But hey,

Will all the women dress in skin tight vinyl like in Star Trek?

Having no government was a specific flaw I didn't even address. Thanks, Fanta!

I just thought that if I do, the supporters of this will turn and say, that something will serve the organizing, standardizing, and public order functions, so I have skipped it.

The whores will finally be free, doing what they love to do anyway.

Recommended reading:
Utopia by Sir Thomas More
1984 by George Orwell
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx

The Great Khan will rule over you, forget everything and embrace the great Khan!

How'd you know my middle name?

Fanta khan Or'Botta...

Collectivist countries, Mexico, China, Japan, Phillipines, Almost all of the Eastern and Asian countries. No they are not perfect because they all have governments with agendas. Even India, although chained to a caste system are collectivists-why else would anyone agree to subsist in that enviornment, and agree to maintain it?

Humans began and food gatherers, free and equal members of society. Many still exist and they have no leaders.

We have become the prisoners of a mindset thousands of years in the making. We can't seem to get beyond the NEED to be LED. If there were only one goal between all people - to live for the betterment of all people there would be no need for centralized government.

YES, there will be natural leaders, those people who see a problem and pull together those who "want" to work of fixing it. But their leadership is not rewarded with money or kingship. Rewards come from the most primitive goals of humanity - to belong, to be productive and to be free.

NO MORE PROPAGANDA, no more media that supports capitalism. All programing will be educational. Imagine how entertaining a phisics class on TV could be to a person who loves physics.

You have not gotten to the core of removing the capitalist regime completely. You still consider capitalism as part of daily life only without government. NO - no money, no reward monetary reward for being good,for being going to work, for learning.

We would teach a new reward system, reaching ones full potential by becoming a useful, productive and EQUAL member of society.

The whole Venus project will never make sense to poeple until they can totally let go of all capitalistic ideas. Until people understand the TRUE rewards of being equal, free and capable of reaching their full potential.

Guess you haven't read any of this right?

I wish to thank you for your input. I have only recently begun my research into this concept, but I like what I read. My first thought was "New World Order" under the the pretext of a controlling party or group of individuals, and then I read further.

Trying to repair a gunshot wound with a bandaid (our current policy) is only prolonging the inevitable. Our present system will fail, and soon! The same people who caused it will want to offer a step in another direction, but it will all lead to the same end, domination, not progress!

I am frustrated by the lack of peoples willingness to believe there is a better alternative.

Bush said after 9/11 "Let us not tolerate outragious conspiracy theories...", in other words, "would I lie?". This action alone has cause so much grief because who wants to believe a President, or government, could lie to its people, but we have been shown their potential to do so again and again, and people still fail to see or believe the obvious truth of it.

We need a NEW direction, not a detour to the same destination! You have to question why hospitals and insurance companies let someone die when there is a cure available, because they can't afford it, or enough insurance to cover it! This is the system these "others" want to defend because people taking care of people just won't work? They are probably right, because most have been programed to believe just as they do. It is a shame, and truely saddening.

One of the biggest obstacles I think........

Religion and The Venus Project
29 March 2009 5 Comments
by Brian Watkins

In order for The Venus Project to succeed, there would have to be a shift in consciousness within the human species. An understanding that all things are connected, that all people are the same, that love is the driving force of the universe, and that treating all of life with respect is the key to survival.

Ironically, the entity which will likely be the biggest challenge to this shift taking place is religion. You see, religions would most likely not be a part of a society based on The Venus Project, well religions as they exist now at least. Why? Because inherent within each religion (well, the vast majority of them) is the idea that it is the truth, the ultimate, the one way. There is incredible rigidity, indoctrination and ideology. In many cases, and I say this only from experience, the underlying message of love, connectedness, understanding, and peace are clouded by rules, strict moral codes, and judgment. That cannot coexist with The Venus Project. It’s impossible.

I was raised Christian, very Christian. Synonymous with my childhood was Sunday morning church, Sunday evening church, Wednesday night church, church friends, church potlucks, church gatherings… church, church and more church. From kindergarten through college I attended religious schools, participated in religious services, studied religious doctrines and followed many religious rules.

Now, in some ways I am very thankful for my religious background. For instance, I was taught, and understood, at a very young age that there is a higher power. That there is a force that exists in the universe that is unfathomable and all-loving. That it is the creative power behind all things. I unequivocally believe this to be true. For that I am so grateful, and I question if I would have arrived to such an understanding had I not been raised in such a religious environment.

