Topic: Almost Nationwide conceled carry
Ladylid2012's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:16 PM


oh more bleeding hearts. we have to have guns since must of you want illegal aliens to invade our country.


please explain what guns and gun control has to do with illegal aliens?


That is a whole different thread...

supermike48's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:16 PM
well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.

plk1966's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:19 PM

well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


I am sorry but I did not insult you and do not appreciate you insulting my by referring that my friends are illegal aliens. You have a right to your opinion as do I.

Maybe next time you will think before you speak.

franshade's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:20 PM

well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


Please don't go back to Russia, I'd miss you terribly flowerforyou

I am taking the high road here Mr. Mike, keep all comments on topic and not a personal level on my person or anyone. You can speak whatever language you deem fit, it doesn't concern me, it doesn't affect me as if you and I ever had to deal with each other we'd use sign language:wink: I'd smile and you'd smile back :wink:




willing2's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:20 PM
Edited by willing2 on Tue 07/21/09 12:20 PM



The fact that the human feels a need to carry a weapon for power is sick in and of itself. Pissed off legal gun owners brandish and use their weapons in illegal displays of power all the time.

We do not need more guns in public we need less. No legal gun owner saves people in times of crisis as has been implied they would all along. Legal gun owners can be just as dangerous to the public as the illegal gun owner can be. There is no difference when they are shooting and killing innocent people.



Where are the stats to back up your claim?


Statistics, Gun Control Issues, and Safety
Gunshot wounds inpact severely on the criminal justice as well as health care systems. Some basic statistics are important in understanding the magnitude and severity of the social and economic burden to the U.S.

In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, but has since declined steadily.(CDC, 2001) However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2004).

The number of non-fatal injuries is considerable--over 200,000 per year in the U.S. Many of these injuries require hospitalization and trauma care. A 1994 study revealed the cost per injury requiring admission to a trauma center was over $14,000. The cumulative lifetime cost in 1985 for gunshot wounds was estimated to be $911 million, with $13.4 billion in lost productivity. (Mock et al, 1994) The cost of the improper use of firearms in Canada was estimated at $6.6 billion per year. (Chapdelaine and Maurice, 1996)

The rates of firearms deaths in the U.S. vary significantly by race and sex. The U.S. national average was 10.3 deaths per 100,000 population in 2001. The highest rate was 34.5/100,000 for African-American males, more than double the rate of 16.3/100,000 for white males and well above the rate of 2.7/100,000 for white females. (CDC, 2004)

Firearms Death Rate (per 100,000, age adjusted) for Selected Countries in one year between 1990 and 1995 (Krug, Powell and Dahlberg, 1998)

Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety
The number of firearms injuries remains high in the United States, compared with most of the rest of the world. Firearm suicide rates are strongly impacted by the rate of gun ownership. (Kaplan and Geling, 1998) There is a positive correlation between homicide rates and availability of guns in developed nations. (Hemenway and Miller, 2000) The number of firearms in the hands of private citizens continues to grow each year at a rate far exceeding that of the population as a whole. It might even be said that Americans live in a "gun culture" based upon traditions and behaviors well-entrenched in our society. This is reflected in our constitution, whose second amendment guarantees that "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Though the application of this amendment applied to maintenance of a militia, and not private gun ownership, the second amendment has been consistently interpreted to protect private ownership of many types of guns.

Thus, the laws of our Federal government as well as the states do not as yet severely restrict the manufacture, sale, and use of firearms by ordinary citizens. "Gun control" is a sensitive issue that evokes strong emotions in persons both for and against control. Politicians find it difficult to deal with this issue. There is disagreement as to whether a reduction in access to or numbers of firearms will have a measurable effect upon crime. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act passed in 1994 in the U.S. established a nationwide requirement that licensed firearms dealers observe a waiting period and initiate a background check for handgun sales (but the law does not apply to secondary markets). So far, this law has not been associated with overall reductions in homicide rate or suicide rate.(Ludwig and Cook, 2000) Perhaps our attitudes--and our tolerances--are reflected in the high visibility of firearms and firearms-inflicted injuries that are portrayed in the media: newspapers, magazines, books, films, and television. (Price et al, 1992) One thing remains certain, despite laws for or against gun control, a lack of care and concern regarding one's fellow human beings, whether in war or through domestic violence, will continue to promote firearms injuries.

