Burnham said that the estimate of Iraq's pre-invasion death rate -- 5.5
deaths per 1,000 people -- found in both of the Hopkins surveys was
roughly the same estimate used by the CIA and the U.S. Census Bureau. He
said he believes that attests to the accuracy of his team's results.

The survey cost about $50,000 and was paid for by Massachusetts
Institute of Technology's Center for International Studies.

when you read it you will see that they required proof by official death
certificates and did not rely on peoples words.

"We're very confident with the results," said Gilbert Burnham, a Johns
Hopkins physician and epidemiologist.

A Defense Department spokesman did not comment directly on the estimate.

imagine That!!!!!!

around the globe. in the states, in africa, everywhere. farmers are
being paid off to not grow crops to keep prices up. tons of food is
being dumped into the sea to keep prices up. businesses are outsourcing,
to keep costs of production down and profits up, makes sense. you gotta
compete, right? at whose expense though? read up on nafta. theoretically
speaking, it is good though once executed, not so much.

pharmaceutical companies don't think of the PERSONS who these medicines
will be dispensed to, they just think of the money to be made. still,
the medicines are being produced in the states, mexico, canada, europe,
the list goes on.

So what about the bodies in the pits?

Did they have Death certificates?

"The Department of Defense always regrets the loss of any innocent life
in Iraq or anywhere else," said Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros. "The
coalition takes enormous precautions to prevent civilian deaths and
injuries."

He added that "it would be difficult for the U.S. to precisely determine
the number of civilian deaths in Iraq as a result of insurgent activity.
The Iraqi Ministry of Health would be in a better position, with all of
its records, to provide more accurate information on deaths in Iraq."

Sounds like the offical government policy of keeping us uninformed. Dont
it??

nope read the link fanta, two things lead me away from thinking it is
accurate.

first it was conducted by iraqi's, dont believe them, for the most part
they exaggerate everything, ie. guy had a temp of 102 told me he was
dying because of it. the iraqi government and the doctors they have
consistantly give greater numbers of hurt and dead after engagements
with the US, ie. we shot a bad dude, then within two hours al the
speakers in the mosque are saying how we slaughtered three innocent
families.

these surveys in my opinion need to be taken with an open mind.

secondly it was overseen by a doc at johns hopkins- overseen being the
key word, from johns hopkins, he can over see the info given him, but
not how it was gathered, which sounds easier than it really is. what
their going to just walk down a random street and pop into a house and
say, so how many people do you think have died?

whatever. plus the survey is from 2006. but its the thought that
counts, more than the facts.

mind you this was done in 2004 and by all accounts has increased
significantly since then......


Annual deaths during Saddam rule: between 25,000 to 50,000

Annual deaths during U.S. Occupation: about 66,000

Doc with all due respect the study was done by US and Iraqi doctors.
The US government will not comment.........

One might ask how it is possible to claim that the deaths of some 4,500
civilians at the hands of paramilitaries demonstrates "utter contempt
for innocent life" when the blood of some 14,000 innocents staining our
own hands is considered noble and necessary. Tony Blair provided the
following answer on 20th November, standing alongside George W Bush in
London:

"This terrorism is the 21st century threat. It is a war that strikes at
the heart of all that we hold dear, and there is only one response that
is possible or rational: to meet their will to inflict terror with a
greater will to defeat it; to confront their philosophy of hate with our
own of tolerance and freedom; and to challenge their desire to frighten
us, divide us, unnerve us with an unshakeable unity of purpose; to stand
side by side with the United States of America and with our other allies
in the world, to rid our world of this evil once and for all."

The claim that a strategy which produces 14,000 civilian deaths is the
expression of a "philosophy of tolerance and freedom" is a claim which
we find incomprehensible. Our incomprehension is shared, we believe, by
the majority of the world's people.

Yes Jess, I believe the bodies found in the pits have been counted.
Probably some of the US's only official count!!

Officially..The war mongers have won..

Nice to have met all the friendly folks here, but my stomach is turning,
and I don't want to offend anyone else..

Sorry Lee..

Hey supersam! Wow, you are right on! it'll be fun living in caves. Maybe
we can get rid of the wheel? It's what started this whole capitalism
thingy anyway, right? Perhaps if you educated yourself on the
differences you would find that your solution will solve nothing, in
fact, it would throw civilization into anarchy. Or is that on your punch
list as well?

Fanta, check your math, bud. Iraq census in Jul. 06 put the population
at 26,783,383. Guys, we can argue about statistics til the cows come
home and what will it accomplish? I don't know anyone that likes war. As
Jess stated, when someone needs our help, should we turn a blind eye?
Why spend vast amounts of potentally productive time bickering over
minutia? It's not as simple as "getting the hell outta there". I'm not
going to rehash why that is so. If you like you can go through the
posts, spending a little of your energy trying to widen your view.I keep
reading the same old crappy tug of war and both sides have their end of
the rope tied to a tree.

"A few years and you can be the proud grandmother of a soldier fighting
the wrong war for an ungrateful people!!!"

ouch that hurt....I won't wish that on you Fanta.

whoa!

hey fix the damn problems, dont be saying hurtful spiteful shlt

Bibby, your view on Iraq...i actually agree with you on something.,
there's hope for you. lol

((((((((((((armydoc))))))))))))))))))

yeah those words hurt

Only the blind can stare the facts straight on and still believe in
fallacies.
Unfortunately no one has won bibby and those on here that support the
war are in the minority, not only of Americans, but also the minority of
the World population. A number that grows smaller and smaller as more
and more truths are revealed.

Please explain how the total population of Iraq has any bearing on the
professionally collected statistics that I gave Zap. It would be
interesting to hear how you think that that number has anything to do
with the others, maybe Im missing something here, but I dont think so.
You guys can run around all day denying the truth, and calling
legitimate sources and facts all day, but it will still not make them go
away. You can gather in your little cliche and think you have accomplish
some grand scheme of finding truth, but all you have really accomplished
is to continue to fool yourselves and nobody else, while never offering
anything in the way of actual facts other than your feelings of
superiority and great store of experience. As devinci would say please
give me a brick to beat over my head, for it would be easier than to get
some people to look past the end of their nose.

Miltonroses to feign some great insult when you start a thread in a
public forum containing hypocrisies and political propaganda and receive
a reply that does not suit you agenda does not make me feel guilty of
anything. Everyone here is not required to feel as you do and you should
not expect it or wear your heart on your sleeve. Sorry but this country
is not run by a dictator and I am not refined to believe as you do.