In other ways, however, I believe that growing up in such a religious environment caused me a great disservice. I was conditioned to believe that my way was the only way. That sin = X and that X = hell. I was ingrained with a sense of judgment, one that I still struggle with today. I went through spells in my life where I felt completely alone and misunderstood because I was convinced that I “got it” and other people didn’t. They were stupid, sinful, “unloving.” So ironic. I destroyed friendships and ostracized incredible people because I stood on my pedestal and condemned others. I believed I had it all figured out. I got life and God got me. He was down with me because I was so hardcore for him. Such silliness. Thinking back to some specific moments in my life, I can’t help but laugh. I had completely identified with an ideology, with a rigid belief system.

Thankfully, I have evolved past any ideology, and rigidity is a concept I constantly strive to remove from my being. And, in retrospect, I can see where it all went awry. I quite simply missed the most fundamental aspects of Christianity: love, compassion, kindness, peace, understanding, patience. While these things were mentioned, services were given on the subjects, and people claimed them as their way of living, I was never actually taught about them. I was never led to practice love or compassion. I was never encouraged to live a life of peace or understanding. I was only taught and led to practice judgment, judgment for people’s sinful actions, judgment for people’s heathen opinions, and judgment for people’s false religions. I don’t blame anyone for this. I have no hard feelings. I just believe that one (religion) leads to the other (judgment).

But, judgment is an archaic mindset. At its core, judgment fails to realize that all things are connected, that we are all one, that all of life is the same. And religions that hold themselves up as the only way or even the best way contain judgment, which is the antithesis to The Venus Project. In order for The Venus Project to succeed, a universal mindset of love, compassion, kindness and peace will have to exist. We will each have to realize that our lives are no more valuable than anyone else’s. That all humans are equal and deserving of the same resources and care. That judging a person for their actions or beliefs goes against the natural current of life, which is love.

The Venus Project accepts that reality. That we are all one. That we are all connected. That we are all equal. If that were the prevailing truth of our society wouldn’t that be such a more joyous way of living? I think so. And, in my opinion, the Venus Project does just that that. It is a perfect balance between science and spirituality. What a beautiful thing.

Article found here: http://journeytovenus.com/?p=355

You are so right Sojourning_Soul, when was the last time in history any plan for prosperity and social continuity was ever proposed without consideration to an elitist leadership? We learn from history and through anthropology that systems similar to the Venus project work in small groups, bands and tribes of people from all over the world. It works in these societies as long as there are adequate resources for all to share.

We are TOLD it can not work on large scales but that lie comes from the elitist governments. It was through trade that humanity has been able to evolve in the sciences, technology and philosophies.

But conflict and wars developed when one side of a trade placed value on money instead of equitably valued ‘products.’ Money led to slavery, serfdom and caste systems.

Although the United States is not considered a caste system, we have accepted the propaganda we are fed, that movement between the classes is easily accessible. It is not. We are only slightly better off than those who live in caste systems and only slightly better off than those who suffered the fate of serfdom.

None of that is necessary. We have the means to limit human reproduction; we have the means to provide more than adequate necessities. And we have the capability of making our chosen activities joyful, productive and fulfilling, to ourselves and to society. But NO JOB can be fulfilling if we are slave to the money we receive as our reward for doing the job.

Boo2U, yes but I know that Christians are likely to feel most threatened by the revelation you have included.

They are not only once that would be affected. India and its caste system has its entire bases on its religion. Unlike the Christians, those of India DO LIVE their religion.

But religion has so drastically evolved since their conception, that another evolution may be as drastically needed as the change from a monetary system to one without.

It would take more than a change in mindset to allow a utopian society to succeed, assuming it could ever even begin. Greed, hatred, violence, and war are as much a part of humanity as love, peace and happiness. While I'm not convinced any current form of government is working, utopian ideals are not going get us any closer to a perfect society.

Boo, to require me to read the original copy-paste, is to admit that you personally, have no idea about it. If you do, then you are able to answer my questions easily.

As my questions are not being answered at all, other than by adding more ideological stuff on top of already posted, then it can easily be seen that even the supporters of this, have no slightest idea of how this can possibly work, other than if everyone was reeducated or a martian.

I, and I always say that, will not work. I will spend my day in leisure, and even the things I could do, I would delegate to those who desire to do them. Further, if you decode to have no government, then what I would do is to organize my own little army, and enslave the rest.

I figure it is always great to have a slave that wants to do my dishes anyway.

