Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: Last time I heard the US is at 12 trillion dollars
artman48 Joined Sun 07/12/09 Posts: 933	Tue 10/27/09 08:45 AM
How about we get back to printing our own money?? Backed with gold!! Kennedy did that in the early 60's It was the last attempt. Look what happend when one man tried to do the right thing. Well--better to borrow from an entity that is neither us government, or legal, for that matter. Study the Fed. reserve 1913--see what I mean.

Karpenter Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 219	Tue 10/27/09 08:46 AM
I wonder if an absolute price and wages freeze may not be the most expedient. If wages and prices are frozen there may be a short term economic drain due to lack of investment. However. All empires, the Roman, the British, the French, the Russian, the American etc. have been lessening in terms of longevity throughout the centuries. But all have imploded economically. All of these empires share a common trait. And that is the trait of social and econimic complacency. The, I am all right Jack scenario, by the economicly powerful. The end result has always been a series of military defeats by idealistic regimes. Until the United States society regains a more individualistic and humanistic approach to its citizens then I very much fear that the Pax Americana too will implode. The citizens may find some solace in nationalism but nationalism is a matter of free will and cannot be imposed upon the people. Only severe imposition of commonwealth values will force the population to reconsider their lifestyles.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Tue 10/27/09 10:32 AM
You see alot of great ideas, yet none will be created to make this economy reduce this outrageous trillions of dollar deficit. I fear this government and its people need to act quickly to try to fix this problem or we can see "goodbye" to alot of things we took for granted. I was just looking at each country and their deficit. Believe it or not some don't even have a deficit, they have a surplass, yet there none that I have found that has a bigger deficit then the US. China, Japan, Germany, Britain, etc. etc. have deficits but not as big as the US and not by a long margin. Does that not worry you folks? I mean the American folks are working and paying taxes and still the deficit rises. One Mingle2 brother suggested get rid of the Central Bank. Now how do you get rid of such powers? Another said go back and do what Kennedy did or how Andrew Jackson paid back all of the debt. How exactly can that be done? Those suggestions need to be well thought out and sent to the represenatives because for some reason Congress has some horrible spenders and terrible accountants. Things have to change to fix this economy. What about the bases around the world with 500,000 troops everywhere? How much does that cost? Is it absolutely neccessary to have a base in Siberia for example? If we took half of the troops out of foreign countries and strengthen our borders would that be a good idea to help with the illegal immigration problem? I mean we need real solutions that can truly turn this country around. Alot of countries are depending on it for their strongest trading partner is the US or at least alot of the business is with the US. So why aren't Americans creating better products anymore? Is this why America needs wars to sell their weapons to keep the economy going. Maybe we need to change this approach? Okay enough questions I figure, but for some reason Congress is not moving forward with alot of them since they only work so many hours a week there.

metalwing Joined Fri 11/14/08 Posts: 26218	Tue 10/27/09 11:59 AM
We will pay almost 300 billion dollars in interest this year. Think of the better uses of the money.

heavenlyboy34 Joined Fri 07/04/08 Posts: 17348	Tue 10/27/09 12:13 PM
One Mingle2 brother suggested get rid of the Central Bank. Now how do you get rid of such powers? Congressman Ron Paul's "End The Fed" bill, which is making its way through Congress now. Andrew Jackson destroyed the first Central bank by simply withdrawing its powers. I personally think that if individuals went on their own and developed local currency (like the Oklahoma "Plenty"), it would eventually undermine and destroy the FED's powers.

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Tue 10/27/09 12:22 PM Edited by Atlantis75 on Tue 10/27/09 12:24 PM
we've always been in debt (with the lone exception of Andrew Jackson's tenure, he paid off the national debt during his Presidency) the key thing is the debt as a percentage of our economy. In absolute numbers its a staggering amount. As a percentage of the economy it's not all that worse than it ever has been the Iraq and Afghan wars are drops in the bucket the biggest expenditure in our economy is Medicare and Social Security If you look at the chart, it clearly shows, that the best time was around 1944, during WWII. Is it because there was a war going on? Partially, it does not necessarily means there needs to be a war. It was, because the US was mass producing all kinds of stuff (army stuff and food and everything you can think of) and everyone who wanted a job, had a job. Why no money was made from Iraq or AFghanistan? Because private companies (many overseas) took over the production. NO jobs = No money = No taxes = No income = No money in treasury. It really doesn't take a genius to figure this out. If anyone says this otherwise, he got something else going on, most likely special interest, that serves either another government or a private company, that has no interest in USA, especially the people of USA. You know, when you hear a lot of BS, and trying to circle around the real problem, you know that it's not true. More BS = more and bigger lies.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 10/27/09 09:00 PM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more.

