People beleave in god for one thing, and one thing alone. To beleave
that their life isnt just an illusion. If this all powerfull god was all
so great, he wouldnt of have let humans have free will. The fact that he
let 9-11 occure and for war to claim billions of lives over the past
4000 years of human existance is wrong all in its self. Drug lords
springing into action and selling crack to kids... Let alone, let 12
year old girls get pregnant by 60 year old pervert rapists. Beleavers
have one upper hand over non-beleavers.... Non-beleavers have everything
to lose for not beleaving..... Beleavers do not. If there isnt a god,
they are worm food like everyone else..... But on the other hand, if
there is one.... They have salvation. Non-beleavers go to hell. Thats
why i envy the beleavers.... I just hope that there isnt a god.. because
if there is one... He is one screwed up f*cker.


Not trying to change your religion or anything, just posting my point of
view... In fact, i fully suport all religions it gives people a way to
cope with the pain of existance.

(excuse my spelling errors.)

Oh, so no1 replies?

How does one reply to a statement?

There was no question asked to respond to...makes it a bit hard.

Why should anyone reply? You seem to have all the answers already.

you answered your own statement,,Free will, he gave us the choice to
make wether right or wrong its our choice and we cannot blame anyone
else for the choices we do make

Idk, i just thought people would post there thoughts about my idea. Good
or bad.

well, right off the bat, your first statement statements are wrong.
People don't believe in God "for one reason and one reason only...to
believe that their life is not just an illusion."

For one thing, do you think life IS just "an illusion?" I don't.

Hey Hubey,

You ask the question that everyone asks themselves at some point. I will
throw out my personal answer that came to me a couple years ago. Your
milage may vary, exclusions and black out dates may apply, tickets are
non-refundable.

When my daughter was born I understood why fukced up things happen in a
fukced up world, to good ppl, and to bad ppl. When we had rushed to the
hospital to give birth, I had the understanding that this child could be
butt-ugly, horrible person, and might even become a person worse than
hitler. But, still I loved her - sight unseen. Future unknown. The
ability to create life, and cherish life became the understanding
moment.

It isnt about being "all powerful", no more than comparing my personal
"power" to give/take the newborn's life. If I thought enough about the
future, and the hardships she will endure, and the chances that she
might get raped, murdered, disfigured in a car accident or terrorist
plot - or worse, that SHE would do these things - would I have
terminated the baby? NO WAY. Chance, hope, and the unknown - thats why
we love, thats why we give life, and thats why sometimes we must take
life.

In summary, I beleive this understanding is an insight into the mind of
God. Life is given for the sake of love, what we do with it, and what we
do to others, is our choice. Our responsibility. But its still a
precious gift.

Mike, I love the idea of what you just said. But if "God" has the power
to make all things posible... He MUST have the way to see the furture,
yes? He would see the corrupt and the awesome.... He would see the good
and the bad... but wouldnt he want to keep the good and take out the
bad? Why would someone keep such high standards for humanity but allow
the evil of sin to occure?

ihjb

I dont understand what "Ihjb" meens.

A parent forsee's all the bad that will happen to their child. A parent
knows full well, even before birth, that there will be many boo-boos,
scraped knees, bad report cards, bad words, defiant behavior, arguments,
broken hearts... all these things WE can reasonably forsee - and yet, we
are fully willing to stand behind the child anyway.

Even knowing these things would we choose it any other way? Would we
want to construct a future so perfect that no harm will happen to our
children? No. Because then it wouldnt be THEIR future. Parents have to
establish a framework, offer advice, and eventually hand the reigns
over.

I would say God does the same for us. Lets say, for argument sake, he
"Knows" the future, and could "do something" about it, but, for the
reasons listed above, would he move to do something? Why should he -
Creation is YOURS, life is YOURS - you have the power to make the
future. Its your responsibility, for the same reasons that a parent
allows their child to do something that will potentially harm
themselves.

Parents take care of their children.

"Parents take care of their children"

<grin> Good point. Not much I can offer as a counter point other than to
say "we got everything we need to run the place, so its our
responsibility & problem". We're not pets, or children.

