They called themselves Murry!? That would be like Native Indians
calling themselves Bob =D

But they had boomerang lessons, and lessons on how to play that giant
wooden pipe thing that sounds like an elephant ^.^ Your coming with me
next time I go =P

Didgeridoo...lmao !!

Who named those!? The native Australians need to come up with better
names, cause I think they smoked stuff in the pipe while coming up with
names O_O jking!

Hi All, been gone a couple days. The drought situation on a global
level is, in fact, becoming worse and will get worse. The largest
determining factor is what has been referred to as the greenhouse
affect. The polutants, WE, put into our atomosphere is causing this
phenomenon. Why is it causing a shortage of fresh water?

In a world with a good echo system, the polor ice caps melt slowely
during warmer seasons. This water runs off feeding into many sources,
underground, fresh water streams and such. This water, this polor ice
cap run off has been the largest fresh water sourse of this world for,
well as far as we can trace. Again, looking a balanced echo system, the
weather patterns are more predictable. Farm country is farm country
because there was good soil and the appropriate rain fall. Now, there
is not appropriate rain fall, now, we use fresh water sources to water
crops. This depletes even further our already endangered water supply.

There has been some discussion, here on ways to get fresh water.
Pipelines won't help, for some 90% of these water sources are fed from
the polor ice cap run off. Converting saltwater won't help, as it gets
most of it's "refill" from the polor ice cap run off. Looking for
water sources on other planets. If we are thinking in those terms,
wouldn't it be better to spend the money right here to educate the
masses, to invest in mass transportation, to look for fuel alternatives
that would stop the polution.

This is a serious problem. This is not a new problem either, however,
schientist report that recent changes in the last 5 to 10 years have
become alarming. The time schedule originally estimated for our polor
source to run out may actually be down to half of the original time.
Some scientists wonder if there's even enough time to correct the echo
system, to right the damage that is taking place.

While Jess brought this to our attention as a "look beyond your own back
window" concern, this is our back window, this has to do with every
human on this planet.

Good topic Jess. Except for political issues, I doubt that we'd find a
whole lot of issues that don't, in some way, affect us all, even if we
can't see it from our own window.

Thankyou red,

and to add to your points with polar ice caps, and melts,unlike the
Northern Hemispere, none of the Southern Hemisphere continents are
attached to the southern cap, Antarctica.

There is no benefit to the seasonal melts, other than rising sea levels
and a dilution of the briney-ness of the ocean waters around there.

What does impact globally for all of us, is what bl8ant, Alex, mentioned
in her post, "The Conveyer Belt".

All global weather is impacted by the warm and cool currents of the
oceans.

The conveyer belt of cool moist air off the currents running between the
Uk and Europe, (that came up from the warmer currents off Afrika)
provide Europe with their heating and cooling jetstreams...(I know this
in theory, but I may be a little out, will research it further).

These same currents weave their way around the whole planet, cooling and
heating, as it passes around the equator and near the Polar caps. As
these caps are shrinking, (indisputable, regardless of the reasons,
natural, or Global Warming) the ocean currents, the 'Conveyer Belt' of
air shifts as well, the world's weather patterns shift,..resulting in
massive floods, huge volumes of snow and fierce storms, in some parts of
the Northern Hemisphere, bigger super hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones
around the equator, and desperately long droughts further to the south
of the Equator..and into the Southern Hemispere.

Water is the source of life, and is a finite resource that all life
depends on...

From www.mos.org/oceans...


The map shows a generalized pattern of ocean currents. In each ocean
basin there is a roughly circular current flow called a gyre.

The world's oceans travel in well-defined circular patterns called
currents which flow like rivers. When the atmosphere pushes over the
surface of the ocean some of the energy goes to forming waves while the
rest goes to pushing the water in the direction of the wind. North of
the equator currents bend to the right, south of the equator they bend
to the left. This is called the Coriolis effect. Winds, continents and
the Coriolis effect make currents flow around the oceans in huge loops
called gyres.

when i look out my window all i see is australian bush.its green and my
tanks full the drought seems to be missing my little peice of
Australia.growth and development more growth and development not enough
consumers more people this planet needs more people to help fix every
thing up we need heaps more people to consume more breeding more more is
better more money will be generated with more consumers more money then
to spend fixing it so we can increase our growth and development i
reckon its gunner be great when i can subdivide my 60 acres into house
blocks ill be worth a motsa then

I haven't been following this thread closely but I did a quick scan of
it just now. If I got this right I am going to die of thirst in a
global warming deep freeze . Is that right? Actually my area of
the country is in a several year long drought. Last month the headlines
in the local paper were La Nina will cause our cooler temperatures and
higher than average percipitation in July and August. A week later the
headlines in the same paper were that the drought would continue with a
much hotter and dryer July and August. Nothing like covering all the
bases and about as accurate at George Carlin's "Hippy Dippy Weatherman".

