Ok, the only thing I am going to say about the topic, is that I agree it
is easier to understand, when written in different terms; I only hope
that fi you rewrite it you can ALWAYS keep the original message intact,
like it was done here

Now to Jean and Abra both. You are bnoth acting like children who have
to have the last word. Abra I agree with you that Jean has been
following you around and such, I have seen signs of it myself. Although
others have done so as well, myself included when I find your talking
about something I liike to talk about. It happens sometimes. Jean,
You made a statment about "if abra would... then this would be the end
fo it." If I remember correctly you stated if he would own up and
apologize. he has no reason to apologize in here as he has not attacked
anyone.
For Abra, if you are that tired of her hounding after you (which I would
be too from what I have seen) simply block her. That will end it right
then (jean I am not trying to talk anyone into blocking you
specifically. I clearly state that if HE does not like what you are
saying or doing, then HE canblock you so he does not have to see it).

And Jean, if you do not like hwat he is syaing then dont read his posts.
Like you said, you are not being forced to do anything. So dont read
posts from someone you disagree with so vehemently. And if YOU find HIM
inslting or whatever, then you canblock him as well. That is why we
have the optoin to block.

Now, please, can we all stop the childish arguing, and trying to get the
last word in edgewise, so we can get back to the original subject?
Thank You.

Daniel wrote:
“For Abra, if you are that tired of her hounding after you (which I
would be too from what I have seen) simply block her.”

I wasn’t aware that I could do that. Thanks for the heads-up. I’ve
already apologized to her umpteen times and that hasn’t produced any
results. So I’ll look into the blocking feature.

Thank you.

it is my understanding abra, that when blocked, you will nt recieve
anything in your email or the forums from the person blocked; although I
COULD be wrong too.

If my replying to statements made by him which are replying directly to
statements made by me, that constitutes "following him around?"

Whatever.

I don't feel as though I'm arguing with him. I'm merely stating that he
belittles people for what they believe and Jane Bond said it, too, as
well as others have stated that to me in private emails.

I feel as though if someone has the right to insult people, others
should have the right to protest that. That is my entire point. Nothing
more, nothing less.

Comments like yours that are unfounded simply add fuel to a fire that
was never there to begin with.

Not to mention, Daniel, if you think he hasn't insulted anyone, then you
must be blind. As I said, I'm not the only one who sees it.

Not to mention, he has no reason to "block" me, as I've not written him
any emails.

If he has the right to belittle people (in general) for their beliefs,
then I have the right to rebut!

Sorry about the mix-up with the blocking feature. I misunderstood the
way it is written when you go into blocked, under mail. I took it to
meanwhenit said you will not receive any correspondance to mean the
forums as well.

hey scttr, are there any more texts that have been rewritten like that?
i would be curious to see them

Sheila wrote;
“If you stop insulting people, and own up to it, instead of proclaiming
total "innocence," then that would be the end of this discussion.”

I don’t believe that voicing my view that the Bible is logically
inconsistent and makes irrational claims is a personal insult to anyone.
They didn’t write the Bible.

Moreover, they have a choice. They can either be insulted by my view,
which is basically to give it credence. Or they can offer their own
sound reasons why they believe the Bible is logically consistent and
rational.

This is the nature of debate Sheila. What good is a forum without
debate?

Einstein said that men who need religion for moral values are ‘in a poor
way’

I say they are ‘pathetic’

So I’m insulting people and Einstein is not?

I don’t buy that.

If it’s alight for Einstein to say it, then it should be alright for me
to say it too.

I’ve already clearly stated several times that it’s not my intent to
insult anyone on a personal level. I’m addressing topics only. And
I’ve already apologized umpteen times to anyone who takes my views as a
personal insult. I just don’t know what more can be said. So I'll just
leave it at that.

Thanks for responding Abra. I understand what you say, about kids
forced to attend church. It's just not Christian or Catholic
parents/famalies that do that. Being raised Catholic, I was "made" to go
to church, was baptized, the whole nine yards, as a very yound child.
Being a child, I had no knowledge, view or opinion of anything other
than what I was being raised as. Many kids were raised as I was, with
the parents/family raising their children according to what they were
raised as. I am still believing, as an adult and certainly do not
apologize or shame for it. I cannot quote random pages or text from the
Bible or have a debate about it. Nor do I live each and every word
literally as stated in the Bible. I would hope that makes me less of a
believer of what is important to me.

That was long ago and much has changed within the family, society and
the world. Most children raised in that manner are now, as adults, open
minded, flexible, educated, understanding of diversity and aware of
other faiths, views and opinions, options, etc. and raise/would raise
their children in a more diverse manner than we were. I am sure there
are some that carry on the family tradition with no understanding,
acceptance or tolerance for anything other than their own faith.

