I have just finished(though I question whether or not it had even really begun) quite a long conversation with someone involving what it takes to change one's core belief system, or even one intergal 'piece'. This notion has been interwoven into many threads in this forum, perhaps even most.

For you, the reader, what does it take to change a prior belief?

If the answer is proof, please explain what that would require?

To change core beliefs it takes a leap of faith and an interest in seeing the other viewpoints right and wrong.

The problem I see is so many people are so fixated on their belief in what is right that they become entrenched in their ideology and dogma. They are comfortable in what others believe. As long as the herd accepts it they have nothing to fear.


Baa baa baa!

I would change my beliefs for enough cash

People are so brain washed into a particular set of beliefs.

Why try to change anyone?

They won't change mine.

Andy wrote...



Yes, I have seen this as well, especially in structured religion.

What do you mean by a leap of 'faith'?

I am talking about changing one's own personal belief system, not really about changing another's.

What kind of experience would it take, say, for you to no longer believe that you were a human being. I know that is far-fetched, but it focuses on a more drastic type of change.

I am not willing to change my belief for anyone so it's best that I only have a relationship with someone that has similar beliefs. I actually went through this not too long ago. He was a Jehovah Witness and I'm Baptist. I don't care for that *ehem* religion and knew I would never change just as he would not. So friends we remained but nothing more.

Yeah! Me too!

Right! I mean for yourself. Could you imagine a scenario in which you would have to change your beliefs? I do not mean just religious ones. Any of one's beliefs, especially the core ones.

Your name.

What constitutes right and wrong.

Stuff like that!

Think of Religion as a small stone island surrounded by a sea of the unknown...

There are other islands out there to explore but the water looks cold and inhospitable. You also suspect there are dangerous things in the water.

To jump into this water takes a leap of faith to do so because it is facing a number of fears and also questions that may and will go unanswered.

Granted this is all metaphor but it fits.

You have to have faith in yourself and that challenges most religion.

That is the essence of a leap of faith...

Andy wrote...



Good analogy! What if we consider all belief, not just religion. All we think that we know is but belief, in some form or another, is it not?

Does it first require inadequacy in some form? I mean, if one is completely happy, or at least thinks that they are, would there be reason to change?

I could not and would not change anything about myself for anyone but myself. If someone does not like/love me for who I am now then they will surely not once they have molded me into being that which I am not.

I could not agree more. That makes perfect sense to me.

What about yourself though? Has there ever been a time when something happened in your life where it made you think twice about things which you previously believed?

I think it is only human to think twice about something that we believe(d) due to circumstances whether they be controlled or not. I think the thing I have most often done this with has been love/relationships. I've been in more bad than good and they tend to make you think twice about things!

I wouldn't change my belief for anyone either. I would say it depends on what someone can go through to change there belief. I know I would only date someone of the same belief as me I'm a christian cause if it's mixed with another kind of belief it's like 2 opposites and might not work out. I'm not trying to say anything about anyone else's beliefs.

I went to Hawaii...watched the lava explode in the ocean.

Now I believe in Pele. I even picked her up hitch hiking.

I do agree that self exploration of belief/acceptance requires an impetus. Some event, or data found that causes a moment of doubt.


In your example of finding out some datum of evidence that you are not human I would want to see DNA evidence, then I would need examples in my own life where my non human physiology made a particular event (injury ect) go slightly differently. If only the DNA evidence, then I would need to validate how different, becuase it would go against my own common knowledge of myself and all the various characteristics that define humanness that I see in myself every day, I would probably do this anyway, but if there where particular life events that where unexplained prior and fit with this new knowledge it would make it easier to accept.


General rant on belief:

It seems to me that any belief held to despite contrary or lacking evidence shows something about the character of the person, or lack there of.

If evidence then investigation. That is my creed. Many people see evidence and becuase it is unsettling to even think they could be wrong, they dismiss it out of hand.

In many ways that is why I do not setup beliefs par say, they are rigid things that become part of your personal image of yourself. I use acceptance, I accept something to be true based on the breadth of evidence, and am willing to accept that contrary evidence can arise.

I was reading once in a Psychology class that natural human development works like this

as a young man/woman you adopt the religion of your parents

at some point you reject that religion

for however brief a time you reject all religion

then you develop your own belief system

and teach it to your kids

so our belief systems are prolly changing and evolving all the time

Then there is the atheist household.

As a young man/woman you adopt your parents non belief, and make fun of the religions they don't like.

At some point you find someone you find it difficult to make too much fun of in there face, and give up slamming that religion for while.

Then you really read about all of the religions out there and find one of your own to make fun of.

Then you teach that to your kids how to go door to door questioning peoples knowledge of there own holy books.

Fun stuff!

I would say - study, study, and more study. Educate yourself and see the history of each belief system. Eventually the idealogies you cherish will make you as an individual feel good.

Now a certain belief system that one enjoys may change over time due to more information through either experience or education.

I think there is a message to be heard that many have not realized.

The world and its diversity is meant for us to explore and learn from.

The world is a beautiful place full of different continents and cultures. Each with its own reasons and celeberation of life. We as a people should learn from them and enjoy the benefits it offers. Don't be stuck in your own paradox of what you grew up with, but explore the many different idealogies life can offer. It will give you as a person the opportunity to be more flexible allowing understanding, compassion, anticipation, and love as a whole.

With that being said I may have not answered the question directly, but it does leave open thoughts of perhaps how we as a people can be to ensure more peace and love in this world.

I would say if you as a human no different then the next human who may have different idealogies that are not common in your belief system should research deeper in understanding why such a belief system came to be in the first place. With that being said also experience the notion of such a life even if it is a brief moment!

Have you done a rain dance with native indians, or a celeberation dance of a newborn with an African tribe, or maybe enjoyed the long walk on the Chinese wall feeling and sensing how much hard work was put into it and its history, or enjoyed the Japanese culture looking at the imperial sword understanding its significance to the country, or visited a castle in Europe, or seen displays of famous naturlists and civil rights leaders, or sat at a classical concert listening to music that the artistrocrats enjoyed in the 1600s, or had the chance to see wildlife studying the reasons why raccoons wash their hands before eating, or why a certain type of monkey beats a log on a tree to attract a female, or had various foods and drinks and learned languages.

This is life and a belief system that everyone should try to embrace and if the possibility isn't there then it is your obligation to teach and show that in the end







we are not too different afterall.