Now to reply to the original topic what's going on outside my window,
it's a beautiful day, warm, bit of a breeze, some high thin clouds. It's
a perfect spring day, quiet and the birds are singing. For now I will
not turn on the radio or TV and spoil that with any news. I am going
out to the garage and beat the heck out of some red hot iron.

i think ill just contemplate my navel i never get to thirsty doin
that someone else can flush their exkrament with my share.

Jess, Ihave so much to say about this topic"looking out your window"
that I am not gonna try and do it all in here. it ties into (along with
things other poeple have said) several other issues, such as (for
example) proper leadership in america.
We, as a people, need to get our heads out of the sand and start looking
at whats going on around us more and paying attention to what it is
telling us when we do look. I, personally, do not watch a whole lot of
news. I keep telling myself Iam gonna start watching every day at ssay,
6pm, along with reading the papers, etc etc etc. But in the end I
rarely do because I can not stand all the negatism in the news, and I
dont see a whole lot of actual "news" being broadcast, just
sensationalism to sell the paper or time slots.
However, I do agree with you that we need to go back to where everyone
looked out for everyone. Otherwise we are only gonna suffer worse and
worse until nothing is left, to include the human race.

.

Mass, what's on your mind? Or were you emulating a polor ice cap?

Jess, thanks for bringing up some of the weather charting effects. That
is all part of the the whold theory, along with the melting of the polor
ice caps. An important part that I only touched on.

How is this drought currently being handled by your governing body?
Have you heard or read about any changes or suggested changes through or
by your government?

Just wondering if there might be some action worth trying to take here.

My home desert. The one I grew up in used to be the 3rd largest desert
in the world.

Now its number 5.

Kinda gives a different meaning to the quote..

"The desert shall be made to bloom and blossom as the rose"...

All the worlds deserts are blossoming... They are growing by leaps.

Red,
in my limited understanding, on a State level this government is going
to try and do the same as what has already failed...build more
dams...forgetting the need for rainfall is the primary method of filling
these dams.

A new dam in the Gympie region of Queensland has been slated for
construction to feed Brisbane, the capital city..

While on a local level, the council here has imposed a mandate that
every dwelling must have a 5000 gallon tank, as a minimum, attached to
the dwelling and new businesses are, I think,
10 000 gallons.

I know this is also being taken up in many towns and cities across
Australia, even if only to be used for washing, toilets, and gardens..

The thing is, these tanks rely on rain..

I have lived with a 5000gallon tank for over 20 years as my only water
supply, I am not connected to mains water, and I run out, I have to
purchase creek water, if available.

At a Federal level I am unsure of the directives this government is
taking, other than postulating on the pro's and con's of de-salination,
and who foots the bill...

from www.abc.net/drought...

ASTRONAUTS do it. Americans do it. Even Adelaidians do it. Drinking
recycled water is as common as muck, yet it has the power to divide
communities, terrify politicians and motivate otherwise rational people
to conduct bizarre fear campaigns.
The decision last week to hold a March 17 plebiscite on whether
southeast Queenslanders should have recycled waste water pouring from
their taps is a remarkable triumph of politics over policy, populism
over leadership. But the Peter Beattie Government doesn't have exclusive
rights over this dominant school of political science in Australia.
Australia is in the grip of a prolonged and serious drought, coupled
with fast growing urban regions where the capacity for more traditional
water supply options, such as dams, are limited by geography.

With the risk of a further warming and drying climate, Australian cities
have no choice but to find new and additional sources of water. Dams are
just about done and dusted. There are few new options available and they
continue to rely on the build-and-pray strategy that is the central
weakness of the existing dam network. Growing cities need diversity in
their water portfolio.

There is a suite of choices depending on location but options come down
to the big four: desalinating sea water, recycling waste water, tapping
into river systems and buying back water from irrigators, and accessing
groundwater where available.

As was pointed out in the most recent economic analysis on the options
of water policy prepared by economic consultants Mardsen Jacobs and
commissioned by parliamentary secretary for water Malcolm Turnbull, the
cost and therefore appropriateness of these strategies varies
significantly depending on scale and location.

Desalination is only a viable option for coastal cities. Long pipelines
become prohibitively expensive for some regions to tap into irrigation
waters. Groundwater is a geological condition.

Choosing options from this list is the role of government, based on the
confluence of expert resources available in departments of water, health
and planning. It's the type of tough but important decision we elect and
pay politicians to make. We don't like it when they set taxes and ban
fireworks, but we accept their authority.