If you looked at my life and knew the things that I've been through you
would know that there's a God!!! I have been molested ( by females and
males), raped, abused, suicidal, confused, depressed, on drugs.I used to
be an Athiest until God revealed himself to me. I thank God that truth
has been revealed. I don't why you're an athiest but what I do know is
why I used to be one. I felt as though to many terrible things happened
to an innocent 7 year old little girl who endured suffering and pain.
There couldn't have been a God because if it was these things wouldn't
have happened. I use to curse God not knowing I was really cursing
myself. Alot of people feel as if there is no hope. it's hard for them
to face reality. good things can not come out of the bad... But that's a
lie! After all the psychiatric visits and hospitalizations and
treatments I still was hurt and deeply wounded. It was the prayers of my
mother that kept me alive. satan tried his best to destroy me but he
couldn't beacause God wouldn't let him. God also proved a point that no
matter what we go through in this life he is the one and only solution
to every problem. I gave my life to Christ and he changed me. I have so
many testimonies and I 'm going to used them to bring every lost soul to
the light. I pray that God has mercy on your soul for cursing him. I
also pray that truth will set you free. If you ever have any questions
I'm here!God Bless!!!

Hubey, I don't recall seeing you around these parts, so just for the
record, I am an athiest. And here's my view of what you said.

It seems your point takes the stand that those who believe in a higher
power should pity those who don't. That's certainly not the responce I
EVER want to have from any monothiest.

Second, look at the reply that Mechela has posted. I would not deny her
the peace she says she has found at last. I can be happy that she, and
others, have found a way to make their lives easier to cope with.
People become more productive in any society when there is peace in
their heart.

Now the poor agnostic, just might be the one we all need to extend
sympathy too. They sit on a fence looking from one side to the other
and the only thing in their mind is 'BUT WHAT IF'.

What peace can be found in the heart of one whose only concern is a
fearful 'but what if'.

Hubey,

I perfectly understand where you are coming from because I was once
there myself. There was a time in my life when I felt that if the God
depicted by Christianity does indeed exist then it must be one hell of a
unsympathetic devil.

However, I continued forward with my torn and tattered feelings about
‘god’. I never really wanted to give up on the idea of the existence
of a ‘god’ and I put that in quotes because what I really didn’t want
to give up on was a higher meaning associated with life.

To me, to atheism just never ‘hit the spot’. By that I mean there was a
two-fold problem with it.

First, it meant that when we die it’s just lights out. Well, to me
it’s not a fear of ceasing to exists that bothers me. It’s the
philosophical idea that if we just black out when we die and that’s
that, then we may have never lived at all. If you just black out when
you die and that’s that, then it doesn’t matter when you die because
after your dead you’re not going to care. So since you don’t care at
that point in time then it won’t matter if you die right now because
after your dead you won’t care. In short, after your dead you may as
well have never lived at all. After your dead it doesn’t make any
difference whether you had lived for a day or a million days. It’s
totally irrelevant once you die. So in that sense life is completely
meaningless. No point in living it at all if you can’t care about it
when it’s over. This is especially true if you’re particularly enjoying
your life. Why not just turn it off if you’re not enjoying it?

The second problem with being an atheist is that this makes you
completely separate from everyone else in the egotistical sense. You
are TOTALLY ALONE if you are an atheist. Oh sure, you may have other
friends who are also completely separate little egos who will also
extinguish when their time is up. But fundamentally if three is no
spiritual aspect to reality then ultimately we are all just separate
little extinguishable egos. Would it matter if you extinguished one of
them? No, not at all. Why not? Well go back to the FIRST problem with
atheism. If when you kill someone they just black out and don’t even
KNOW that they are dead how is that hurting them? They no longer exist
to be hurt. Why feel sorry for something that doesn’t even know that
it had every lived?

Of course, atheists could argue against torture because this is
something that is being experienced whilst the person is still alive.
But to kill someone who just blacks out can’t hurt them because they
won’t even KNOW that they are dead. They won’t know that they had ever
lived. And if they don’t now know anything then having killed them is
totally meaningless.

In short, if you’re an atheist life has no meaning but in the moment,
and even then it’s a cold lonely moment philosophically speaking.

