I have been following this thread since it began. There are active participants that I purposefully read due to the fact of being repeatedly exposed to a new perspective on things.

Having not read about Jacque Fresco nor The Venus Project, I am hesitant in discussing any particular details, yet the notion itself seems to go against the history of human civilization. I find nogames to be pointing this out rather obscurely, yet quite effectively. However, this patterning of human history does not necessarily indicate a predetermined future failure.

Would I be correct it stating that the current focus of this discussion is in regard to what exactly is going to replace the role that money has in society? Furthermore, has the entirety of that role been effectively established and clearly demonstrated? It seems that that is still in process. I am finding the conversation to be rather intriguing. I hope that it continues in the manner that is being currently demonstrated.

Kudos!!!

The Georgia guidestones are a hoax

Redykeulous,

Are you aware of social permissiveness of capitalism? What this means is that the capitalist system allows an enclave of socialists to exists within itself.

To be clear, I must note, that no socialist system ever allowed an enclave of capitalists to exists freely within itself.

As I have said above, "Any evil system is weak for it's alternatives".

We can see this on a personal level. We know that we can not keep a loved one without giving him/her what they seek. We can either be the best there is as far as they are concerned, and allow them to make sure of it by allowing them to look at any other alternative. Or, if we are not willing to grow up to their demands, we can lock them up in our house, and make sure they never know that their life could be better with someone else.

The first way is the good way, and it is not afraid of competition, and the second way is the way of evil, and its weakness is in the existing alternatives.

An evil husband will dress his wife head to toe and cover her face, deny her any contact with men outside of family, so that she can never know any good alternative. He doesn't want her to know how little does she get, in exchange for what she brings to the table.

An evil wife will lock her husband to a home and garden, vote to outlaw bordellos and strip clubs, imprison any female that provides companionship, and in general, give him hell for any look at the opposing sex. She does it to eliminate any possibility of her husband ever finding out how little he actually gets for what he brings to the family.

The same can be observed on a nation-state scale.

Socialism, is a weak system. It does not allow any group of people to freely organize into a capitalistic sub-society and to use honest money and a concept of property amongst themselves. If it allowed such to happen, then others will see it as a better alternative and one by one, join the capitalists by attaching to the enclave and the whole socialist state will turn inside-out and become capitalistic overnight. For this reason, it is not allowed. For this reason, there are not only tightly shut physical borders, but even the informational one being just as tightly shut.

Capitalism,... well, let us judge for ourselves, instead of me telling you.

Go ahead and organize in socialist society with anyone you want. See if anyone will prevent you from doing so. You will find that you are allowed to live and fully function as a socialist sub-society, whether you use your own issue fake notes, or no money at all. There is no "fight" to speak of. You, and Soul, and any others, can freely and respectably go away tomorrow, secure some land and have a commune, a Venus project if you wish, or even a full blown USSR. As long as you not threaten anyone outside of your society with a physical force, you'll be fine. You'll be able to freely allocate your resources, and love each as a brother every day and night. You can all have all you need, or want, or any other way you see fit.

Capitalism knows that the result of your experiment, will invariably be as follows: You will all break apart in distrust to each other.

Many will attempt to explain it by degrading your intelligence or character. I, will only say that you had a small problem of trust grown into a large dilemma, because you have chosen to account for social activity by units not suitable to convey an acceptable degree of trust.

Because of this knowledge, capitalism is not afraid to allow you to do the experiment. Like a good wife or a good husband, it already does everything it can for you, and if you're not satisfied, then it will be happy to see you satisfied by an alternative you have found elsewhere, anyway.












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Now, allow me to distort my own explanation here. I am going to introduce some complications, in what I think is a simply and clearly laid out explanation above.

If you organize into a socialist sub-society withing a capitalist society, you will not be allowed to violate the rights that this capitalist society guarantees to it's members.

Personally, I disagree with this limitation. This is a weakness, starting to show up as we gradually regress towards more socialist society. In a complete capitalist, and free society, you would be allowed to kill anyone of your members, provided that you had their clear understanding and consent prior to them becoming a member of you socialist club.

So, a full blown freedom based capitalist society will allow you to have a complete evil kingdom within (even to kill them), knowing that it just won't last, but if it would, then this is what the people desire.

Because of this limitation (the bill of right), the Venus project, and others, must necessarily seek to establish either an independent nation, or seek a full globe conversion, before their project will begin.

In other words, I am trying to convey to you, that they do intend to kill you. If not, then as you can see, there would be no need for any independence or world-wide "solidarity". Everything they want to build while they keep you alive and free, they can already build right within the existing USA. This is the only explanation why they can not allow to be guided by the bill of rights at the top most level.

Interestingly enough, I find myself following you nogames.

However, is the representation accurate in and of itself? I mean, is this Venus Project comparable to what we have known and further labeled as socialist?

An inherent flaw has been recognized...

Capitalism and socialism are not independent agents/entities...

Those terms represent systems, which in and of themselves do not know anything. I find that if we continue to anthropomorphize these concepts then the focus is deflected away from the state of mind of the individuals participating in these systems. That is what determines the outcome, does it not?



Where is Di?