In the case of drinking recycled water, it's either safe, or it's not.
It's either a cost-effective solution for southeast Queensland, or there
are better alternatives. Choosing where the new water comes from is a
complex policy decision. It is not a decision for Queenslanders, it is a
decision for its leaders.

"We need leadership from our governments, not procrastination," says
Peter Cosier from the Wentworth Group, which has been a key driver of
water policy reform in Australia. "If we are going to have a referendum
on water every time we're going to do something new, I want to see a
referendum on the next interest rate rise, too."

In July the citizens of Toowoomba were asked to vote on a $68 million
council plan to top up their dwindling water supplies with recycled
effluent. Unsurprisingly the campaign was dominated by a ferocious fear
campaign which dragged the proposal down with an overwhelming no vote.

The campaign language said it all: Poowoomba. **** city. Toilet to tap.
Fear and ignorance are two sides of the same coin.

Following the referendum former Queensland Opposition leader Lawrence
Springborg warned of the risk of "feminisation" from drinking recycled
effluent caused by hormones left in the water that could cause "changes
to the basic metabolism of species".

NSW Premier Morris Iemma went on the record saying Sydneysiders were not
ready for recycled waste water. Other state governments moved quickly to
distance themselves.

By its very nature, holding a referendum on recycled water creates the
false inference that there is something innately sinister about the
option, as if the community is being asked to endure some new hardship
for the common good.

If, as is likely, the no campaign triumphs on March 17, this vote will
be spun as a mandate for more new dams or other non-referendum necessary
option as the only alternative.

It's shameful politics. It lacks vision, it lacks responsibility. It
takes the mandate of the recent Queensland election and does absolutely
nothing with it. It leads from the rear. This style of political
non-leadership is not the exception, it's the rule; a modern blight on
our political landscape.

The stupid thing is that drinking recycled water in all its various
guises is more common than most people realise. From a global
perspective Australia and the way it supplies fresh water to its people
is more the exception than the rule.

The water for Australian cities has traditionally come from a network of
large dams strung across the hills and valleys above. But across the US
and Europe massive rivers are the geographical foundation of many of the
world's great and less great cities. Paris, New York, Berlin, London.

Water that starts at the top of the Rhine River in Switzerland goes in
and out of the homes and businesses of Basel, then Bonn, Cologne,
Dusseldorf and then Rotterdam, stopping in smaller towns along the way.
The Mississippi River feeds Minneapolis, Memphis, St Louis and New
Orleans. These mighty rivers are both sources for fresh water,
recipients of treated waste water and natural purification systems all
rolled into one.

To the rest of the world recycled water isn't a novel idea, it's an
institution. Systems recycling water directly for drinking by recharging
natural storages are in place in California and Singapore.

Australian cities already recycle about 8per cent of waste water. They
just don't drink it. But about half of Adelaide's drinking water is
piped from the Murray, containing treated waste water from Canberra and
other towns upstream.

As the drought deepens and dam levels get lower, Australia's unofficial
water mafia have stepped up their efforts to roll out an informal but
increasingly urgent campaign to try to evolve popular attitudes to
water, the cost, where it comes from and the role new sources will need
to play if we want to keep on drinking, washing and gardening in the
future.

Last month the Wentworth Group released its latest paper calling for
aggressive, unconditional buyback of water entitlements; establishing a
National Water Account; tighter regulations to offset water losses from
timber plantations and dams; and the endorsement of new water sources
such as desalination, recycling and water pre-use.

Three weeks later the Marsden Jacobs report, Securing Australia's Urban
Water Supplies, estimated the costs of different water options, from
long pipelines to demand management. Its key message was that different
solutions suit different conditions, but equally that populist solutions
such as the installation of rainwater tanks sit very much at the
expensive end of the spectrum.

Last week the Water Services Association of Australia released a
policy-maker's guide on how governments should introduce recycled water
into the policy thinking. Entitled Refilling the Glass, it seeks to
clarify the technical myths, make a pointed recommendation that water
for drinking be put back into environmental buffers such as rivers or
dams rather than straight back into the pipes, and explains how
governments should take time to communicate with and engage communities.
The word referendum doesn't appear once.

"We need to get better information out to the community and improve the
community's literacy about the issues associated with recycled water so
we can have better and more informed debates out there," WSAA chief
executive Ross Young says of the paper.

"It's easy to run a divisive and negative campaign about putting
recycled water back into the drinking water supply. On this particular
issue our political leaders have been deferring to referendums rather
than being decisive and showing leadership. I can't understand why, in a
time of drought like this, if they are convinced by consulting with
their health experts that this is the best solution, why they wouldn't
just proceed."

