I have not taken any philosophy courses, but it is my understanding that metaphysics is a branch of philosophy. I do like to read about metaphysical thought, so I do wish they would make a place for it if this isn't the right forum.

You are absolutely correct. Metaphysics is indeed a valid philosophy. Anyone who claims it isn't is living in the wrong century. They need to go back to the days of Newton and Spinoza when everything was believed to be deterministic and carved in stone.

That's not how modern philosophers think today.

Metaphysics is quite welcome as a philosophical topic in this 21st Century.

If you have anything in particular you'd like to discuss just start a thread on it and pose a question. I'm sure the thread will take off even if you just sit back and watch it unfold after that.

We clearly have a completely different understanding of what a disgrace is.

I find it a disgrace to ask for rules that would exclude some from posting in a forum that is designed for everyone, and where one of the basic rules states that you can't post something for a certain group exclusively.

You want Philosophy exclusively?

There are surely many sites on the web that have that.

Wow...

Define disgrace.

It might not have been bandied about this way in an 'acceptable' philosphy discussion.

But to each his own. Each of us has a 'philosphy' of their own.

(disclaimer for the spelling police - any misspelling do not refelect on the intille-gance of the poster... rather is a dumb keyboard)

Groundless... My thoughts... Nope thier Electric (well in my mind)
they are...

Thoughts, Have meaning, have depth, have holes in them
Kinda like Electricity,, has a starting point, ground
wiring and so on, flip the switch and whaaalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
you have connection....

My brain is my power surge,,, thoughts flow in and out,, some
cast away to the side for further ponder,, yet they all
hold some sort of depth,,,

Thoughts are unique,, some not planned,, some not planned well
enough,,, Groundless,,, Nopeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

After reading through some of this, I will say again. Groundless is subjective to the person perceiving the information. To ask someone what are the grounds for that thought or saying is to verify from them where they get their information and for you, with your personal perceptions, to vilify it in your mind. If they pull their information from their own brain with no verification outside, which is almost impossible, that is still grounds for their thought or belief or whatever. So therefore not groundless.

It may be groundless to me but that doesn't make it groundless to everyone.

Heyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Beautiful,, Just thought I ponder on by and leave me thoughts for ya,,,

Truly.

I personally feel that it’s a total disgrace for a person to be making groundless rants about an entire forum when he hasn’t even been able to present logical constructs that holds water himself, nor has he been able to communicate them to anyone with any clarity since he claims that everyone misunderstands him. Just sounds to me like someone who is trying to blame the whole world for his own personal failings in communication and logic.

We should all just chalk this up to some kind of personal frustration breakdown and just send him Get Well cards and hope he feels better soon.

Sweet, Di!

Okay, I just skimmed the thread begining to end, and - tangential arguments aside - I don't remember the last time I've seen so many people agree on something in the philosophy section!



By the way, SharkMeat - welcome to Mingle2! And welcome to the philosophy section. Despite the criticism leveled at your metaphorical use of math, many of us are definitely interested in hearing your thoughts.



Well said!

If you said that I do not like dogs, without having access to personal knowledge of me, then that would be groundless, and THAT is the kind of thing that goes on all the time and IS DISGRACEFUL.

This straw man just gets beat on over and over and over again.

This thread is a ****ing disgrace.

I think people should try to understand before going to so much trouble to feel offended.

If I cared enough to go back I could quote these personal ad hominum attacks on creative, there are pages of them in this forum.


So again if I claim that I smell funny today that is grounded becuase I certainly can tell if that is so . . . . If you said I smell funny today and had no chance to smell me, that would be groundless.

Just as if you told me what I meant when I posted something. Just as when someone takes a post and then makes a sweeping character conclusion about you based on that post.

No instead of people taking the time to understand creative they all just jump on the hurt feelings band wagon and go crazy ranting about nothing is groundless which independent of context SURE, but what is ever independent of context in a conversation?

Then why would we even have the word groundless huh???? If nothing could be groundless regardless of context then how is that word is ever applicable? It most certainly has applications . . . the law certainly thinks so and just try to make any ole claim in a court of law . . .

Honestly anyone who cannot come up with a groundless statement given a specific context is not someone worth the time to talk with becuase they belong in the zoo.

Honestly I do not believe ANYONE in this thread really believes that, nor would be stumped if asked on the condition of loosing there life to come up with one . . .