I would be there day one with my sleeves rolled up, I think it's a wonderful idea. We have been saying life is not fair for centuries yet we do nothing to make it fair either, because some are pretty happy with they share of fair they get from life, and aren't all that willing to see everyone get the same.

Thomas, you bring up greed, but you left out Selfish, some folks will always think they are entitled to more than others.

Greed and selfishness, if not one and the same, are co-dependent.

Let's simplify the whole picture.....

You are aboard a ship when it sinks in a storm. Only the passengers survive, fated to exist on an uncharted island. All know government, laws, basic beliefs, but there is no leader known to all present. The need is to survive. Do you allow the biggest bully to rule, or someone with intelligence, ingenuity, the thought of getting everyone home alive?

Do you work together willingly, for the good of all, or do you want to be the cause of conflict, separating your numbers, deminishing your chances of survival?

What is your money worth then? Do you argue for a government, who will lead? Why?

I said it before, there is no perfect society. There will always be problems. People will always look to someone to lead, but why does it have to be an individual? Why can't it be by the contribution of all, a co-op? No one person has all the answers, but many have an answer, some better than others.

That was why our government was originally formed, to act on the will of the many, under a constitution that governed all, for the good of all, but greed and power has corrupted it.

If America went on strike, deprived them of their power by witholding our trades, abilities, labor and support from them, how much power would they actually have? What good would all the money and power they crave to possess be if we simply bartered among ourselves for our needs? What would they have power over?

They have the tool of control, the media, but we fill the jobs within it. They have an agency to control food and drugs, but we are the workers who run the machines and grow the crops.

The monetary system is dead! It doesn't work. It is corrupted and it can't be fixed, and as long as we slave under it, there will be brutality, conflict, hate and war.

In my opinion, communal resource sharing is a better alternative!

Rome was a great empire, but as all empires, it failed eventually. We need a mindset that allows alternatives, creative thinking, progress, or as the signs show, we will fall as Rome did! SOON!

Sojourning_Soul, allow me to point out a mistake in your reasoning.

1)

You're mentioning a monetary system. We do not live under any monetary system presently. We do not use the concept of money today, which is why we are having all the problems.

How can you hope, that to remove what we do not have, is going to solve something then?

I can say that we would live better if we remove the Martian Feudal Lords from our government. But we do not have any, as it is. Therefore, whatever our problems are, they are not derived from the presence of those Lords, however, they may be derived from their absence, although they not have to.

Today, we live in stage 1 communism, where there are already no money, but there is still the perception of money. A perception only.


2)

As an emergency solution, communal organization does work. But that is it. In emergencies only. Famine, war, or poverty. As long as these are present, it will work. But, by using communal organization, you won't be able to ever live better than that.

This is why, the human kind did live in poverty, war, and famine, all the way until the invention of the division of labor, which is impossible without money. This is, the prime benefit of having money, the ability to divide labor.

3)

Rome fell for one reason. It accepted Christianity. You will not find this in approved textbooks, however. It is forbidden to know.

a)It accepted Christianity as step 1.

b)Then it destroyed money as step 2, and a consequence of step 1.

c)Then it fell as step 3 and a consequence of step 2.

d)Then there were so called "dark ages", contrary to what modern textbooks will have you believe, because it was step 4, a consequence of step 2 by Rome, the destruction of money. Without money, it was impossible to support the populations, as they had long overgrown what was possible to support by an inefficient communal system.

We are following these same steps (with a fault being placed on Christianity being a questionable proposition this time around, since Christianity no longer rules the government), while people are guessing about what is wrong with the system.

If we don't know our history, we will be bound to repeat it.

The world is not a simplistic environment as a deserted isle is.
The difference is astronomical!

I will agree with you as far as our currency being only the preception of money, but still it is accepted as "wealth", presently.

Christianity has its downside, and as with our currency, it is a tool to control, but its "basic" principles (commandments) are not so unacceptable as a belief system.

I don't however believe that a communal system is a bad thing, or only good for emergency.

As for "religious belief", we speak of freedom of religion, yet we condemn those who don't believe as we do. That is a direct contradiction of its principles. It is the teaching, teachers and govenors of it that make it flawed. The "human factor", full of greed and powerlust, the desire to rule a group mind. In its unadulterated sense, it offers hope, and hope will always create a following. That is why it was adapted in many forms, to fit a variety of peoples, by governing individuals seeking wealth and the power over others it contained.