Young says that the March timeframe is insufficient for adequate
consultation with the community and to bring them up to speed on all the
issues to ensure they have sufficient confidence in the new system.

He points to parched Goulburn in NSW as a better model of a city serious
about water recycling, as evidenced by its council's six-month
consultation with residents to explain a $40 million water recycling
proposal. Goulburn mayor Paul Stephenson sees recycled water in some
form as part of his city's future, at least for parks and industry, with
the capacity to switch on potable water as required.

"You turn your back on recycling at your peril," Stephenson says.
"Toowoomba had huge amounts of money thrown at the no vote and it was
always going to fail because there was nothing else for anyone to look
at."

The same advice could be given about proposing the Dr Strangelove of
alternative water solutions: desalination. Certainly former NSW premier
Bob Carr got it horribly wrong with his snap announcement for a plant on
the Sydney coast at Kurnell in 2004, a decision reversed a few months
later by Iemma after outrage from locals and activists focused on its
high energy bill and greenhouse footprint.

By comparison, Perth's Water Corporation has relatively effortlessly
brought on line its first desalination unit, with a second proposed for
2009.

But as the new suite of reports points out, whether it's tapping into
rivers to buy water, recycling waste water or desalinating sea water,
are all options that depend on specific economics and environmental
conditions.

Outside my window girl? lemme see!! the ducks are quackin, its going to
be NINTY DEEEGREES TODAY in hillbillyhell and a grade school student
stepped on a rattlesnake yesterday on the playground in town. OH! and
friday i am going to chapparone a whole bus load of screaming excited
youngins at the zoo.
Pray for me hey?!

I didnt abandon your thread jess, I am just super busy. Im thinking
about it and dropping in to stay abreast of comments. sorry but I have
to make it through another week of finals. maybe tonight see ya and read
ya.
Peace,,,

Oh yea, did anyone see Mt Etna erupting this morning.....?

Many years ago there was quite a lot of talk about water recycling. I
don't know, remember why, it may have been local. But the theory at
that time was also considered an unbearible solution. There was also
talk about the possibilty of desalinating, but at the time technology
was not up to the challenge. To be honest I have not made any inquiries
into this, but I'm not sure there have been a whole lot of advancements.

Now in my mind, if you're going to take ocean water, and desalinate it
and purify it, how much different is that from recycling? Think about
it - all manner of things live and die in that water, not to meantion
any polutants that ships and shore line populations add to it.

Then there is always another possiblility. Whatever fresh water supply
there is can be fed directly to home and business internal "drinking
supply" faucets. Water to be used for drinking and cooking. Then,
what if there was a seperate plumbing source that directly fed toilets,
washing machines, outside faucets with the recycled or desalinated
water?

It's obvious that there would be expence incurred to build or adapt the
water utility companies, and towns, villages, homes would incur plumbing
expense. Of all of these I think the hardest part would be the laws,
that would oversee the proper maintenance of the utility companies as
well as the proper use and connections of both water supplies.

Perhaps using a combination of all the thought processes, conservation,
desalinating, recycling and proper and adequit plumbing, might even be
something of a study. So let's envision that enough other countries'
citizens and governments are made to understand the extreme nature of
the problem. If one country, such as Australia were to volunteer to be
a test program, maybe other governments, pushed by the citizens, would
be willing to contribute some funds toward the testing. Constant
updates of all the pitfalls, the stumbling blocks and their resolutions,
would be worthy of the contributions. For it would provide the basis
for other countries to formulate, at less cost for themselves, their own
conservation applications.

If normal citizens of every globalized portion of the world were made
aware of our declining fresh water supply, and if there were someplace
attempting to delay the inevitable, we might all have something to work
on together.

I just briefly reviewd the thread TLW started where he explains what the
Copenhagen Consnsus Project is. Now here might be the connection for
funding as a test site for the water reclamations program.

Interesting how two different topics can come together like a
crossroads.

I guess for me at least, is how do normal everyday citizens ever hear
about such events, and how do we make our comments, our suggestions
heard?

Who puts together the topics and the forums on the United Nations, and
who contributes the input to these topics? And how can we request to
keep posted on these updates? Too many questions, I wish I understoon
the whole process better.

Good morning, Red,

All good information, and for coastal cities, and even towns for utility
water through de-sal and recycled grey water, however for inland towns
not on a sewerage/grey water reclamation system....harder to supply..

and still their is the issue of water for irrigation, for food ..the
Murray Darling river system for the first time in history, has four of
the five states it supplies looking at reclaiming irrigation credits
from farmers...

and this river system is fed through the Snowy Mountain River
system...and has a huge catchment area...

Point being, rainfall has been down on averages for a very long time..