There is only one Book of the Bible that I refer to, it is the KJV. I am
just a little afraid to read and take for truth the writings of newer
simple men, trying to make it easier to read by their interpretations.

It is MY opinion that spider is not trying to force his beliefs down
anyones throats, but quite passionate about what he reads as truth. We
all have our truths according to the Bible. Mine changes with each new
reading. He is passionate, and I find that commendable. Now when he
becomes less aggressive, lessening his anger, he will be better
understood.
Now, I do believe that we cannot and should not put lables on anyone. We
have for the most part given ourselves our own lables.

Spider, I read you well. I understand your intense want to help those
that you perceive as "on the road to hell". Or being intelligent enough
and expressing their words in a way that could change a weaker persons
view of something they may be trying to understand for themselves. You
cannot do that by showing anger.
Going to church as a young person is what turned me away from believing
in God in the first place. The ways that I was seeing, hearing such
anger associated with God. It scared me. It made me fear anything even
remotely being of God. I thought Him to be mad and evil. Please be
careful how you let those we worry about perceive you and our God. The
strength you wish to show, is and will be taken more serious when you
can calm down and let people be who they are. NOT PERFECT. Your belief
and knowledge in the Bible and God is to be commended. I applaud you. I
have faith that you will get better at what you want to be known. But
anger and contextual names is ammunition for a brawl.
I myself am amazed at your short learned interpretation of the Bible.
Anger begets anger, love begets love. To teach, you must teach with
kindness, love, patience, be gentle in your approach and in your
responses.
Just my opinion. I hope you do not think me to be stepping out of bounds
by posting these thoughts to you.

Kat

spider once again you have twisted what I said.

I have not said that we dont have Grace. I have said AND IT IS BACKED
UP BY YOUR OWN QUOTES FROM SCRIPTURE that Grace is not complete.

There are still yet 5 prophesies to be fulfilled.

Until those prophesies are fulfilled the law does remain in effect BY
THE WORDS OF THE ONE YOU PROFESS TO BE SPEAKING FOR.

Your are still graced with forgivness yet you should strive to follow
the law (I agree it is an impossible task for one who is not Christ) yet
in just attempting to follow as much as possible Grace will be increased
upon you sevenfold. And forgivness is givin for he condemns us not but
asks that we go forth an sin not again.

As far as quoting scripture. Go back and read the posts. I quote only
what you have allready put out there. You sir are the one that quotes
at nearly every post. I put out not the quote but what I have seen in
the Book of God and what I have been given to say.

I am being punished for something, all I do is respond to the same post
over and over agian...


Grace was completed on the cross, we know that, because Jesus said "It
is done." What prophecies do you believe have to be fullfilled for
"Grace to be complete"? What scriptures do you base this belief on?
Don't post Matthew 5:17-20, because that's about Law, not Grace. They
are two seperate concepts.

There aren't levels to grace, you either receive grace or you don't.
Grace is total forgiveness for your sins. You can't get more than total
forgiveness.

Yes spider in this community area there tends to be always a repetition
of explanations going on.

I applaud you for it! After, awhile I just move on. LOL Can't do it!

boredchick07,

I don't know, I guess I'm not doing a very good job. I wish someone
else would jump in and answer these issues, because I'm failing to
communicate the difference between Law and Grace.

Spider: Do not say that. To say you are being punished is to believe
that. To believe that will cause weakness. You are not being punished.
You are being challenged (or strongly debated)and therefore made to seek
clearer and more precise knowledge. By you doing so, I am in fact being
also made to read deeper. Learning with each new post from those I
respect here. We are works in progress, growing with each new step that
we take.
Kat

Spider you know that you ALWAYS do an excellent job replying. Aww

Remember there is a spiritual blindess that hinders people and there
tends to be alot of confusion. We talked about this ^_~

some of us have been reading the bible long before the two of you were
born, and what we say is by experience and not blind trust in words
written by men.

Age has NOTHING to do with it. It's the heart and your connection with
God that will open your eyes. Knowledge comes from the Spirit of God,
not from man.

Thank you

The law is good. It brings sanity and clarity. -- Psalm 119:7; 1 Timothy
1:8. (Legalists tend to make the law look bad, but it's not the law that
is bad, but the wrong use of the law by legalists.)

The law has no power to sanctify. The law does not offer a substitute.
I'm 100% responsible. It demands absolute perfection from you. -- James
2:10.

