I am curious what we all believe made the messiah perfect sacrafice
for our sins? Thanks miles

Read the Bible sometime. Pick a gospel. Or watch a movie. The best
way is for you to discover yourself.

I don't believe in perfection- study the religious paradoxes. You might
be interested in taking a few philosophy and spirituality courses. The
best way to discover your own oppinion is to learn afterall.

Curious what we all believe ????

I believe the world is flat do you ?

belief is it mind programing or fact ?

we all know the world is not flat..

The sacrifice was perfect obedience to his father's command. Do you
really think he wanted to die? Also,even pontius pilate found him to be
innocent. The scriptures also say that there wa no sin found in him.

Oh yeah, for the people who think that the bible is just a fairy tale,
there are over 3000 prophecys that have been fulfilled and all were 100
percent accurate.Then there's the scientific community that has used the
bible itself totry and disprove it. They fail every time. Onething that
many people aren't aware of is te first astronut that walked on the moon
was terrifiedto step out because, if evelution was accurate, thedust on
the moon would be calculated to be seven miles deep!! so he stepped out,
took measurements,brought the depth back to the scientist and guess
what? the deth fitsthe creation, not evolution time frame.Where did i
hear this? From Mr.Arstrong himself in a live interview.

Thanks rproman..
Thier has in the past at least been a fad of wearing bracelets
WWJD (what would jesus do). If he was the perfect sacrafice why do we
not teach to do what he did?

I believe that the entire historical event was incorrectly reported by
biased reporters.

I personally don't believe in a god that is fanatically obsessed with
sin and salvation.

I believe that whole distorted story gives a really demented picture of
a god that’s obsessed with sin, and it also fails to recognize the
greatness of the mortal man who was named Jesus and who tried to spread
love, tolerance, and hope during times of desperate oppression.

This I believe.

I see no reason to believe that anything about it was 'perfect'

So if no perfection then are you saying the bible Yahweh and the
messiah are lies/fake? The whole christian religion bases thier belief
on this.

this belongs in religion doesn't it? anyhow he was perfect and we cannot
be that was the whole point in him giving his life so that we may enter
the kingdom through him.

Though i respect all views, we can all agree that we can disagree and
coexist,The Lord is not obsessed with sin, he is obsessed with removing
it so that he can have that lost relationship with us that was lost in
the garden. Before anyone starts shouting about how christians have done
so much evil andkilled so many, let me remind you that if you took all
of the wars considered for chritian crusading nd combined all the
killing, you would coe up with an approximate 30,000 killed. Let's revie
what an atheistic government or power has done to people(killed)
Communist Mao tsidung killed 70 million of his own people!! why? without
a belief in God, there is no true vale of hman life except for personal
and poitical gain. Inrespone to what would Jesus do bracelets, it is
taught friend,in the ible andin churches all over the world.

Man did.

My keys stick awful!!

Miles wrote:
"So if no perfection then are you saying the bible Yahweh and the
messiah are lies/fake? The whole christian religion bases thier belief
on this."

No not at all.

I believe that they were sincere efforts to worship a martyr.

Efforts made by men who wanted to believe in something bigger than life.

It is my personal belief that Jesus has spend much time in the far east
(I believe this is the suggested history). I also believe that while in
the far east Jesus learned from the sages there about their mystical
interpretation of god. The mystics basically believe that everything is
god, which would naturally include us. Therefore in a very real sense
they believe that they are god in a sense.

I believe that Jesus then returned back to the western culture and tried
to deliver this message within the context of their belief system (which
was to believe in an external separate god that resides in heaven)

Because of this drastic clash in these differnet philosophical views the
people misunderstood Jesus when he said that he and ‘the father’ on one.
I believe that Jesus was trying to do the best he could with what he had
to work with.

So no, I don’t believe that anyone was purposefully lying or trying to
deceive anyone. I think the whole thing was just grossly misunderstood.

This I believe.

Thanks . you all are right and i apologize i got mixed up on what forum
i was on. is thier a way to transfer this thread to the religion
section? miles

Try contacting the Site owners, they might be able to move the thread
for you.

GOD created us and the world,we as man created nothing
but a HELL for us all to see,breathe and hear.we see it
every day outside and on tv.man killing man.who is perfect?it
speaks for itself.any elese is false beliefs.thats whats
wrong with the world today!!!

What makes you think he was perfect?

The scriptyres say he had to be to be the "lamb of Yahweh" sacraficed
for the people. Only then could salvation/grace which is like a govenors
pardon can people who believe have eternal life.

rproman - you wrote:
"""without a belief in God, there is no true vale of hman life except
for personal and poitical gain."""

You wrote this as slur to those who profess to be Athiest. Exactly how
did you, as a Christian, or even as a monothiest, earn the right to pass
judgement on any single person, much less an entire group? How dare you
do that?

What great "logic" did it take for you to spew such a bigoted remark?
What other groups, what other people do you judge?

How much time, did you spend researcing history and all the human
conflicts in 'known' history when coming to the conclusion you did with
regards to deaths within conficts of a religious nature? Or did you
just take some half witted persons, illogical ravings to heart. Many
bigoted people do that you know. Many will listen to any fallasy that
may tend to support thier hatred.