I am also sure some have turned their back on God and their faith
because that way is not in agreeance (is that a word, lol) with their
life choices or way of life and hold it against everyone who does
believe. Or, converted to something else, or nothing at all, as an
adult, because we are now responsible for our selves, and have the
ability and right to make our own decisions. I have friends who are
teaching their children of the different faiths and do not "force" them
to a specific faith, are allowing them to deicde for themselves when
they become young adults. I think Jess spoke of such a manner, with her
children. If I'm wrong, sorry Jess. Far too many threads and posts to
troll back on to confirm, but am pretty certain you had.

my whole take on the ten commandments is they are all the things that
cause fighting and war and that if you find spirituality within yourself
,you will automatically convey that to others.I dont see why nliving by
the 10 commandments would be such a terrible thing.

No, you didn't call anyone out by name and call them ignorant. But you
stated that people who believe in God and the Bible are ignorant ..you
stated they were duped, you stated that it was pathetic that they
believe in certain things, etc.

You can "claim" a tree is a basketball, too, but it doesn't make it so.

The thing is, I agree with a lot of your viewpoints in general...but
because I am a Christian (though not a "devout" one, nonetheless), I DO
take personal offense to someone claiming that I (by virtue of the fact
that I am one) is being duped or is somehow "ingnorant."

All I ask is that you state your views without calling people ignorant
for believing what they want to believe.

Sheila wrote;
“All I ask is that you state your views without calling people ignorant
for believing what they want to believe.”

Fair enough. I’ll try my best in future posts to be as tactful as
possible.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

You know, the history of religion is interesting.

I googled the ten commandments and then went to wikipedia to read the
articles.

There is so much to know...

Islam (Submission to the will of God) is the same and only religion
ever given to the human race. It is the religion of Noah, Abraham,
Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus, Muhammad
and all the other messengers mentioned or not mentioned in the
scripture. The Ten Commandments as we see them here are not any more
than the same message given to the prophet Muhammad .

The Ten Commandments
(Exodus 12: 1-17 & Deuteronomy 5: 6-21) Confirmation in the Quran
(Chapter: Verse)

1. Thou shall not take any
God except one God.

(1). "There is no other god
beside GOD,"(47:19)

2. Thou shall make no
image of God.

(2). There is nothing that
equals (like) Him. (42:11)
"My Lord, make this a peaceful
land, and protect me and my
children from worshiping idols.
(14:35)

3. Thou shall not use
God's name in vain.

(3). Do not subject GOD's name
to your casual swearing, that
you may appear righteous, pious,
or to attain credibility
among the people. (2:224)

4. Thou shall honor thy
mother and father.

(4). .....and your parents shall be
honored. As long as one or
both of them live, you shall
never say to them, "Uff"
(the slightest gesture of annoyance),
nor shall you shout at them; you
shall treat them amicably. (17:23)

5. Thou shall not steal.

(5). The thief, male or female, you
shall mark their hands as
a punishment for their crime, and
to serve as an example from GOD.
GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
(5:38 - 39)

6. Thou shall not lie or give
false testimony.

(6). ...... incur GOD's condemnation
upon him, if he was lying. (24:7)
Do not withhold any testimony
by concealing what you had
witnessed. Anyone who withholds
a testimony is sinful at heart. (2:283)

7. Thou shall not kill.

(7). ....anyone who murders any person
who had not committed murder or
horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he
murdered all the people. (5:32)

8. Thou shall not commit adultery.

()8). You shall not commit adultery;
it is a gross sin, and an evil behavior.
(17:32)

9. Thou shall not covet thy neighbors
wife or possessions.

(9), You shall regard the parents, the
relatives, the orphans, the poor, the
related neighbor, the unrelated neighbor,
the close associate, the traveling alien,
and your servants. (4:36)

10. Thou shall keep the Sabbath holy.
The Sabbath was relinquished with the
revelation of the Quran.

The Sabbath Abrogated
[16:124] The Sabbath was decreed only
for those who ended up disputing it (Jews &
Christians). Your Lord is the One who will
judge them on the Day of Resurrection
regarding their disputes.
God, however, ordered us to make every
effort and drop all businesses to attend the
congregational (Friday) prayer. The Submitters
may tend to their business during the rest of
the day.