AndrewAV Joined Sun 09/28/08 Posts: 1186	Tue 10/27/09 10:06 PM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street.

artman48 Joined Sun 07/12/09 Posts: 933	Tue 10/27/09 10:11 PM
One Mingle2 brother suggested get rid of the Central Bank. Now how do you get rid of such powers? Congressman Ron Paul's "End The Fed" bill, which is making its way through Congress now. Andrew Jackson destroyed the first Central bank by simply withdrawing its powers. I personally think that if individuals went on their own and developed local currency (like the Oklahoma "Plenty"), it would eventually undermine and destroy the FED's powers. sounds good to me!!

crickstergo Joined Fri 11/02/07 Posts: 1965	Wed 10/28/09 07:20 AM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Twisted economics 101.....

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Wed 10/28/09 12:30 PM
What is the chances of decreasing this debt? Or will we see in 2020 -25 trillion dollar in debt? Besides how far in debt can a country go? Only until other countries begin to complain and threaten? How does this work?

crickstergo Joined Fri 11/02/07 Posts: 1965	Wed 10/28/09 09:30 PM
What is the chances of decreasing this debt? Or will we see in 2020 -25 trillion dollar in debt? Besides how far in debt can a country go? Only until other countries begin to complain and threaten? How does this work? Case and Point http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574469073847604010.html

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 10/28/09 09:32 PM
The best start would be to vote AGAINST the incumbent in your state. Like that would fix anything. We have a long road to fix this country. After 8 years of destruction, it is going to take at least that long to get it back on track.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 10/28/09 09:34 PM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street. It never has been. In a capitalistic society the rich have always had the upper hand. Our middle class has been the backbone of this country and the most abused.

heavenlyboy34 Joined Fri 07/04/08 Posts: 17348	Wed 10/28/09 09:44 PM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street. It never has been. In a capitalistic society the rich have always had the upper hand. Our middle class has been the backbone of this country and the most abused. You are confusing capitalism with fascism and corpratism. It is capitalism that made the middle class possible during the industrial revolution. If by "the rich" you mean "corporations with political ties", you would be correct. However, if you are going simply by comparing with the average, you're incorrect. The top 10% bracket of taxpayers already pays more than 90% of income taxes. You get the illusion of "unfairness" because government regulations, spending, and inflation hurt the middle class and poor more so than the "rich" (as the latter classes have less to start with). If the government were to seriously "get the rich", we would witness an "Atlas Shrugged" type scenario.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Wed 10/28/09 09:55 PM
What is the chances of decreasing this debt? Or will we see in 2020 -25 trillion dollar in debt? Besides how far in debt can a country go? Only until other countries begin to complain and threaten? How does this work? Case and Point http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574469073847604010.html Wow that was a good read. Yes Americans need to get hungry again and be more innovative and creative with the rising competition of the world. And that is what China is doing now. It is amazing they hold over a trillion dollars of US treasury bonds.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Wed 10/28/09 10:06 PM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street. It never has been. In a capitalistic society the rich have always had the upper hand. Our middle class has been the backbone of this country and the most abused. You are confusing capitalism with fascism and corpratism. It is capitalism that made the middle class possible during the industrial revolution. If by "the rich" you mean "corporations with political ties", you would be correct. However, if you are going simply by comparing with the average, you're incorrect. The top 10% bracket of taxpayers already pays more than 90% of income taxes. You get the illusion of "unfairness" because government regulations, spending, and inflation hurt the middle class and poor more so than the "rich" (as the latter classes have less to start with). If the government were to seriously "get the rich", we would witness an "Atlas Shrugged" type scenario. They don't need to "get the rich" they just need to be fair. Buffet said in his interview that he has had the advantage in the Bush years of great tax cuts and if he needs to pay more that would be how it should be. It came from the horses mouth.

