Why? Gays and Lesbian snot many years ago was taboo. Do you not think this will not be rationalized eventually?

It's natural will be the cry.

It is no different than the supposed question that started this thread.

You find that only a nut case could want such a thing.

Do you not find that only a nut case would want torture?

The sins of the fathers are passed down through a few generations.

The question posed is no different than the one I posed or do you support slavery your great grandfather was a slave owner?

So do you?

Do you support the KKK someone in your family may of been a member?

See a question is just that. One you do not already know the answer to.

When you already know the answer, you are not seeking but trying to set up an agenda to BASH. Plain and simple.

That is the true atrocity of civilization to plan to demonize a people or a nation by planting untrue thoughts in the mind of the ones you target and your own.

Look at Iraq same thing was planted in our minds.

the hidden mystic hidden behind the blind, the tell of all that is more real and not sublime, track exactely step for step the physical realm, even as each breath as in and out, life in poison out, and if some of the physical is seen as having no good meaning, it is only but to self demeaning, and hide what be behind the door each cycle to unwind, mans mission and destiny but the perfect to find.

I have worked for over 13 years with s?x offenders and with the abused. There was a professor at Temple U (in Philly where I live) who published a longitunal study concluding that it did not hurt the victim under certain circumstances and all heck broke loose for two weeks, until the story was buried. Errr, what was the question again? The point comes down to ability to consent and there are a morass of tools for that. Like Xians say- don't h@te the sinner, h@te the sin? I work with individuals not society as a whole. Biologically and historically children appear "ready" at that certain age, however manipulation, coercion, etc. is another thing.

if mans torture and sins were passed down from generation to generation, than it only be lack of acceptence that let the torture in, and created all that was sin, egotistical self vanity that try to coerce and force and make it's own reality to be, create torture and miserality, and get left behind in peaceful blissful reality.

Also, there are several passages in the Xian bible that clearly state (well as clear as the various editors translate it) that no more shall people say the sins of the father are carried by the children- Jeremiah was a bullfrog, was a good friend of mine...

You see my point then. A pointed question is not a question at all.

It is working its way through my pointy skull

I started reading all the responses to this great question before I gave up. These Christians avoided the question at all cost, until a few non-believers started voiceing their opinions. Then, quickly, the Christians ran to the defense of Christianity by saying it's not torture, with very little explanation. As an atheist, I would like to point out that Bible calls for a town to stone a child to death if s/he is disobediant. I consider stoning a form of torture, because you die slowly and it hurts. So do take this wonderful question a step further, how do Christians deal with verses that deal with stoning children to death if Christianity doesn't permit torture?

I think a lot of the bible is telling us recounts of history that happened to get a point across. It doesn't mean anyone supports torture. I know people enjoy picking apart things they don't like or understand just to defend their point of view regardless of faith or lack of. JMO

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.' Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

How is that a recount of history that is happens to get a point across? If the point is that children should be disobediant, isn't there a better way for an all-knowing, all-powerful God to convey His word? I mean, you can cherry pick everything you want, but I could never believe in something this horrific. You are right in one thing, however, and that's that people actually did this stuff! The Bible promoted it. So even if we are misunderstanding this, God conveyed this message knowing how we would interpret it. Doesn't He get any responsibility in this?

No... TRUE Christianity DOES NOT support Physical torture... As in using it to extract information from a Prisoner. (Either Military or Civilian.)

To keep someone locked up, in a humane fashion, intended to prevent them from commiting more crimes against Humanity... Yes.




"Moses' Law" should NOT be used under the guise of bine "THE LAW" to break one of GOD'S Laws= (The Ten Commandments.)

They are TOTALLY different.

Too many "Christians" try to use The Bible as a "License" to do whatever they wish... It won't work.

You are talking about a religion, that's main symbol is a guy nailed to a cross. Seems pretty torturous to me.

It's all in the reading comphrehension:

Galatians 3:13 (New King James Version)

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),*


*Reference:

Deuteronomy 21:23 (New King James Version)

23 his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Christ was crucified under The Old Testament Laws... Christianity only came into being when HE rose from the grave...

it is but first believing in a belief learned from the outside, that self did not know or have upon arrival, that seperate self from all it's own wisdom and empathy of human struggle and learning???

such power to destroy only come from within first, and self is but provided validation of what it first wished to believe for itself, no matter what this may be, from outside sources???

if anything see not what cause the very root, of what itself see and despise, came first from within humanness itself, than how can it recognize the natural inclinations of the mind, that create all such things, within itself, to guide self beyond yesterdays horizons, which is but to first never allow the self to believe self is better in any way shape or form than another???

surely it is seen the point of inception onto a planet called earth, dictate what is seen, what is heard, so what shape most this thing called good knowing???

there is no religion or belief that can be held repsonsible, for anything within a human prey upon another as less, as a heart must first fall prey to believing itself is better, or more intelligent, or more valuable, before it can cause undue harm unto another, and ANY WORDS in the universe self can use to do this???

any words spoken and believed, could not be first believed, unless first there was a feeling within, then a thinking within, to idenify what was heard outside as true, and so convince there is good reason for actions???

it is but first the notion to disbelieve the words of any other, that slowly but surely convince self it's own insight, is as a diety, and to ignore the words, and then plight, and then plea of other's, that first led to many atrocities.

I am also a human. Just because some humans kill other humans does that mean I support murder? No, of course not. That is a dumb analogy of Christians supporting torture.

Christianity says nothing about stoning anyone. In 3,000 BC Judism this might have been the case - but you won't find it anywhere in Christianity. So, as I Christain - I might suggest to you that you learn about that in which you don't believe if you are going to commet on it, and at least get it right.

Directly from your Holy book:
Exodus 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Deuteronomy 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Deuteronomy 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Hebrews 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Joshua 7:25 And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.

1 Kings 21:13 And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

need any more?