10. O you who believe, when the
Congregational Prayer (Salat
Al-Jumu`ah) is announced on Friday,
you shall hasten to the commemoration
of GOD, and drop all business. . (62:9)

We don't have a corner on The Ten Commandments.

oops, I forgot to put parenthesis around the Curans Tenth Commandment.
Sorry.

Just in case anyone is confused. I have put the Commandments of the Holy
Bible and the Commandments of the Curan right underneath each other.

Abra, you know I appreciate you and your knowledge of words. However you
tend to use words with multiple meanings. Making it difficult to
distinguish what is truly meant.

Your words are strong, and can be harmful to someone seeking some kind
of guidance. To someone settled in their own beliefs, we are not swayed.
But, for those that are looking for something to believe in, you leave
little for a mind that is unsettled to argue with. Maybe argue isn't the
right word. You can be very convincing to a weaker person in "search
of"?

I am getting better aquainted with how you feel and think on these
issues. You're spiritual, and I know this. But, to assume anyone with a
value leaning in Gods direction(of our choosing), is less than, or
immenently wrong in thinking, is a let down. You very eloquently use
words in careful comparison, in order to try and make us feel like we
are not in our right minds for having our beliefs on the Bible or God. I
assure you my friend, I am in my right mind and am not gullable or weak.
I am a believer, not a church going religious fanatic. I have no named
religion.

I did not find my God through church. I found God in my life, or lack
of. HIS presense was shown to me through healing and a changed life,
mind and heart.

I was never made to go to church. I was never made aware of a real God.
Not until I was ready to recieve. I do wish I had, had a teaching of
some kind as a child though. I may not have had to go through some of
the life lessons that I indured. Maybe...

Before I was a believer, I had no tomorrow. I had no today. I had only
yesterday. Today was dreaded, tomorrow was only a figment.

Now I live life that yesterday was a lesson, today is to be lived, and
tomorrow is a gift.

From my heart to you Abra.

Kat

We talk about what is right and what is wrong. But has anyone thought of
the fact one mans floor is another mans roof? What may seem rightous to
some may be evil to others.
Do you really think that the 9/11 highjackers though that their actions
were completely wrong and did it anyways? Bull ****!!!!!

they were on a crusade that they believe was rightous do to the fact
that the west has surrprest them for generations.

Just food for thought.


OK may the bashing begin. I can take it really.

Scttrbrain wrote:
“I did not find my God through church. I found God in my life, or lack
of. HIS presense was shown to me through healing and a changed life,
mind and heart.”

Well, if this is true, then how and why did you become affiliated with
the Christian religion?

Scttrbrain wrote:
“Your words are strong, and can be harmful to someone seeking some kind
of guidance.”

I beg your pardon, but anyone who genuinely understands what I am saying
will most certainly not be harmed. On the contrary they will come to
know god directly without any need to drag any religions into that
relationship.

just gotta post this
----------------------
Artist: Genesis
Song: Jesus he knows me
Album: We Can'T Dance
[" We Can'T Dance " CD]

You see the face on the TV screen
coming at you every Sunday
see that face on the billboard
that man is me

On the cover of the magazine
there's no question why I'm smiling
you buy a piece of paradise
you buy a piece of me

I'll get you everything you wanted
I'll get you everything you need
don't need to believe in hereafter
just believe in me

Cos Jesus he knows me
and he knows I'm right
I've been talking to Jesus all my life
oh yes he knows me
and he knows I'm right
and he's been telling me
everything is alright

I believe in the family
with my ever loving wife beside me
but she don't know about my girlfriend
or the man I met last night

Do you believe in God
cos that's what I'm selling
and if you wanna get to heaven
I'll see you right

You won't even have to leave your house
or get outta your chair
you don't even have to touch that dial
cos I'm everywhere

And Jesus he knows me
and he knows I'm right
I've been talking to Jesus all my life
oh yes he knows me
and he knows I'm right
well he's been telling me
everything's gonna be alright

Won't find me practising what I'm preaching
won't find me making no sacrifice
but I can get you a pocketful of miracles
if you promise to be good, try to be nice
God will take good care of you
just do as I say, don't do as I do

I'm counting my blessings,
I've found true happiness
cos I'm getting richer, day by day
you can find me in the phone book,
just call my toll free number
you can do it anyway you want
just do it right away

There'll be no doubt in your mind
you'll believe everything I'm saying
if you wanna get closer to him
get on your knees and start paying

Cos Jesus he knows me
and he knows I'm right
I've been talking to Jesus all my life
oh yes he knows me
and he knows I'm right
well he's been telling me
everything's gonna be alright, alright

Jesus he knows me
Jesus he knows me, you know...
-----------------

kinda sums up why some feel the way they do
about organised religion