like I've said before...I defer to those that were actually there.

I am foregoing copying and pasting, as it is making the pags too long again lol.

but first as to "all terrorism and its allies not being a decleration of war. no those are only five words, part of a sentence that yuo did not quote completely. As I said, President Bush stated "As President of the United States, I declare that we are now at war with all terrorism and its allies".

That right there is my friend, a decleration of war; and yes I believe the act that gives the President the power to declare war temporarily until Congress can back it up, although for some reason I am thinking htis is getting mixxed up with the "acts" that President Bush made into law a year or two after 9/11.

Anyway, I am not going to bother putting up a link to "prove" I am right as I am not going to waste my time when you have proven in the past to just ignore all proof when it is given. I know I am right, as I listened to the speech myself. I know I am right, because that speech persuaded me into getting back into line at the National Guard as soon as the government lifted its ban on new enlistments in order to go BACK into service. I chose guard over active, because my wife was active, and I needed time to get our son back to Michigan with my parents if my unit were to activate.

iraq, as I stated before and you are so politely ignoring, was declared war upon because it was founded at the time to be producing wmd's and shipping them out of the country, and doing everything they could to hide the fact, thus they were found to be an ally of terrorism.

Afghanistan invited us in, why am I repeating myself here?, in order to go after Al Quida and it's followers, including Bin Lauden.

You have no agenda? You are trying to make socialists of people that are not socialist except in your imagination.

I support our troops too and have family members where were in the service of our country, but they stood for the rigths to all opinions even those they didn't agree with.

Then, I'll concede to the warmongers. Kill 'em all. Let God and Allah sort 'em out.
Where can I order Plastic and industrial strength zippers to make body bags? I want in on the big bucks while the gettin's good!

I’ve heard there are thirty two terrorist camps in the US. They go into our prisons and convert short time perpetrators and take them to these camps. A while back a man killed a solders,I believe in Tennessee, he was a product of one of these camps.

Can anybody say it’s true?
Can anybody say it’s false?
Does anybody care?

I have heard this particular story a couple tiems, though how valid it si I dont know.

You keep quoting speeches and utterances, but these are not declarations of war. I'm interested in you providing me a real declaration of war (make sure your response complies with Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, or it is useless)

I rest my case against your willfull ignorance.

Here is what I was able to find.

Declaration of war by the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...
The United States of America has formally declared war against foreign ... 2001 war in Afghanistan, also known as Operation Enduring Freedom · Afghanistan .... GONZALES: There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_... - 69k - Similar pages
World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fifteen months later Italy declared war on Germany. ... The conspiracy also made attempts to rally the Amir of Afghanistan against British India, ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I - 503k - Similar pages

[ More results from en.wikipedia.org ]
Francis Boyle: The Illegalities of Bush's War on Afghanistan
He failed to get a declaration of war. Despite all the rhetoric we have heard by the ... Congress never declared war against Afghanistan or against anyone. ...

www.counterpunch.org/boyle0917.html - 36k - Similar pages
Should the U.S. go to war without a declaration of war?
Did Congress declare war on Iraq or Afghanistan? Nope. ... that essentially turned out to be a disguised declaration of war against North Vietnam. ... By going back to only fighting wars where Congress has declared war, we would be in a ...

www.johntreed.com/declarationofwar.html - 13k - Similar pages

That's not a nice thing to say to a vet.

I have no ignorance (willful or otherwise), but you may continue your empty self-flagellation and ignore the proof provided if you like. It may well be as entertaining as the other lies and half truths that come from the media and the government. I'm looking forward to it.

Obama is intelligent but he is controlled by the folks who controlled G.W. Bush before him . The neo cons are still at the helm and giving orders of the day . Congratulations to both Obama and G. w. Bush for being led like dogs in iron leash.... .

I am a Vet.
I earned the right to voice my opinion.
Like I said, ask most any Viet Nam Vet and they will tell about how Politicians and the military lies to you.
The biggest lie they tell is, "We have your back."

I stand by my previous statement. I offer no appologies. The idea that fighting in the war on terror is noble but ineffective is a LIberal/Socialist lie. Liberals have adopted the Socialist platform. Socialism has proved to be nothing more than a set of ideals used to find fault with other forms of government. It offers no real lasting solutions. Perhaps some here are Socialists and dont even know it.

You're right, but you omit that American Conservatives have adopted the fascist position. No biggie, just interested in completeness.

You didn't get my point but then I expected you might not, your too focused on the socialist boogey man.

i HOPE THAT WHEN THEY HAVE KILLED ALL OF BINS FRIENDS over there they come back and get his friends here and the kids .
one more thing you can't declare war against a group of people . it has to be a country . read a book ..

Al Queada and Bin Laden officially and publicly declared war against the United States

it doesn't matter if we want to be in a war. We are whether we like it or not

the only alternative is to turn belly up and let em destroy us

which is what some people here advocate



ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A never-before-seen al Qaeda video obtained by CNN shows Osama bin Laden declaring war against the United States and the West.

The tape of a May 26, 1998, news conference is among 64 obtained in Afghanistan from a source, who said the tapes were found in an Afghan house where bin Laden had stayed. Experts say the collection of tapes sheds new light on al Qaeda's training, capabilities and mindset.

"By God's grace," bin Laden says on the tape, "we have formed with many other Islamic groups and organizations in the Islamic world a front called the International Islamic Front to do jihad against the crusaders and Jews."

"And by God's grace," he says at another point in the tape, "the men ... are going to have a successful result in killing Americans and getting rid of them."

CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen, who interviewed bin Laden a year earlier, believes the tape depicts a key moment for al Qaeda.

"They're going public," Bergen said. "They're saying, 'We're having this war against the United States.'"

Accompanying bin Laden on the video are Ayman Al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's right-hand man and inspirational ally, and military adviser Mohammad Atef, who died last November in coalition bombing.

Although a select group of Pakistani journalists and one Chinese writer were invited to witness as al Qaeda launched its jihad on the West, the event never got wide exposure because no independent videotaping was allowed.

Ismail Khan was one of the journalists there that day.

"We were given a few instructions, you know, on how to photograph and only take a picture of Osama and the two leaders who were going to sit close by him. Nobody else," Khan said.

Rohan Gunaratna, an international terrorism expert and author of "Inside Al Qaeda," suggests security was a key reason for keeping the video under wraps.

"Making that tape public would compromise the security of al Qaeda and of Osama bin Laden," he said. "They did not release that tape."

Among those who appear with bin Laden are the two sons of Sheik Abdul Rahman, the spiritual leader of those convicted of blowing up the World Trade Center in 1993. He is now in a U.S. prison for planning other attacks on New York.

Bergen says the significance of the sons' presence at the press conference "can't be underestimated." They distribute what they claim is the will of their father, which calls for attacks on Americans.

"The purported will states, 'Attack them on the sea. Attack them on the land. Attack them everywhere. Attack their economy,'" Bergen said.

The connection to Rahman, Bergen said, is key for bin Laden, who uses the sheik's spiritual guidance as a religious fig leaf from behind which bin Laden broadens his terror groups' appeal to radicals.

With hindsight, the important moments on the video are easy to pick out, including bin Laden hinting at an attack on U.S. targets.

Within 11 weeks of the declaration, al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in bombings that killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.

And perhaps almost as chilling, because it didn't happen, al-Zawahiri appears to justify an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt.