Thankyou Daniel, I appreciate it, and I am of exactly the same
sentiment...everyone has my respect in sharing their thoughts, ideas,
opinions, information, and all I ask is it is reciprocated...

Respect the person, formost, and their opinion as theirs, even if you
don't agree with their opinion...is all I ask, and what I will give.

Thank you Jess, and I am glad you were still on to see my posting here

Iwas gonna chase ya down and emailya if you didnt see it, lol...

do you have anything you would like to put in here as far as the
legality issues of the iraq war? Again not whetehr you agree with it,
but maybe something that I have not heard before about wat really
ahppened oris happening and can be proven or disproven

I am unfamiliar with your politics, which is why I read these threads,
to learn more about, to understand why we, and I have to say we, (as
John Howard our prime Minister is sending more and more of our troops to
more and more places around the globe)are even involved at the magnitude
we are, for a country who has a population of just over 17 million, and
without the financial resources of your country.

So Daniel, no, I don't have evidence, or information to add at this
point...

WOW!!!
someone who actually stands u pand states they have no facts or
opinions. That was a very nice breath of fresh air Jess, thank you!!!!

kinda funny how dems and republicans have changed spots over the years.

it took a republican (lincoln) to help to free "all men"

it took a dem (roosevelt) to enter the US into a war that killed more
people than the world had ever seen up until that point in history.

republican for big business- well i can see how you would think that
without a strong grasp of economics.... remember this with out them
there would be no employment for us americans to work.

i dont want to live in a socialist society where everyone worked for
everyone else, you'd work your azz off so that others can work less. the
people who make the most in this country do in fact pay the most in
taxes, but your class envy does not allow you to open your eyes to that
one sad little fact, im sorry that your life hasnt worked out the way
you wanted but dont blame others for your unfortunate circumstances. go
back to school, work another job, save your monney, throw away your
instant credit credit cards and try again.


doc

"do find it
immoral, barbaric and senseless, however. I cannot believe we can't find
SOME way to resolve our differences without resorting to violence"

This is why I thought you might not be willing to fight or go to war if
neccesdary to protect yourself or loved ones Jean. And in your
rebuttal, you did not come out and say wether you would fight or not.
You just asked why people make such ridiculous questions about your
posts. Your phrase up top here, definitely states you donot agree with
violence/war and want to do anything other than to solve all problems.
I garee we should try diplomacy first always. We DID try dilpomacy with
Saddam. he made a mockery ofit,a nd id not do anything the world
leaders demanded. He continued to produce wmd's and transport them out
of country. In this case diplomacy was a waste of breathe, and
furitless in preventing anopther 9/11 or pearl harbor or whatever battle
you wanna remember.

and the fact that now the oil reserves of that country are being turned
over to the large oil corps of the world had nothing to do with the
"rush to war"...right...

easter bunnie & santa are knocking at my front door...

Ummm lets see.

We are turning over what 'reserves' to big corporations.

The oil is gone or nearly so and the US government has known that it
would be since the 1950's.

So what exactly are they fightin over? Empty holes? The last sip of
the slurpy?

AB as always a voice of logic and reason. thank you.

from Iraqoillaw dot com

According to the Bush Administration, the notion that the occupation of
Iraq invasion was a means to gain control over that country’s vast oil
reserves is “nonsense” and “a myth.” However, in February, 2007, the
proposed draft of a new law to structure Iraq’s oil industry was leaked,
and it is now being considered by the Iraqi parliament. Several key
features of the law would:

Allow two-thirds of Iraq’s oil fields to be developed by private oil
corporations. In contrast, the oil industry has been nationalized in
every other major Middle Eastern producer for over 30 years.
Place governing decisions over oil in a new body known as the Iraqi
Federal Oil and Gas Council, which may include foreign oil companies;
Open the door for foreign oil companies to lock up decades-long deals
now, when the Iraqi government is at its weakest.
Overall, the law would secure the agenda of ExxonMobil, Chevon, and the
other majors, robbing the Iraqi people of their most basic source of
wealth. Much is at stake. With 115 billion barrels of proven reserves
($7 trillion worth at $64 per barrel) and another 215 billion possible
or likely ($14 trillion), there’s nearly a million dollars of oil for
every Iraqi citizen. It’s a vast and precious national resource—but only
if Iraqis are allowed to control it themselves.

you can bet pressure is being brought to put big oil in the drivers
seat..

Daniel wrote:
“Abra, if you honestly believe saddam hussein was not all that bad, and
that he was so with the united states, or the western world, and if you
believe he "tolerated" anything other than himself and his own fancies,
you need to go back and do some more research.”

I think you misread my post. I said that the people in the far east
(India and China) see it that way.

I know that he wasn’t ‘with’ the United States. But I also don’t
believe that he was nearly the threat that he was made out to be either.
He just didn’t have the technology to be a threat to the USA.

I was vehemently against the invasion of Iraq for all the months that
led up to it after 9/11.

I wasn’t saying that nothing needed to be done about Saddam. That’s not
the point.

All I’m saying is that invading Iraq at that point in time with world
opinion against us and basically in completely defiance of the UN was
utterly stupid.

It wasn’t so much the act of invading Iraq that was so bad. It was the
utterly stupid way that Bush went about it. He basically told the rest
of the world to fuk off, and just invaded Iraq on his own.

It was the stupidest political move any president of the USA has ever
made in all of history. He could have achieved much better results
with just a little bit of patience and a lot of diplomacy (Diplomacy
with our allies, not with Saddam!)

bravo Abra...

Top World Oil Net Exporters, 2005*
(OPEC members in italics)


Country
Net Oil Exports
(million barrels per day)

1)
Saudi Arabia
9.1

2)
Russia
6.7

3)
Norway
2.7

4)
Iran
2.6

5)
United Arab Emirates
2.4

6)
Nigeria
2.3

7)
Kuwait
2.3

8)
Venezuela
2.2

9)
Algeria
1.8

10)
Mexico
1.7

11)
Libya
1.5

12)
Iraq
1.3

13)
Angola
1.2

14)
Kazakhstan
1.1

15)
Qatar
1.0

*Table includes all countries with net exports exceeding 1 million
barrels per day in 2005.




Top World Oil Producers, 2005*
(OPEC members in italics)


Country
Total Oil Production**
(million barrels per day)

1)
Saudi Arabia
11.1

2)
Russia
9.5

3)
United States
8.2

4)
Iran
4.2

5)
Mexico
3.8

6)
China
3.8

7)
Canada
3.1

8)
Norway
3.0

9)
United Arab Emirates
2.8

10)
Venezuela
2.8

11)
Kuwait
2.7

12)
Nigeria
2.6

13)
Algeria
2.1

14)
Brazil
2.0

*Table includes all countries total oil production exceeding 2 million
barrels per day in 2005.
**Total Oil Production includes crude oil, natural gas liquids,
condensate, refinery gain, and other liquids.

but the problem is abra that the rest of the world as you put it was not
interested in forcing sanctions or action with saddam. They wanted to
continue being led around by their noses avoiding seeing the realities
of what was really going on. There comes a time when you have to stand
up for yourself and or what is right wether everyone else agrees with
you or not.

Consumption (Millions of barrels per day):
Top 20 Countries


United States: 19.993
Japan: 5.423
China: 4.854
Germany: 2.814
Russia: 2.531
South Korea: 2.126
Brazil: 2.123
Canada: 2.048
France: 2.040
India: 2.011
Mexico: 1.932
Italy: 1.881
United Kingdom: 1.699
Spain: 1.465
SaudiArabia: 1.415
Iran: 1.109
Indonesia: 1.063
Netherlands: .881
Australia: .879
Taiwan: .846


There is the problem with oil...

As you can see the US does not export any oil we use all ours and then
sill need ..........

Need is the problem.............

oops reserves...

Reserves (millions of barrels as of January 1, 2002):
Top 20 countries


Saudi Arabia: 261,750
Iraq: 112,500
United Arab Emirates: 97,800
Kuwait: 96,500
Iran: 89,700
Venezuela: 77,685
Russia: 48,573
Libya: 29,500
Mexico: 26,941
Nigeria: 24,000
China: 24,000
United States: 22,045
Qatar: 15,207
Norway: 9,947
Algeria: 9,200
Brazil: 8,465
Oman: 5,506
Kazakhstan: 5,417
Angola: 5,412
Indonesia: 5,000

just #'s they dont and arent meant to imply anything....

fanta you missed or neglected to throw in the other numbers...
which numbers? well the US importation of oil and rate them in order of
amount imported from each country,m and by the way the US does in fact
export our oil as well.



doc

so in an attempt to show where the US imports oil from , thought i would
show you the commerce departments numbers- ranked in amount provided by
for the last tens years, numbers are in millions and from 1997 thru
2006. hopefully this will ease up the retoric on war for oil.

Canada-392,437,462,430,492,495,527,565,590,600
Mexico-441,496,482,458,479,509,548,580,584,566
Saudi -456,472,512,506,556,588,554,629,547,525
Venezuela-476,509,503,420,446,471,438,436,473,449
Nigeria-217,251,251,227,319,307,215,306,389,387
Iraq-(n/a),32,123,265,226,290,168,171,238,190
Angola-126,155,170,130,108,113,117,132,112,164
Ecuador- 35,42,36,42,46,41,37,50,83,101
Algeria-3,2,4,9,(NA),4,11,41,79,83
United Kingdom-79,62,59,104,106,89,148,127,86,80
Kuwait- 86,92,110,90,96,87,79,75,88,79
Russia-7,1,3,8,3,0,31,54,55,70
Colombia-82,99,127,165,116,95,86,59,51,57
Gabon -67,84,76,61,52,51,52,48,52,47
Norway-107,105,81,96,110,103,127,60,54,43
Brazil-0,0,0,0,2,5,21,17,19,34
Trinidad and Tobago-21,20,19,15,20,19,25,25,18,23
Argentina-(NA)(NA)(NA)(NA)(NA)(NA)(NA),20,21,21
Libya-0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,7,16
China-21,18,15,5,12,5,7,5,5,9
Indonesia-16,19,18,26,13,15,18,10,12,7
Malaysia-2,3,9,8,11,5,3,8,7,4
Australia-9,11,11,11,18,12,19,9,8,4