The gospel brings power. It offers a substitute. We have "rightness"
through Christ.

The tendency, in our daily lives, is to confuse the law and the gospel
with the result that we lose them both. Each has its place.

Means thinking my actions or things I do will make people like me.
Brings a preoccupation with self
Fosters an independent spirit.
Will always be critical and judgmental.
Creates high expectation (of performance) -- of self and others.
Means fears and anxieties control our life. Requires strength in
ourselves to complete a task. Means we do not know how to love. Means we
do not know how to forgive. Means we do not know how to bring others to
Christ because we do not know how to bring ourselves to Christ.
Destroys confidence in Christ's ability to bridge the gap between God's
demands and man's sinfulness.
Determines worth by what we are doing.




Grace:
I am FREE FROM THE LAW'S CONDEMNATION and demand. It has no power over
my conscience. My sins are paid for, and I have Jesus' obedience. I need
not look to the law to save me.

I also need not look to the law to sanctify me. It is not my growth. I
grow by faith, which results in obedience. I am FREE FROM THE LAW AS MY
HOLINESS -- Christ is my holiness.

I am FREE FROM THE LAW BEING A MEASURE OF MY CLOSENESS TO GOD or my
spirituality.
I am FREE FROM USING THE LAW AGAINST OTHERS.
I am FREE FROM THE PRIDE of keeping the law.

Means believing there is no goodness in us to perform a single act of
obedience without the power of the Spirit.
Means believing our sins are forgiven, and we can then forgive others.
Means accepting our position as sons/daughters without condemnation.
Means knowing the power of the flesh (if given into) will bring internal
conflict and conflict with others. Means believing we now have the
Spirit's power to love our neighbor.
Means understanding there is a war with the flesh, the world, and the
devil, but they are not greater than Christ. Means believing our life is
under God's sovereign control and that His will is good, acceptable and
perfect. Means learning to go to our Heavenly Father in prayer to settle
our problems and to have our needs met.

Will this work spider?

Bored, your post implies like Spiders posts do, that you determine who
knows about the Holy Spirit and who is saved.
You do not know it for me nor for anybody else, only for yourselves, so
do not judge anybody, you have no right to do so.
That we belief different doesn't give you any knowledge about us, and
I'm quite sure you know what the bible says about judging others.

Spider, you're not being punished. However, when you approach people to
discuss the truth, you should avoid doing it in an accusatory manner.
Expect people to draw up their defenses when you aim at it that way. In
*my* opinion (and I say MY because it is how *I* interpret *my*
relationship with God) you are doing more harm than good here when
referring to new Christians. I'm by far a vet at the Faith Walk, but
I'm not new to this either... but really by the way you're coming at
some of these people, and it may be that you can't be personable on the
internet... difficult to show emotion, etc, discourages me! And I'm not
easily discouraged. I understand you're passionate, but if your goal is
to win Souls for the kingdom or at least to spark interest for someone
to discover God's Will for themselves, This may not be the way to go
about it. But all you can do is put it out there, either they choose to
accept it or they don't. But to argue with someone you consider to be
not of the faith is not wise... but it's just my opinion... I could be
wrong.

great post scttbrian

I would also like to add you can be a babe in christ in your 40's
depending on your individual walk spiritually.

We all have areas we need to work on and I know there are some for me
also. But don't think for 1 second because I am younger, my progress is
insignificant.

lol I wasn't judging anyone. In the text form of communication there can
be alot misunderstood.

Also don't judge me without knowing me. I leave your beliefs to you and
I'll leaves my beliefs with me.

But don't get all up tight if you don't read something in a response you
don't want to see. That's not towards you in general but for anyone.

I have to go. I was up 9am for a class. God bless and peace be with
everyone

I must say this: I have found that many people that say they have read
the Bible have not. They may have read a chapter here and there. They
may have thumbed through it a few times, but never completely. I can say
that I MAY HAVE read it a few times over because of my research, but
never front to back as in a novel. I would never DARE to say that
because one is older that they have one-up-ance on someone younger. I
have come across many young people that have clear and consise knowledge
of the Bible.

I am 53 soon to be 54. I must say that my knowledge grows and changes by
each day. But, to say that a younger person has less information than I
about the Bible is quite silly.

