweries and distillers aren't being affected by unbalanced taxes. |
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When taxes get raised for corporations, corporations will find ways to get around it. They pay it but will do something to the product to make up for it. For example make the boxes smaller, less cigerattes in a pack, cheaper quality by a few milligrams, etc. etc. The consumer usually is the one who suffers in the end and what makes it worse is we allow it to happen. it's not so much the corporations finding a way around it as much as the people demanding a product at a reasonable price without gouging from their own government Very true and in the end everyone is just looking out for their own. Oh well that is the nature of mankind I suppose. |
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hmmmmmmm...
I wonder if tobacco will grow in West Texas |
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When taxes get raised for corporations, corporations will find ways to get around it. They pay it but will do something to the product to make up for it. For example make the boxes smaller, less cigerattes in a pack, cheaper quality by a few milligrams, etc. etc. The consumer usually is the one who suffers in the end and what makes it worse is we allow it to happen. Yeah, well...when ( here in Michigan ) the tobacco tax has gone up somewhere in the neighborhood of 2500% over the last few years, yet the alcohol tax hasn't budged in 40 years ( the governor says increasing the alcohol tax would be detrimental to " Joe Average " ) I can't really hold it against the tobacco companies when they try to make a buck. Especially considering the breweries and distillers aren't being affected by unbalanced taxes. Wow that is a huge percentage indeed. Well like I said everyone is trying to make a profit and the competition is fierce. |
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hmmmmmmm... I wonder if tobacco will grow in West Texas If the growing conditions are good, I wouldn't doubt it. Texas is a huge state! Could be a country of its own if wanted. |
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hmmmmmmm... I wonder if tobacco will grow in West Texas If the growing conditions are good, I wouldn't doubt it. Texas is a huge state! Could be a country of its own if wanted. uhhhhhh it was |
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hmmmmmmm... I wonder if tobacco will grow in West Texas If the growing conditions are good, I wouldn't doubt it. Texas is a huge state! Could be a country of its own if wanted. uhhhhhh it was yes very true and it can be again if wanted |
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hmmmmmm REPUBLIC OF TEXAS
that has a ring to it actually it does have the right under the state and federal constitution of splitting itself into five new states if they decide to that would be 10 new Senators and fifty or sixty new Representatives and five new Governors. big voting block if needed thats considered the "nuclear option" |
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hmmmmmm REPUBLIC OF TEXAS that has a ring to it actually it does have the right under the state and federal constitution of splitting itself into five new states if they decide to that would be 10 new Senators and fifty or sixty new Representatives and five new Governors. big voting block if needed thats considered the "nuclear option" When there is a will then there is a way. If the people want it, I am sure they will do it. If it is a good idea, well that is something that will have alot of opinions. I am sure about that. |
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hmmmmmm REPUBLIC OF TEXAS that has a ring to it actually it does have the right under the state and federal constitution of splitting itself into five new states if they decide to that would be 10 new Senators and fifty or sixty new Representatives and five new Governors. big voting block if needed thats considered the "nuclear option" When there is a will then there is a way. If the people want it, I am sure they will do it. If it is a good idea, well that is something that will have alot of opinions. I am sure about that. yeah it would have to have 2/3 of the state legislature and then a referendum of the people. so it wouldnt be easy but it was a condition of protection for Texas to enter the US |
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hmmmmmm REPUBLIC OF TEXAS that has a ring to it actually it does have the right under the state and federal constitution of splitting itself into five new states if they decide to that would be 10 new Senators and fifty or sixty new Representatives and five new Governors. big voting block if needed thats considered the "nuclear option" When there is a will then there is a way. If the people want it, I am sure they will do it. If it is a good idea, well that is something that will have alot of opinions. I am sure about that. yeah it would have to have 2/3 of the state legislature and then a referendum of the people. so it wouldnt be easy but it was a condition of protection for Texas to enter the US Texas always reminds me of my country state of Bavaria. They too always wanted to be independent from Germany creating their own country. If it will ever happen, I doubt it, but the people often criticize how the rest of Germany is doing its business wanting to seperate into a individual country of its own. You would be surprised to know how many countries have this problem. Mankind will always find its groups for various reasons. Well anyway, Texans are surely a unique group of Americans. That is for sure. |
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hahahaha I worked with many Zeiss engineers and they told me Bavaria IS the Texas of Germany
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