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| Topic: Does randomness allow free will? | |
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To mimic something is not creativity. No one said it was. There would also be tell-tale flaws and limitations. You could easily discover the difference. Easy to say, but... Have any substance to back it up? There are new programs which consistently beat the best grandmasters in the world. In fact, the program has been falsely accused of being manipulated by a human during the game. You would not know the difference, either. |
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To mimic something is not creativity. No one said it was. There would also be tell-tale flaws and limitations. You could easily discover the difference. Easy to say, but... Have any substance to back it up? There are new programs which consistently beat the best grandmasters in the world. In fact, the program has been falsely accused of being manipulated by a human during the game. You would not know the difference, either. In a game of chess, you are right. I am lousy at chess. |
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I don't give a rats butt about that statement. That is NOT what this conversation was about. It is about a question about computers solving problems. Buh... Buh... Buh... WTF???? If you cannot see the underlying correlation, what is the point in my continuing? Besides that, you never stay on point anyway.  |
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human.
I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. |
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No argument here on that!
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Fri 08/07/09 12:38 AM
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*------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* I beg your pardon, Creative, but it would sure be nice if you * * could exercise a bit of the soul in your contre-arguments,* *rather than just ridiculing your opponent -- especially a lady! * *------------------------------------------------------------------------------* Anyways, here's my "IRREFUTABLE" opinion on the subject: What seems to differentiate the Computer's/programmer's reasoning from that of a Human (i.e. a regular person --RP) is the fact of the necessity of defining all of the variables that the program is using -- otherwise, the program wouldn't work (spitting the code out with a shout: "UNDEFINED VARIABLE!!!) Whereas a RP's reasoning is enriched with an extra "pantom variable, called INTUITION that defies any logic!!! And some of the RP's often successfully deploy that "thing" in the abscence of the direct/logical answer! Such a variable may certainly be introduced into the program, but the conditional invocation of the function handling that variable will necessarily destroy it's randomness, i.e. the ILLOGICALITY or illogical nature), turning it into a simple decision based on the value of True or False! (0 or 1) *** And that's what NO present day computer (i.e. programmer) is capable of -- handling (programming) a Phantom variable!!! (not to mention a Mental Influence...) |
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* I beg your pardon, Creative, but it would sure be nice, if you could exercise * *a bit of the soul in your contre-arguments, rather than just ridiculing your* *opponent -- especially a lady! * I am trying to help her, and I do not consider her as an opponent. So there! |
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs.  But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror. 
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror.  Hey,once a computer comes along that can improve itself then it won't be long before machines become living beings.
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror. Hey,once a computer comes along that can improve itself then it won't be long before machines become living beings. That would be the end of mankind. Ask Arnold.
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror. Hey,once a computer comes along that can improve itself then it won't be long before machines become living beings. That would be the end of mankind. Ask Arnold. Yes that,and perhaps a new begining as well. I have watched Terminator but I think Battlestar Galactica was better.The Cylons are like something that would REALLY happen once machines become living beings
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 08/07/09 12:25 AM
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror. Hey,once a computer comes along that can improve itself then it won't be long before machines become living beings. That would be the end of mankind. Ask Arnold. Yes that,and perhaps a new begining as well.I have watched Terminator but I think Battlestar Galactica was better.The Cylons are like something that would REALLY happen once machines become living beings Well humans are simply biological machines with emotions animated by spirit. A Cylon type machine being or Reptilian humanoid, or android, could be known to exist one day but with different types of consciousness and emotions. |
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Fri 08/07/09 12:32 AM
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The best, relatively modern sci-fi book about androids:
"I, Robot", by Isaak Asimov (USA) |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 08/07/09 12:36 AM
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The best, relatively modern sci-fi book about androids: "I, Robot", by Isaak Asimov (USA) Great movie too. Staring Will Smith. |
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Fri 08/07/09 01:21 AM
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WOW, I wasn't aware they made a movie out of "I, Robot"!
Anyways, the book is much more penetrating... (aside of the fact of W. Smith never takes the "science" roles -- only those of a fiction... (even if about the future!) On the other hand -- while I was writing and editing this message -- I recalled: I've seen it! ... wonderful thriller -- yet, doesn't give you the insights of the android's psychi... |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Fri 08/07/09 01:22 AM
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S1owland is a program that's running on his own churning out the data that make the women moan They beg him for a copy of his enigmatic code and try to plug his cable in their femininic node Procreating data in the form of DNA assimilating all his thoughts even those that are risqué Bits and bytes of knowledge nibbling at their minds driving women crazy as it propagates their spines Spinning like a galaxy his disk a whirling mass the women wanton frantically to be his lov'in lass No one knows who programmed him some say that he evolved that's a secret mystery that's yet to be resolved http://users.csonline.net/designer/ideas/slowhand.mp3 i just became sentient last week. i still feel like i am a little shallow and callous. i am thinking about trying to learn to be a bit more understanding, be a better listener, and trying to develop "hobbies". i do have a better appreciation now of what all the preoccupation with sex is about. i kinda wish i could eat. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Fri 08/07/09 07:06 AM
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is the fact of the necessity of defining all of the variables that the program is using Your very close to the real problem that is being worked on now. Its not the programmer having to define every variable, adaptive programs can insert variables on there own, its that for any given situation there is a possibility of an infinite number of lines of inquiry. One example is that a bomb is inside a room on top of a wagon. The computer's problem is not figuring out the problem, its figuring out the problem before the bomb goes off. The computer tries to go through every single variable in the room, it goes through each one and marks it off as an action that would not achieve the result until it gets to the proper one, this is not how human minds work(unless damaged). In the last two years new sets of logic have been developed that have the potential to over come these problems, only time will tell. I myself feel its inevitable. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 08/07/09 09:37 AM
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is the fact of the necessity of defining all of the variables that the program is using Your very close to the real problem that is being worked on now. Its not the programmer having to define every variable, adaptive programs can insert variables on there own, its that for any given situation there is a possibility of an infinite number of lines of inquiry. One example is that a bomb is inside a room on top of a wagon. The computer's problem is not figuring out the problem, its figuring out the problem before the bomb goes off. The computer tries to go through every single variable in the room, it goes through each one and marks it off as an action that would not achieve the result until it gets to the proper one, this is not how human minds work(unless damaged). In the last two years new sets of logic have been developed that have the potential to over come these problems, only time will tell. I myself feel its inevitable. If that happens, this is how it will probably happen: Currently technology is beginning to merge computers with the human brain. Of course the purpose of this endeavor is to equip a human with more accessible computing power along with creating controllable human type robots or androids. BUT this is what will happen. A learning computer will begin learning FROM THE HUMAN CONNECTION and it will then program itself. Now someone should write a new book and movie called: THE HUMAN CONNECTION A STORY ABOUT THIS JOURNAL OF EVENTS... WRITTEN BY A COMPUTER. |
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So all you are saying is that a computer can be programmed by one human to do something that would fool another human. I agree. What I am saying is simply that a computer cannot think real thoughts. It only runs programs. But that's all going to change when the Singularity occurs You read too much Internet Mirror. Hey,once a computer comes along that can improve itself then it won't be long before machines become living beings. That would be the end of mankind. Ask Arnold. Yes that,and perhaps a new begining as well.I have watched Terminator but I think Battlestar Galactica was better.The Cylons are like something that would REALLY happen once machines become living beings Well humans are simply biological machines with emotions animated by spirit. A Cylon type machine being or Reptilian humanoid, or android, could be known to exist one day but with different types of consciousness and emotions. Yes,exactly
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