Child safety is an important issue. Firearms injuries are the second leading cause of non-natural death in childhood and adolescence. (CDC, 2004) Accidental shooting deaths are most commonly associated with one or more children playing with a gun they found in the home. (Choi, et al, 1994) The person pulling the trigger is a friend, family member, or the victim. (Harruff, 1992) In the period from 1979 to 2000, accidental firearms deaths involving children declined in the U.S., aided by child access prevention laws and felony prosecution of offenders. (Hepburn et al, 2006) A study of nonnatural deaths in a large American city revealed that half of such deaths in persons from 10 to 19 years of age were due to homicide, and firearms were involved in 88% of them. (Heninger and Hanzlick, 2008)

The table below indicates mode of death for firearms injuries in the ten countries with the most reported deaths from firearms for children less than 15 years of age. (CDC, 1997)

Firearms Deaths by Mode of Death for Children <15 Years of Age
Top 10 Countries - Rate per 100,000

In one survey, 10% of families admitted to having unlocked and loaded firearms within easy reach of children (Patterson and Smith, 1987). Another study showed that two-thirds of accidental firearms injuries occured in the home, and one-third involved children under 15. 45% were self-inflicted, and 16% occurred when children were playing with guns. (Morrow and Hudson, 1986) A study from 1991-2000 showed that twice as many people died from unintentional firearm injuries in states in the U.S. where firearm owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded. (Miller, et al, 2005)

The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders may well be misrepresented. Of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998). Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). In another study, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and suicide in the home (Dahlberg, Ikeda and Kresnow, 2004). Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner. (Rothman, et al) It would appear that, rather than beign used for defense, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families.

Hunting accidents with firearms, despite the large gun ownership in this country and numerous game seasons in most states, remain relatively rare and do not appear to be increasing. (Huiras, et al, 1990) A study in Sweden indicated a rate of 0.074/100,000 and that, when hunting big game, most accidents resulted from a mistaken target. When hunting small game, accidents occurred most frequently as a result of mishandling the gun. Hunting accidents did not increase with increasing gun ownership or numbers of hunters. (Ornehult and Eriksson, 1987)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html


Nowwhere does it state responsable gun owners are as much a danger as the criminal with a gun.

franshade's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:20 PM


well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


I am sorry but I did not insult you and do not appreciate you insulting my by referring that my friends are illegal aliens. You have a right to your opinion as do I.

Maybe next time you will think before you speak.


Patti, sorry his ire is aimed at me - I am the bleeding heart he speaks of. I'm sorry. flowerforyou

Dragoness's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:20 PM
Statistics: Gun Violence in Our Communities

School Safety
Less than 1% of all homicides among school-aged children (5-19 years of age) occur in or around school grounds or on the way to and from school. (Centers for Disease Control, 1997)

Children and Gun Violence
In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

America and Gun Violence
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

Guns in the Wrong Hands
Faulty records enable terrorists, illegal aliens and criminals to purchase guns. Over a two and a half-year period, at least 9,976 convicted felons and other illegal buyers in 46 states obtained guns because of inadequate records. (Broken Records, Americans for Gun Safety Foundation)

School Safety

Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)
In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998)
The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)

Children and Gun Violence

America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)
In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
America and Gun Violence

Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence)
The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)
American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)
Guns in the Wrong Hands

Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here.
Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.
Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety)
According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com.
The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one.
In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000)
According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001).

Updated: June 17, 2005

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

no photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:21 PM

oh more bleeding hearts. we have to have guns since must of you want illegal aliens to invade our country.


That makes no sense.

no photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:21 PM

well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


You do realize that the US has no official language, right?

plk1966's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:23 PM



well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


I am sorry but I did not insult you and do not appreciate you insulting my by referring that my friends are illegal aliens. You have a right to your opinion as do I.

Maybe next time you will think before you speak.


Patti, sorry his ire is aimed at me - I am the bleeding heart he speaks of. I'm sorry. flowerforyou


even if he were speaking to you and not me....the statement he made was insulting and should not be tolerated

supermike48's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:23 PM
to the person who said i insulted her. if your friends are illegal that don't belong here. now back on topic. as Americans, we have a right to protect our self. so if you are saying that guns are no good. tell that to the soldier that died for your freedom of speech.

luckyguy2008's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:23 PM

The fact that the human feels a need to carry a weapon for power is sick in and of itself. Pissed off legal gun owners brandish and use their weapons in illegal displays of power all the time.

We do not need more guns in public we need less. No legal gun owner saves people in times of crisis as has been implied they would all along. Legal gun owners can be just as dangerous to the public as the illegal gun owner can be. There is no difference when they are shooting and killing innocent people.





