I will keep my ears and guard up and have one less double vodka next time or maybe quit drinking altogether. Does anything good ever really come of it?

But what a shame. The point of going out IS to let your hair DOWN. This is starting to sound like a lot of trouble.

sounds like you needed new friends anyway . . .

guys lose friendships over unworthy girls too.it's part of life,so ya might as well have a cat fight and turn some guys on

I've never understood the fascination of drinking and getting drunk to begin with to be quite honest. Never got into it, rarely drink and if I do it's like a glass of wine at a restaurant, but that's it.

It's silly to me, you end up making a fool of yourself at the least if not worse sometimes, and end up in pain the next day. That's fun? I'll pass thanks.

As for the rest, there's plenty of ways to let your hair down and have a good time without alcohol and drama that comes with it and the club scene in general. Try and find some other ways to have fun, maybe go bowling for example if you're into that, or if you do go out to a club, make sure there's no alcohol involved.

sounds like you needed new friends anyway . . .

This was my attempt to connect with some friends that do this just about EVERY weekend. I'm not really into it but went for the sake of being social.

Agreed on making a fool! I've decided I like having full control over myself ESPECIALLY in a barroom.

You know something, I'm gonna be honest here, any guy that gets off on the idea of two women hurting each other in any way like that, isn't that much of a man to me. I admit I do have my struggles in this area though and want to make it right and view women properly, but women deserve better then that to be viewed as objects in that way among the other ways they are seen in this culture.

A true man would do anything he could to protect a lady from being hurt in such an occurance, not just stand back and watch while he gets off. I think it's rather degrading for women to have to put up with that type of thing.

If they are gonna choose their player boyfriends over a real friend, then you really don't need them. You know your friends and the situation at hand so it is up to you to make that call, but it sounds like they are blaming you for the players club faults

Yep, it's totally degrading. I'm wondering why these friends continue to frequent this bar and accept the quality of men they're meeting there.

Maybe they on some level feel that's all they deserve? I know a lot of women tend to see themselves how the world sees them, as bodies, nothing more then pleasure givers for the men, that they don't matter, that their hearts and souls don't matter as much as whether they put or not, or how big their breasts are. Even though deep down inside they aren't happy, they go along with it, cause the culture expects this of women now, to look and act a certain way. I feel sorry for a lot of women to be honest and even some men.

There's so much pressure to act like everyone else, to treat sex as a game, as something that can be easily given away to anyone that wants it even if they don't deserve it, to use the other for love and for lust. So much pressure to have a particular look, to conform to the world's beauty standards.

To go against all that is to basically become an outcast, cause very few seem to really understand what truly matters, that they mean something, that their heart and soul matters more then anything exterior, that they are worth waiting for. It's so sad that things are so backwards like this, it's like right is wrong and wrong is right.

that is beautifully stated

Maybe they on some level feel that's all they deserve? I know a lot of women tend to see themselves how the world sees them, as bodies, nothing more then pleasure givers for the men, that they don't matter, that their hearts and souls don't matter as much as whether they put out or not, or how big their breasts are. Even though deep down inside they aren't happy, they go along with it, cause the culture expects this of women now, to look and act a certain way. I feel sorry for a lot of women to be honest and even some men.

There's so much pressure to act like everyone else, to treat sex as a game, as something that can be easily given away to anyone that wants it even if they don't deserve it, to use the other for love and for lust. So much pressure to have a particular look, to conform to the world's beauty standards.

To go against all that is to basically become an outcast, cause very few seem to really understand what truly matters, that they mean something, that their heart and soul matters more then anything exterior, that they are worth waiting for. It's so sad that things are so backwards like this, it's like right is wrong and wrong is right.

This is so very true, Kleisto. I must admit I catch myself playing into that role of pleasure giver. It's a good thing to give pleasure I can't argue, but to feel used and valued solely on this basis neglects the heart and soul.

Thank you, I try my best

People have got to realize this, sex does matter, but it also has a place, in a committed relationship and a marriage. It stands for something, a symbol of love and commitment, it's not something to be taken lightly. Real true sex, intimacy, goes way deeper then anything physical. It's bonding at it's deepest level, physically, emotionally and spiritually, that's what sex is really about and really means, but we've lost that, and turned something beautiful into something cheap and tawdry.

This is why so many get hurt and end up alone, why so many marriages fail, so many broken homes and families, unwanted kids (and by extension abortion), we've taken sex out of where it belongs. Whatever happened to really getting to know someone before sharing yourself with them on that level? Whatever happened to respecting our bodies, respecting ourselves?

Bottom line really is simply this, in the end the physical looks fade, it's the heart and soul of a person that lasts longest, right to the end of our lives, and as such really is what matters the most when you come down to it. If we as a society could realize this, and change our priorities as to what is important to us, I think the world would be a lot better off, and people in general would be happier.

Indeed, real true love and intimacy feeds the body, the mind and the soul all in one, it's all encompassing. Anything less then that isn't really love as much as it is lust.

I understand what you mean about playing into that role of pleasure giver too, cause I've been just as bad on the man's side of things as far as taking, far more then I'd like to admit even if I have my virginity (which is really about all I have).

It's very easy to get sucked into that life, when everywhere people are screaming at you to not think and just act, to not care for anyone else except yourself and your own pleasure. Messages come at us from all sides today as to how to be, it can be very overwhelming.

But if one really wishes to rise above it, they can, we are not slaves to our bodies, and we are not slaves to the world. We can do better if we put our minds to it.

It's a little frightening to talk about looks fading. That may be a little messed up but I've many times felt they were the only thing I had to live for..

To the point, I think guys expect sex too soon in a relationship.

Thank you so much for writing this morning I am inspired by your words to take and give better care