So does this prove that there must be a god? No of course not. Life
very well could be cold and meaningless. That *could* be the truth.

However, it does lead one to investigate other possible scenarios.
Well, one of those possibilities is to believe in ancient superstitious
dogmas like Christianity. To believe in those superstitious dogmas
requires a leap of faith to simply accept that the dogma is true. Most
people who do that cherish the doctrine of that religion to be the ‘word
of God’. And that book (the Bible) is their guide.

However, as you point out, you already have serious problems with that
type of ‘Santa Claus in the sky’ type of God. If God is so almighty why
does he allow all these terrible things to occur. And what’s with this
devil creature? If God is all-powerful why doesn’t he just put the
devil in his place. Why should this devil be able to be at ‘war’ with a
supposedly ‘all-powerful’ God? Something’s terribly wrong with this
picture! Either God is NOT all-powerful, or he’s being some kind of
jerk to allow the devil to play these nasty games. Either way, things
are not looking good for this supposedly all-powerful God.

Well he’s a truth for you. There are other quite legitimate ways to
think of god. It’s not just a matter of choosing between pure Atheism
or a dogmatic religion like Christianity. There are other possible
scenarios.

One of those possible scenarios is offered to us by the universe itself.
By simply studying the universe and realizing that we have actually
evolved out of it we can know with certainty that we are not ‘separate’
little thingies. We are actually very much a part of this universe in
every way imaginable including our ability to perceive. There are ways
that ‘god’ can exist without being a ‘Santa Claus in the sky’. No need
for a devil, or even any concept of ‘evil’ at all. What you see as
being ‘evil’ has legitimate explanations.

I’ll point you to my post in other thread for a brief abstract view of
god that does not include Christianity. Keep in mind that it is indeed
an abstract (a very brief outline of the idea) but it shows us that we
can have everlasting life via reincarnation and not be separate little
ego thingies that extinguish when we die. The idea of why there is no
‘evil’ is not addressed in that post but it can be fully explained.

Anyway, rather than retyping that whole post here I’ll just give you a
link to it. It’s my only post on page 4 of that thread.

http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/20021?page=4

I hope this will at least help you to understand that the Christian view
of god is not the only view available.

You don’t need to just limit your choices between either Christianity or
Atheism you can actually know god directly just by realizing your true
nature.

God IS great.

Iam just me... a small bit of dust upon the vast universe. God is
greater than am I... He is that universe.

God IS great.

Iam within him and can therefore see him... to the limit of my vision.
God is greater than am I... for that universe is greater than my vision
will ever be in this lifetime.

God IS great.

Iam

Therefore god is...

Hubey, as an atheist I find it very hard to understand the concept of
religion. Trust me I have tried for many years, but just could not grab
a hold of it. I do not understand how so many people can sit there and
worship something they can not even prove exists! I mean they may have
there ideas and stuff but there is no hard core facts out there that
prove anything.

I think people believe in it because they are looking for a purpose in
there own life. They are just looking for some sort of mean in there
lives. I do not know. People look for acceptance and truth. How they can
try to even begin to find that through some sort of unknown being is
beyond me. I think they are just lost looking to be found some how and
find this is just an easy out.

People have there own mind and should be able to think anyway they want.
Which means (as I see it) that they should be thinking for them selves.
Not trying to find answers through a superficial thing.

If this "God" Did exist then all the BS in this world would not. If he
was this almighty thing, then why is there so much anger out there? If
he was this great "God" then why did he not make it so we though like
him if we were mad in HIS "image". If he did that do you not think the
world would be better off? It makes no sense to me it never will either.
People can fight me over it until they are blue in the face and I will
still continue to believe what I believe.

And I have said it before on here and I will say it again, those people
that say they have seen his works, to me are just so caught up in all of
this mumble jumble, that there mind tricks them into think it. It is all
a matter of mind over body.

But this is just one girls opinion.

Let me tell u why their is a God and the g in God is capitalized ..
first of all did u ever wonder why u were born .. or why u were placed
on this earth ? God made u if you want answers go and get a bible and go
to a biblical church ..did u know that Jesus died on the cross for all
the sins of the world ,, get the movie the passion and see for your
self,,,