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Topic: Something from Nothing ??.
no photo
Tue 02/10/09 09:40 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 02/10/09 10:31 AM
WOW. Now I have come to a point in deductive reasoning that I need to define "something" as apposed to "nothing" because they are beginning to look like the same thing on the quantum level.

It happened last night when I realized, via dreams and my subconscious, that nothing can actually be measured in the micro "quantum" world except within a specifically chosen quantum state, defined by the observer.

But forget about that. I have finally reached the paradox I have been reading about in mystical teachings for so long, and not understanding.

I have been on the side of the fence that "nothing" cannot "exist" because I was defining "something" as being something that can be seen and measured.

But the paradox of the lack of ability to truly quantify (measure) anything on the micro level states that "nothing exists."

So the paradox is, We don't exist.

Yet here we are.

In looking at what exists, it all boils down to where we are going to draw the line between what we call 'something' and what we call 'nothing.'

If what I saw is true, it is evidence (to me only) that we live and exist in a multi-dimensional infinite universe.

Now the next step is to define ourselves.

What are we exactly?


darkowl1's photo
Tue 02/10/09 09:58 AM
we are poo manufacturers. that's the only thing we leave behind from our own bodies. then we leave the body behind.

darkowl1's photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:14 AM
in seriousness, if you go up 100 ft in the air, it seems that all we do, doesn't matter either, you can hardly hear us, and our squables mean nothing, and all our struggles mean little from there....but, i think what we make matter, is what really matters, for we feel, and feeling is something. it's the only thing we have...and it's not tangible....go figure. it's all we take with us. i do understand what you are saying in te post. you could toss that around forever..... actually on the lighter side, i remember this song from the seventies

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me

I'm not tryin' to be your hero
'Cause that zero is too cold for me, Brrr
I'm not tryin' to be your highness
'Cause that minus is too low to see, yeah

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
And I'm not stuffin'
Believe you me
Don't you remember I told ya
I'm a soldier in the war on poverty, yeah
Yes, I am

instrumental break

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me

You gotta have somethin'
If you wanna be with me
You gotta bring me somethin' girl
If you wanna be with me

no photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:31 AM

I remember that song. bigsmile
It was about 30 years ago.

I think the song, "Row Row Row your boat" is even better.

Life is but a dream. smokin

no photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:34 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 02/10/09 10:35 AM
My little brother, at the age of about 5, looked up from his play and asked:

"WHAT AM I?"

He did not ask, "who am I?" He knew who he was, and he knew he was a little boy. He knew he was called a "human." He was quite clear about that.

He wanted to know WHAT he was.

I didn't know how to answer that question on the larger scale of things considered.

darkowl1's photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:36 AM


I remember that song. bigsmile
It was about 30 years ago.

I think the song, "Row Row Row your boat" is even better.

Life is but a dream. smokin


mr, spock could never understand the song, he argued about it on startrek, i found it very amusing. i like the song enoughdrinker drinker

darkowl1's photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:41 AM

My little brother, at the age of about 5, looked up from his play and asked:

"WHAT AM I?"

He did not ask, "who am I?" He knew who he was, and he knew he was a little boy. He knew he was called a "human." He was quite clear about that.

He wanted to know WHAT he was.

I didn't know how to answer that question on the larger scale of things considered.


when i was three, i felt like i was looking out a glass, and i looked at the little colors in my hand, (red and white) and said to myself...am i really me? then i got all weird feeling inside(creepies) and then got back to normal, but it would happpen fequently enough to worry me. i'm secure with it now, after being out of body.

no photo
Tue 02/10/09 10:54 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Tue 02/10/09 10:54 AM
Wow, that's interesting.


Once when I was about 19, I looked up at the stars and suddenly I felt like I was a long long way from home and became very homesick. While looking up there, I felt that I was looking at my home.

For three days I had this home sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I went to visit my parents because I was so homesick, and I sat there looking at them thinking... this is not home, these are not my real parents.

So strange. Eventually that feeling went away.




notquite00's photo
Tue 02/10/09 11:57 PM

So the paradox is, We don't exist.

Yet here we are.


Nothingness is Form and Form is Nothingness.

Buddhist philosophy also mentions this sort of principle. Quantum Mechanics also has found this to be true on a subatomic level: virtual particles spontaneously come into existence then are annihilated. Well, that may sound fantastical, but this understanding has allowed us to explain many things. Anyway...

