That has nothing to do with the question at hand. Gravity exists with or without humans, in this universe, operating under these laws of physics. Gravity is not contingent on any sort of sentient awareness or consciousness.

We could use another example, say, the fusion of hydrogen into helium inside a star. This happens in many stars, and it makes no difference if there are people near the star or not. The process occurs.



Psychics? Who said anything about psychics?

The separation I'm referring to is simply that gravity, nuclear fusion, etc., are processes that occur independently from human awareness or understanding. "Karma" is a mythological/hypothetical "balance" based on nothing other than wishful thinking and cherry-picked anecdotal evidence.

We have scientific evidence of gravity -- go jump out a window and see what happens.

"Karma" is nothing more than "My Uncle Ted stole a donut when he was a kid, and the next day a dog bit him." Trying to build a cause-and-effect scenario out of nothing, in order to create a worldview where things "even out."

Science vs. superstition -- what can be more differentiated than that?

Agree with this. Sometimes you never see it personally. But, it happens.

It is not really a force outside of ourselves, in my view, it is actually the negative energy we put out returning to us.

I think of Karma as a way of showing the universe is balanced. You get what you give.

oooo yea I believe....u put somethin out there it comes back 3 fold

I completely agree from the supernatural perspective.

However I think the idea of Karma is a facet of human society and that when a group of individuals all share the same zeitgeist based value system then Karma can become a group fulfilling prophecy.

The group is the moderator of justice, and our own awareness of right and wrong is what selects an event as Karmic.

Karma exists just only in the minds of the people who believe in Karma. Justice that seems like Karma is either a coincidence, a self, or group fulfilled prophecy.

Its an issue of psychology. Not physics.

Exactly. It's the "It exists because I believe it exists" scenario -- the same sort of thing that basically makes religion possible.

If a million people get together and unanimously agree that the sun is a giant blue frog in the sky, they can convince themselves of it! The belief need not impinge on the reality in the least.

Geesh, no where in my post did I claim that Karma was "a law of physics" but was "a law" and compared to a law of physics in the fact that it just is............but whatever. I also do not use such big words, nor do I have a degree in physics to understand the whole thing.........

I do know, from observation, that the universe does indeed balance itself out. I am not using scientific explanations.

Good vs bad, means very little to me..... More like, if you harm others you harm yourself, that kind of thing.......... You hate others, you hate yourself kinda thing............. So it is probably a Psychological thing..........but thoughts and feelings are no less than rocks and dirt, imo....and may even be more "real".

I wouldn't even call it "karma" except that it is what most people call it, and I wouldn't say it is a force unto itself......so maybe my example was not a good one...........either way.........

I do not believe that what people label as "bad" defines what is truly bad, as I personally believe they are simply what we label them to be.........However, I do believe in energy, and that life is a cycle.........so maybe I don't make sense to you, or anyone else, but it makes sense to me........

Besides, I could care less if anyone believes as I do.

it is the power of positive thinking
goodness is the fuel which nurtures itself
and unkindness is the path to oblivion

Yes. Positive thinking and laws of attraction are real. It's not in the sense that we always get what we deserve. We all think we deserve more than we get

Not always.

That is true, and the reason reincarnation was a great idea. If we don't see balance in our life times then we can pretend balance will transcend death.


Very poignant observation!


Right I think the mention of physics was only t establish the fact that he (lex) did not believe the concept of Karma to be supernatural in any sense. I tend to agree, and it seems you do as well.

Observations can lead to scientific explanations, id be interested in hearing about some of these observations.


Right, id agree, moral relativism. Right on that maps back to social observation.

Then it seems we agree.

Yes it is indeed relative isn't it?

Believe in statements usually imply a set of beliefs, where as Believe that statements represent single beliefs.

So what exactly do you mean you believe in energy?

I believe that energy is the ability to do work.

Good! but you do care if what you believe is true?

From your earlier post:



When you raised the comparison to gravity (ie., saying it's the "same as gravity"), I felt it necessary to point out the obvious discrepancy involved with this. You never flatly stated that "karma is a law of physics," but the comparison seems, at the very least, to point in a similar direction.



Except that the whole basis of this particular "reality" is entirely contingent on human perception and interpretation. If you acknowledge the possibility that human perception may be fallible, then the "reality" ceases to be anything more than a convenient crutch.

Ooh, those are lots of questions to answer.........lol. Maybe we could just converse in email.

Sorry, that is why I said it may have been a bad example in my last post........

I'm not sure what you mean by your last paragraph, it could just be that my mind is a bit sluggish today........

Well, the point is that something like gravity, from what we've been able to determine, is compltetly consistent, measurable, predictable -- there are no "gray areas." No one ever posts "Do You Believe In Gravity?" It's more or less a given.

Karma, on the other hand, is something people try to construct on top of reality -- it has no demonstrable basis, and "exists" solely in the minds of some, as a means for people to impose some sort of nebulous "balance" on life as a whole.

And, again, you get into the issue of who/what establishes the "balance." If you kill a person, that's bad karma. What if you kill a bird? Does that count just as much? Are there different levels of value attributed to different forms of life? Is there a ratio? Three birds = one human? Is the karmic "payout" the same as the input? -- an eye for an eye, live by the sword, die by the sword, that sort of thing?

And what if your action, your bad-karma-inducing action against another person, is really just THEIR bad karma from a previous incident coming back onto them? Now, is it your fault for what you did, or are you just acting as a karmic "agent," a thematic middleman, keeping the balance flowing? Should you get a free pass because you're really doing nothing more than perpetuating the established system?

I'd like to see someone argue that in court.

I see karma in the same way I see the idea of an afterlife -- there's no validity to it, but it makes people feel better when the circumstances in the here and now become intolerable. (The bad people will "get theirs," and I'll be ultimately rewarded because I've been such a good person all my life. Even though I'll have to wait until after I'm dead.)

I'll take reality over a comforting delusion any day.

karma is translated as action. it works because if your actions are dark and evil, then you live in a world of dark, evil places, and people. more chance of bad things happening to you. if you live in the world of light, and compassion, chances are you will be around people who are like minded. bad things happed to good people, but how you react to a given situation will affect how you treat people, and how they treat you.

reap what you sow.