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Thu 10/29/09 10:52 AM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street. It never has been. In a capitalistic society the rich have always had the upper hand. Our middle class has been the backbone of this country and the most abused. You are confusing capitalism with fascism and corpratism. It is capitalism that made the middle class possible during the industrial revolution. If by "the rich" you mean "corporations with political ties", you would be correct. However, if you are going simply by comparing with the average, you're incorrect. The top 10% bracket of taxpayers already pays more than 90% of income taxes. You get the illusion of "unfairness" because government regulations, spending, and inflation hurt the middle class and poor more so than the "rich" (as the latter classes have less to start with). If the government were to seriously "get the rich", we would witness an "Atlas Shrugged" type scenario. They don't need to "get the rich" they just need to be fair. Buffet said in his interview that he has had the advantage in the Bush years of great tax cuts and if he needs to pay more that would be how it should be. It came from the horses mouth. I have always found this interesting. To be "fair" with wages should there not be a flat tax? What the eff is up with this tax bracket system? Never did like income tax anyhow. How about a flat sales tax instead? Or something of that nature... But anyway, back on subject... Noone should be getting an advantage from the U.S. government. This includes the wealthy. We can at least agree there can we not?

artman48 Joined Sun 07/12/09 Posts: 933	Thu 10/29/09 11:03 AM
All this debt represents is the Empire our country's banking system built. You and I are pretty much slaves to the largest banks in the world. Through inflation we can offset the debt, but, that would involve creating more debt. This paradox is the evil of having a Central Bank, and using debt as currency instead of something like a precious metal. To fix this problem, people must first accept that the government cannot afford to take care of them from cradel to grave. This means people must start taking on responsibility for themselves, and get involved in their community. I have often said, that giving money to a third party is no substitute for getting off your arse and cooking a meal or helping to babysit. IF and only if, we can achieve the above, we can dismantle our central bank, and withdraw troops from every country around the world. (Currenty the U.S. has troops in 130 different countries.) This would almost eliminate war, because empires, like the U.S. would stop controlling and taxing every other country. By doing this we can focus on things like education, so our societies may evolve. I believe prosperity can only be achieved by the individual, if that said individual is given the power to prosper. This means smaller government. So much energy can be redirected to growth... Yup, people have become accustomed to EXPECT funds from the government. It's now a "Where's my Money attitude". A lot of Americans work long and hard and are never eligible to get any government help and I often wonder if those that get the money even appreciate the fact that someone else is working their arse off providing the funds through taxes. Isn't that funny that all those working their arses off are getting the most from the government in tax deductions alone. Corporate welfare is just as bad or worse as individuals asking for help from the government and cost the middle class more. Being that those on top pay a far larger share and receive less to begin with, I don't see it as a bad thing. I love how equality is a one way street. It never has been. In a capitalistic society the rich have always had the upper hand. Our middle class has been the backbone of this country and the most abused. You are confusing capitalism with fascism and corpratism. It is capitalism that made the middle class possible during the industrial revolution. If by "the rich" you mean "corporations with political ties", you would be correct. However, if you are going simply by comparing with the average, you're incorrect. The top 10% bracket of taxpayers already pays more than 90% of income taxes. You get the illusion of "unfairness" because government regulations, spending, and inflation hurt the middle class and poor more so than the "rich" (as the latter classes have less to start with). If the government were to seriously "get the rich", we would witness an "Atlas Shrugged" type scenario. They don't need to "get the rich" they just need to be fair. Buffet said in his interview that he has had the advantage in the Bush years of great tax cuts and if he needs to pay more that would be how it should be. It came from the horses mouth. Buffet and his hand full of super rich, don't live in the world you and I do. They run governments. and can say what they want. Its BS. He pays no taxes to speak of and has most of his moneys tied up overseas.

Drivinmenutz Joined Wed 11/14/07 Posts: 4290	Thu 10/29/09 12:01 PM
How about we get back to printing our own money?? Backed with gold!! Kennedy did that in the early 60's It was the last attempt. Look what happend when one man tried to do the right thing. Well--better to borrow from an entity that is neither us government, or legal, for that matter. Study the Fed. reserve 1913--see what I mean. I believe you are referring to Executive order 11110. He ordered our currency to be backed by silver actually. It was supposedly signed on June 4th 1963.