Jesus taught the following lesson

Matthew 5:38-39
-------------------------------------------------------------
You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A
TOOTH.' But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever
slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
-------------------------------------------------------------

This verse has many different interpretations, but only one translation
that takes into account the rest of the Bible.

Luke 22:36
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He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag;
and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 5:38-39 tempers Luke 22:36 and Luke 22:36 clarifies Matthew
5:38-39.

There is also the fact that Jesus said "You have heard" instead of "It
is written". These scriptures put together reveal the true meaning
behind what Jesus taught.

Luke 22:36 reveals that Jesus gives us the right and responsiblity to
protect ourselves and others. Matthew 5:38-39 shows that when a life
isn't in danger, we should not use force. Because Jesus said "You have
heard", we know that Jesus wasn't talking about what the Torah teaches,
he was speaking out against vigilantism. The Laws were given to Israel
the nation, not the Israelite people. It is the government's place to
enforce the laws, but each person has a right and responsilbity to
protect human life.

Wow!

So therefor you have heard to turn the other cheek.

And I say to you. If a man slap you upon the right cheek and you turn
unto him the left as a gesture of peace and then the left does he also
smite his intention is to but smite you and not be at peac with you. Be
thou quick then to leave him not a way to smite thee again. For he has
taken your turning to be a weakness and not the gesture of peace you
intended.

Speak with the words of the son and I will offer unto you my words.

As a the father wants peace and tranquility for his children and the
generations to follow so also shall I be willing to allways offer peace
twice. There can be no third offer as peace is not within one that has
refused it when offered with humble meekness once, and knowing faith,
with forgiving meekness the second time. Upon the second refusal I
shall then return with swiftness and a heavy heart that which has been
bestowed upon me and shall continue in sadness but with firm resolve to
mete out what I must to end aggression against me.

AdventureBegins,

Your lesson doesn't teach the same peace and love that is present is the
lessons taught by Jesus. On the matter of forgiveness (notice that
turning the other cheek isn't about forgiveness), Jesus said the
following:

Matthew 18:21-22
-------------------------------------------------------------
Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin
against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I
do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
-------------------------------------------------------------

well put spider . . . was going to say the same, but got distracted:)

Mathew...

A book written by a man. Speaking words he heard uttered by a son. In
the time of the son.

We are in the time of the father. Quote something more revelant.
________________________________________________________________

I am not a teacher. I am but a man. I voice with my voice that which
has been given me by the spirit. What you take from my words is up to
you.

I was not speaking of my brother. I was speak of a man. A man is not
my brother if he be slappin my cheeks.

AdventureBegins,

I consider everyone my brother. You are stuck in the same legalism that
was taught by the Pharisees, you only offer forgiveness to anyone who
are nice to you. Once again, the morality of men is found lacking when
compared with the lessons taught by Jesus.

Oh so now in addition to being a lier I am a 'Parisee'.

You sir have a strange way of showing said brotherhood.

I offer forgiveness to all. Some chose to strike out at me.

We wernt discussing sin we were discussing being smitten. If you sin
against me I can not judge but only live. If you strike me I will offer
forgiveness but twice. I am a father my children need me to remain.
That is more important than all the words you weave into a veil blocking
the truth.

You may twist about like the eel but your words have nothing to do with
what was originally discussed. This makes them suspect of being but lip
service to the lord you serve.

The sharpness of your sword has no effect upon me. I am safe in the
spirit of god.

Where's the puke emoticon?

Spider>

You have stated...
'Your lesson doesn't teach the same peace and love that is present is
the lessons taught by Jesus. On the matter of forgiveness (notice that
turning the other cheek isn't about forgiveness)...'

I submitt to you that turning the other cheek requires forgivness
without a doubt.

I am the son of a man not the son of a god. My first reaction if you
hit me is to knock you on your ass. However Christ has exhtorted me to
turn the other cheek so I must try. Therefor I will forgive you because
of my faith and turn as has been asked by one who is within the glory of
god.

AdventureBegins,

I am a father too, that has nothing to do with the discussion.

The post was to explain a verse, Matthew 5:38-39. That verse has
nothing to do with forgiveness, it's about obeying the law. Your post
was a rant about forgiveness, I'm not sure what that was about. Perhaps
you are reaching out to me and asking me to apologize to you?

Listen. You say that the Bible is just the words of men. You insist
that the Word has no effect on you. So my question is why do you get
offended when I quote the scripture? Why do you have to reply to posts
of scripture with "That's just the words of men?" These are rhetorical
questions, I just want you to think about it.

Go back to the thread we argued in all day yesterday. If you look on
page 1 of that thread, you will find that you and Jess both started to
attack me. I am not willing to forgive either of you, because I already
have. You can hold onto anger and hate, but I have moved on. Ask for
prayer and you'll have it immediately after I see the post. Tell me the
tragedies in your life and I'll offer you a shoulder to cry on. I offer
tough love, sometimes quoting scriptures that cut. Years ago, I had to
confront my brother about his drug addiction. It was out of control and
cost him everything. Today he won't talk to me and says he will never
forgive me (long story, not what you think either), but he's not on
drugs anymore. He has a great job and I keep up on him through mutual
friends.

I am the first to admit that I "tit-for-tat" with the best of them. You
attack me and I attack right back. I am not a good example of God's
love, because my heart is set on evil. I get angry and I say mean
things. I apologize for that, for whatever sarcastic and mean things I
have said. In my heart of hearts, I know that "first blood" (sorry for
the Rambo reference) was never drawn by me. That's no excuse, because
as a Christian I should always be an example of God's love. Live your
life by your moral code and I will do my best to live my life by God's
moral code. Live and let live.

That doesn't mean I will put my sword away, it just means I won't stoop
to the level of retribution when someone is rude or insulting to me.

Take care man.

I could go and copy the post in which you called me a lier. I will not.

There is no reason. I have never attacked you. I have stated my piece
and moved on to the next thread.

I care not what scriptures you quote. Why would you think they make me
angry?

On the contrary please post away. You give me then the chance to say
other things that may make just one person think beyond the rock all
seem to be hiding within for fear of the lord. Once a person steps
beyond that rock they will see that there is a world prepared for us
that is beyond anything they have been told and that god is so much more
than a mere rock.

Please post away with the words of the son.

AdventureBegins,

I have already offered an apology, you don't seem willing to accept it.
So let me say again, I apologize. I could go to threads and post the
attacks you have made against me and Christianity, but I don't see the
point, do you? So you can accept my apology or not, either way I'm done
fighting with you.

Who is fighting.

I have not attacked christainity. I have offered a light to shine upon
the darkness. The lamp I hold is different from the lamp you hold but
the light contained within is the same.

Aye AB but many would prefer we all hold the same brand of lamp
regardless of the light that shines from it is the very same
light....sad but true

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here!
This is the War Room!"--Peter Sellers in "Dr Strangelove, Or How I
Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

so does that mean, if I bend over and you slap my arse, that I have to
bare the other cheek to have that slapped too?

have all of you taken a look at this thread and actually read it
thru????




it is really pretty sad and awful..... you all are basically on the same
side and yet still have to do this ridiculous male machismo competetive
abusive and humiliating rivalry....


listen to ya selves man!!

ehem! ... dont be lumping me in with this lot ... Im only here for an
arse-slapping!

the science projects in the kitchen weren't enough for you
eh???!!!

bl8ant,

Could you show me the parallels between what AdventureBegins and what I
have typed, because I see none. His position being that he needs to
forgive someone two times and Jesus's lesson being that you must forgive
seventy times seven.