But like I said, wouldnt someone have to start out as a child only to see a plan like that come to fruition when they are old? And once the entire world found out it would be instant gameover. There is not "too late". What would make it "too late"?

I dont know about supervillains. I just see people out to profit from other people ,and protect their ablity to make those profits. Nothing new about that. And much more believable.

Ohh...I thought we were talking about the health care plan.

You're talking about the bailouts that Bush started and handed part two over to Obama. Then Obama talked to top economists to try to figure out what to do. If those companies went down, so did the jobs and whole communities. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

This medical plan is a bailout.

1 trillion bucks worth.

it ain't bout your medical care(perhaps for a few politicians it is) its about money... Who will get it? How much will they get?

You think its chance that the white house received so many guests from the medical corporations?

They was makin sure they get their grip when the hand come outa the pocket.

I disagree. It's about taking care of the people that fell through the cracks. It's about 46 million Americans, under the age of 65, that don't have health insurance.

correct me if i,m wrong but you don,t have to use the doctors if you don,t want . hire a doctor if you want you pay for it if you can . but the countries i have seen with medical programs are doing ok with them and you can if you want hire a doctor of your own choice even there . just think of Obama program as life insurance the policy of last resort . personally i think we could get a better price if we got rid of health insurance completely because then doctors would have to complete for business ..and for you capitalist , that is pure capitalist . no guarantees

Ummmm...is this ? If so, I'm sorry...I'm afraid it took me some time to get my facts straight.



From what I've been reading, those who pay taxes and have health insurance are already paying a great deal for the care of the under and uninsured. Unfortunately, those folks aren't getting very good care. Seems they usually don't seek treatment for common, highly treatable illnesses until they are seriously, sometimes dangerously, ill.


From "The Uninsured: A Primer" by the Kaiser Foundation *note the date*

"Projected Government vs. Private Dollars as Share of Total Uncompensated Care in 2004

Private Dollars - $6 Billion(15%)
State Dollars - $11 Billion(27%)
Federal Dollars - $24 Billion(58%)

Total = $40.7 Billion


From the Wichita Eagle (Wichita, Kan.) 05/29/2009:

"Study Says Insured Pay Uninsured's Health Costs"

The average family pays more than $1,000 a year in additional insurance premiums to cover the cost of treating the uninsured, according to a new study by a Washington-based health research and advocacy group.



Seems that the health care in countries with 'socialized medicine' may be better at caring for the least of us. Infant mortality rates are commonly used as a yardstick to gauge the health of a country's over-all population. The following are the estimated infant mortality rates for the U.S. and a few countries that do things differently.

From the Cia World Fact Book:

United Kingdom 4.85(deaths/1000 live births) 2009 est.

Canada 5.04(deaths/1000 live births) 2009 est.

Cuba 5.82(deaths/1000 live births) 2009 est

United States 6.26(deaths/1000 live births) 2009 est.


I'm thinking I'd rather have my money spent to keep people well than have it spent to clean up after they crash and burn...rather everyone have access to treatment for things like high blood pressure, diabetes and heart disease than read about breakthroughs such as hand transplants and the like.

LouLou2, nicely said.

Thank you. Too verbose, I'm afraid...

Nawww....you covered several points.

#1: Glad we are at least talking about this.

#2: Competition always lowers prices.

#3: You need not participate.

#4: Those who can get no insurance currently will have options.

#5: This may all be a leveraging tactic and we'll see a plan which is far less-reaching actually enacted.

#6: I only dislike that I MUST take insurance if I have none currently. That said, this stipulation will grow the pool of consumers using insurance as a concession to the big healthcare companies we have now.

#7: The HMO is where we lost our path. It added a layer of profit into the system at the expense of quality.

#8: Those who are concerned about inadequate care can always go to a doctor/hospital and pay for it like always. So, if you think seniors or the sick will get screwed, keep in mind that they are screwed now.

#9: Why do we, as Americans, think that healthcare insurance is to be used like a discount program? You don't demand a special rate for a plumber from your homeowner's insurance, so why do we have the mindset that health insurance should work that way? If you are wise, pay for your doctor out of pocket when you need him/her at a lower rate (as I do). Then, carry insurance for catastrophic situations, as with other insurances, rather than run to your doctor with a hang nail which can be rectified at home because you have a "low" co-payment. That's wasteful and adds expense and burden to your doctor's operational expenses.

Otherwise, I suggest we wait to see what the plan will be before we assume things. The atmosphere of fear of what is to come has been created by industries who are scared to see their golden goose disappear. Notice how concessions from big insurers have already been offered, yet the plan has yet to be set in stone? That means THEY are afraid, no? If the system is being fairly meted out now as efficiently as possible, WHY are they so scared?

Because with the government that far into the loop the'll have to share the pot...

Boxman allways gets a percentage of the rake.

Government (special interests) is sittin box.

The government doesn't stand to make money on this. If they did, why would we be discussing how we are going to pay for all this?

I'd love it to be a profit center, btw. It just won't happen.

Not the Federal Government that is a mere conduit for the cash flow.

Those that sit seats in power.

Bet they (most) have cash flow in some way from this.

Still going to cost US.

But they will get theirs no doubt about it.

dont fear healthcare reform.
I am from Belgium, everything works fine here,
people are shocked if they hear what healthcare costs in the USA.

I don't fear reform I fear people who fear reform.

I like the idea of coverage for catastrophic. I never go to a doctor, most things can be handled by just doing a bit of homework and dealing with it yourself. I'm 59 almost 60 and most of the 60 year olds I know are on a half dozen pills and see the doctor at least 2 times a month, and all because they never took care of themselves in the first place, which they freely admit.

Thank you. And who said it isn't socialized medicine?? That numnuts just said last week that the fed gov't will be "grading" doctors on the quality of care they're giving their patients should this communist bill pass. Those stupid libs admit that they haven't read the 1,000 page bill that they themselves want passed. All I can say is, take good care of yourself, if this idiotic liberal bill passes, you're gonna be in for a loooooooong wait for medically necessary treatment.

And the "poor"? Please. They have medicaid.

Medicaid is state socialized medicine and with so many people being laid off what would they do with out this. Medicare is also socialized medicine.
Your place of employment usually takes a hefty chunk out of your paycheck to pay for your private insurance ( some companies are more generous than others). Then after that you are paying co-pays for Dr. visits and medications. Hmmmmmmm.
I think this is a math problem.