Kat

Kat, I refer to the implication in several posts that because we are not
"saved" we are not able to read the bible properly, that we are not able
to interpret the bible properly.
I, as a teenager, have read the bible with my pastor, so nobody is
telling me I don't know anything.
I am actually "saved", because I feel one with God.
So how can anybody tell me, how I have to read the bible or to interpret
it, or better how I can not read the bible.
This is a point of selfrightiousness that bothers me a lot.
If Spider or anybody else tells me I'm not "saved", then it is
prejudice on their behalf, not on mine.
I'm getting sick and tired of being called names because somebody who
thinks he has it all judges me without knowing anything about me.

The way I look at this is, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John... 4 books of
the bible covering the same period, 4 different views of the same
events, 4 different interpretations of what happened. There is 1 bible.
Many different interpretations of it, and many PERSONAL interpretations
of the same bible. If I do not agree with another Christians
interpretation, that doesn't mean I'm not one of them. It means I don't
agree. I don't agree with my pastor all of the time, but it doesn't
make him wrong, it makes me want to find out more for myself. Does that
make sense at all? We're not all going agree on interpretations of the
scripture, but as Christians we can all agree that what we don't know
we'll work earnestly to discover the truth as it applies to our personal
walk with Christ. The key word is PERSONAL. Your walk is your own
PERSONAL walk. What is an epiphany to you may be garbage to someone
else, what is an AHA moment for me may be a whatever moment to you...
But it is PERSONAL. Not saying don't share what God has shown you or
what God has done, but some folks are just not going to get it. And
what seems so plain to you, hasn't been revealed to them yet... remember
you didn't wake up one day knowing everything you know! (that was just a
general to everybody no one in particular)

With all due respect to everyone here. These forums are not a church.

Spider’s concern about ‘baby Christians’ drinking poisoned milk on these
forum is totally baseless.

These forums are not a Christian church.

This forum is entitled “Religions Chat” not “St. Spider’s Cathedral”.

This forum is not intended to be used as pulpit to preach from.

The idea here is to share everyone’s view no matter what their views
are.

Non-religious people have every right posting their views on any
documents or writings that exist on Earth regardless of the documents
significance with respect to any organized religions.

The Bible is no exception to this. If someone views it as ‘just another
book’ then this is their view and it’s a perfectly valid view. They
are perfectly within their right to comment on their interpretation of
it as just another book.

Spider is totally out of line telling people what they may or may not do
on this forum. And he is also totally out of line claiming to have the
only ‘correct’ interpretation of anything.

If he wishes to give his interpretation that’s perfectly within the
scope of the intent of these forums. But as soon as he starts claiming
that other people’s interpretations are ‘incorrect’ then he has crossed
over a line that should not be crossed. All he is really telling people
is that their opinion on things is invalid and only his opinion is
correct.

That’s not only against the purpose of these forums, but it’s also quite
rude and disrespectful.

You really need to back off Spider and rethink your whole approach to
things. Presenting your view is fine. However, trying to become the
high-priest of the forums claiming to have the only correct divine
knowledge of religion is not merely voicing an option but it is
displaying an exceeding amount of arrogance (self importance).

Also, you have absolutely no right to tell non-religious people that the
shouldn’t comment on the Bible. No- religious people have every right
to comment on any written document they wish to comment on. To them the
Bible is just another book, and they have every right to voice that
interpretation and comment on it.

This is NOT A CHURCH spider. It’s a discussion forum on any topics of
religion which includes views from people who disbelieve in religion.
A disbelief in a religion is still a valid view that is on-topic. So
atheists are quite welcome here.

I'm sorry, I did not notice anyone called you names. I shall go and look
again. I was responding to what I thought was a perception to someone
younger not knowing what they were talking about.

As much as I have read and re read many parts of the Bible, I still
cannot say that I have wisdom to the exacting words. I find that I learn
more and become better with wisdom than earlier thought. It's as
though....well....here's a thought,"I once was blind, but now I see"
(seems appropriate)that is how I feel when I keep researching. What I
thought I knew is now more clear. I see something new and more amazing
each time I read it.

I apologize if I said something to cause you discomfort.
Kat

Invisible wrote:
“I am actually "saved", because I feel one with God. So how can anybody
tell me, how I have to read the bible or to interpret it, or better how
I can not read the bible.”

I absolutely agree with you Andrea. You have every write to voice your
interpretations of things, and your own personal feelings of how you
view God and what your relationship is with God.

Spider (nor anyone else) has any right to pass judgment on you.

Just for the record Andrea, I can clearly see the love of God shining
brightly from you like a sparklingly diamond.