This thread ought to end right here unless its filled here after with apologetic responses from people who have misunderstood creative.

Soooooo, thoughts are not groundless seems to be the overall consensus!

If you thought that I was 7'0 tall that would be groundless.


I wonder how many examples I have to give to make people realize this has a specific connotation, and to pretend that nothing can ever be groundless is itself groundless.


YES THOUGHTS CAN BE GROUNDLESS. Independent of any context NO they are all grounded in at the very least your imagination, but when applied to things THEY CAN BE GROUNDLESS.

Shesh I am amazed.

I am starting to think that I am an invisible, intangible, poo flinging pink flying monkey.

That's your call.

I haven't been offended at all. At any point in time.

All I've been doing is pointing out Michael's absurdities.

Anything he got from me was well-deserved including his Get Well Card, which was in response to his comment that "This forum is a disgrace to philosophical thought"

That's an insult to everyone on these forums. How far is he going to take this before he starts to take responsibilty for the failure of his own conversations?

No emotion required. The man is just being totally irresponsible by trying to blame others for his own failings as far as I'm concerned.

He shouldn't be going around telling people how they can think or not think.

You keep giving everyone examples of 'ungrounded claims' how about Michael's ungrounded statement to me?

"It's impossible to think that way, you are only kidding yourself if you think that way".

That was in RESPONSE to me when I was explaining my GROUNDS for holding a particular view. And I was even using a quote by Richard Feynman at the time!!!

If he insulted me, then he also insulted Richard Feynman. I think I'm in good company.

The man appears to me to just being having some sort of nervous breakdown. I hope it isn't serious. But running around insulting the entire forum by saying "This forum is a disgrace to philosophical thought" is truly not helping his cause (whatever his cause might be).

and this is a philosophical discussion of ???... That example is not in the context of a discussion about philosophy, IMO.

and your other examples:

you are 7 feet tall...
you smell funny...

none of those things are a philosophical discussion...nor the topic of one.

I thought I understood this thread and the other thread about this, was clearly about the desire of someone who wanted people to "ground" their philosophical ideas with some sort of tangible proof...something to back them up...







and this...it sounds like a contradiction to what you just said...

to my very elementary understanding at least.

I must be tired...

They are called impressions Jeremy. Everyone makes an impression.

On a forum, we cannot glean much from the way a person looks or smells or from his body language. Our impression comes from words.

Words, sentences, statements, remarks etc. all have a certain flavor. If you are the least bit intuitive you can glean a lot from that. Impressions also originate with the perceiver and his or her personal experience in dealing with and talking to many different kinds people.

When a person remarks about another person, that other person may take it personal but all he is really reading is the scope of impression he has made on some unknown other person via his words and responses. This is information about how he is or is not communicating his ideas. If the person is 'wrong' in his impression of him, it is not that person's fault entirely. The fault lies in the lack of communication.

A well read person of high vocabulary should not expect to speak in his high toned manner and be understood by everyone. Intellectuals tend to over think minute details leaving his personal feelings on the side, while most generally people speak with their personal experience, beliefs and feelings.

We are not all walking encyclopedia's or college graduates. We are regular people. That does not mean that we are 'stupid' and we don't appreciate being made to feel 'stupid' or ignorant just because we have not taken up the same studies as you have.

Every person has valid ideas and opinions and experience. To be talked down to is rude and shows lack of real class. It might make some people feel smarter than the average Joe, but if Creative or You, Jeremy, feel you are among the ignorant and unlearned, then why are you here? What can you possibly learn from any of us in your way of thinking?

The 'feeling' I get from your attitudes are that you are intellectual snobs. I respect your knowledge and input to a high degree, but in speaking with others, you probably should not expect everyone to speak your language in the way you want them to, you will be disappointed.

A person with class knows how to talk to anyone and make them feel good about them self.

You are clearly not reading my examples and if you are going to use my name please spell it right.


Jeremy.

Billy what you are saying is that if it is not the truth, by your truth, then it is groundless?

Not accurate assessment at all.

Abstract thoughts and work are not groundless. They may be unconvenional, they may be wild and outside the box, they may even appear to have no bearing (ground) but they are not groundless.

What is groundless to one is not groundless to another making is ungroudless...lol

So if someone called you a whore and you clearly where not would that be grounded, or groundless?