Not exactly true, I have personally kept a young woman from being raped thanks to the fact I carry a weapon at all times. Broad statements like that show how uninformed you really are!

franshade's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:27 PM




well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.


I am sorry but I did not insult you and do not appreciate you insulting my by referring that my friends are illegal aliens. You have a right to your opinion as do I.

Maybe next time you will think before you speak.


Patti, sorry his ire is aimed at me - I am the bleeding heart he speaks of. I'm sorry. flowerforyou


even if he were speaking to you and not me....the statement he made was insulting and should not be tolerated


I take things from where they come from :wink:

supermike48's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:34 PM
the truth hurts dont it.

no photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:45 PM
Edited by Unknow on Tue 07/21/09 12:47 PM

the truth hurts dont it.
8 years in Leavenworth and you are allowed to carry a gun???? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Dam I feel safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dragoness's photo
Tue 07/21/09 12:51 PM
Gun owners more often kill themselves than others
In the high court's ruling on gun ownership, the dissenting opinion cited suicides as a reason to uphold a firearms ban.
By Mike Stobbe
The Associated Press
Posted: 07/01/2008 12:30:00 AM MDT
Updated: 07/01/2008 01:53:51 AM MDT


ATLANTA — The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for about 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year. Gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the past 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 2.6 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to five times as likely to have a gun present as households that did not experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.

D.C.'s suicides dropped

One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will kill themselves using other means.

More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for intentional drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.

Dissenting opinion

The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.

"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.

Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health findings on guns.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.

Public-health experts have said that the telephone survey methodology Kleck used likely resulted in an overestimate.

More research urged

Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the past decade in public-health research into gun violence.

The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the mid-1990s.

But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.

Vernick said that the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the handgun ban is lifted.

Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and most of that is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related policy analysis.


http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9747969


They are not mentally stable if they off themselves, right? But legal to have a gun???

misswright's photo
Tue 07/21/09 01:44 PM
drinker As a single female that loves to travel, I for one hope the law passes. I would LOVE to drive across the country LEGALLY with a .357. It tends to even the odds God forbid I'm faced with that unforeseen situation. Stranded on a deserted road with a flat tire late at night unprotected, weird guy stops to "help". Not a good feeling....if carrying you show him your friend and he's the one not feeling so well anymore. Had this exact situation happen to me on the way back from Vegas. Guns protect us, and responsible gun ownership and education is of the utmost importance in this debate.

The second amendment is to not a license to kill, to go off half cocked firing away at random in a show of might like some of you seem to think. We're not crazy because we support the right to bear arms! It's not about the suicides rates, violence statistics,etc...it's about protecting ourselves as a free people from the government ever being able to abolish our rights. If our elected representatives get out of control and the few start enacting laws that go against the majority, how are we to stop them if only they have weapons to use in enforcing their new repulsive laws? It's not about the bar fight or whether guns are kept locked in the home. It's the second amendment for a reason...to protect the first amendment rights. If you are willing to give up the right to bear arms, you are willing to be at the mercy of another's will. That for me doesn't work when so many people in this country care so little for anything but their own wants. By that I mean both politicians and blatant criminals.

I have the right to protect myself and my family and I look forward to being able to do so nationwide!drinker Kinda hard to put the shotgun in the glove box or your purse so don't say just take away the pistols either! That's the whole point of the conceal law, so the poor souls who are so freaked out and abhorred by guns don't see them. Oh the horror to know us crazy gun people are walking our streets. :banana: noway laugh

Maybe we should be more concerned about WHY millions of people are choosing suicide instead of arguing about what means they use to commit it with. Just a thought. Okay, maybe a few thoughts.flowerforyou

no photo
Tue 07/21/09 01:49 PM
guns don't kill people......


bullets do....

AdventureBegins's photo
Tue 07/21/09 01:52 PM

well since i,m a legal alien . not like your friends. you people build the wall. cause if it comes to it. i can go back to Russia. where we don't have bleeding hearts. tell us we need to learn Spanish. not my job to learn Spanish. is there job to speak English.

You wouldn't survive in russia.

First time you opened your mouth... Firing squad. Or do they still control Siberia.

Got a warm jacket comrade?bigsmile

supermike48's photo
Tue 07/21/09 03:01 PM
hold on have you every been to Russia. i have been there alot. what pissed me off people talk about Russia. but never been there. amazing.