String Theory tells us that matter/energy can be thought as strings vibrating in a higher dimension. In that sense, we don't quite exist, do we? At least not in the way we think we do. Yet we perceive ourselves and we perceive our surroundings. In actuality, what we experience are just symbols that we can interpret that only represent reality.

...but for all points and purposes, what we experience *is* reality...at least somewhat.

In short, the answer to your question is a pretty big mindf*ck.

Another way of looking at things is to realize that the vast majority of space contained within the boundary of every atom is emptiness. Thus, quite literally, we are principally made of empty space.

O_o

Wow, that's interesting.


Once when I was about 19, I looked up at the stars and suddenly I felt like I was a long long way from home and became very homesick. While looking up there, I felt that I was looking at my home.

For three days I had this home sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I went to visit my parents because I was so homesick, and I sat there looking at them thinking... this is not home, these are not my real parents.

So strange. Eventually that feeling went away.


Very strange indeed. Perhaps your mind and your humanity were playing tricks on your heart. ^_^

Another possibility is to take your experience literally. We were forged in the bellies of stars and we are the children of the heavens. Perhaps there is some residual mark of the birthplace of the atoms that compose you, and perhaps your mind has somehow interpreted this mark as an engram within your memories. O_O

Sounds pretty far fetched, if you ask me, but it's a very romantic idea, isn't it?flowerforyou

That bit about your little brother is sort of creepy, but way cool. What a strange question from a child.

no photo
Wed 02/11/09 10:48 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Wed 02/11/09 10:49 AM


So the paradox is, We don't exist.

Yet here we are.


Nothingness is Form and Form is Nothingness.

Buddhist philosophy also mentions this sort of principle. Quantum Mechanics also has found this to be true on a subatomic level: virtual particles spontaneously come into existence then are annihilated. Well, that may sound fantastical, but this understanding has allowed us to explain many things. Anyway...

String Theory tells us that matter/energy can be thought as strings vibrating in a higher dimension. In that sense, we don't quite exist, do we? At least not in the way we think we do. Yet we perceive ourselves and we perceive our surroundings. In actuality, what we experience are just symbols that we can interpret that only represent reality.

...but for all points and purposes, what we experience *is* reality...at least somewhat.

In short, the answer to your question is a pretty big mindf*ck.

Another way of looking at things is to realize that the vast majority of space contained within the boundary of every atom is emptiness. Thus, quite literally, we are principally made of empty space.

O_o

Wow, that's interesting.


Once when I was about 19, I looked up at the stars and suddenly I felt like I was a long long way from home and became very homesick. While looking up there, I felt that I was looking at my home.

For three days I had this home sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I went to visit my parents because I was so homesick, and I sat there looking at them thinking... this is not home, these are not my real parents.

So strange. Eventually that feeling went away.


Very strange indeed. Perhaps your mind and your humanity were playing tricks on your heart. ^_^

Another possibility is to take your experience literally. We were forged in the bellies of stars and we are the children of the heavens. Perhaps there is some residual mark of the birthplace of the atoms that compose you, and perhaps your mind has somehow interpreted this mark as an engram within your memories. O_O

Sounds pretty far fetched, if you ask me, but it's a very romantic idea, isn't it?flowerforyou

That bit about your little brother is sort of creepy, but way cool. What a strange question from a child.



The experience of feeling homesick was truly unexplained. I had no thoughts of being from the stars, or of aliens, or anything as wild as that. I had no explanation of the feeling that lasted for days.

I do understand the question, "What am I?"

If you look past the fact that we occupy an amazing physical body, and try to look inward to find yourself, it is a path that will lead back to ... nothingness.

Yet you cannot say: "I am nothing."
And you still cannot say: "I am something."

All you CAN SAY IS: "I AM."

I AM THAT I AM.




davidben1's photo
Wed 02/11/09 05:56 PM
each thing is but the total sum of it's purpose???

is it most the ability to describe self, or to find what show self it's own most purpose???

if self were a hammer on a table, then to try to figure out self, is to try to list the total things that could be done with a hammer, and which things would be for most good, and which for most bad???

the list then of potentials of self go unto infinity???

if self is nothing and everything, what self shall do with the all and nothing it has been awarded, is the path into the understanding of the purprose of self???

but, the purpose of self is only found by finding the purpose of all things around self first???

this then show HOW TO USE THE HAMMER IN EACH SITUATION, EACH ONE CALLING FOR A DIFFERENT ACTION OF THE HAMMER???

peace unto infinity is only but to see the purpose of all things that happen and exist, and this no human thinking can ever surmise, as it only pass thru the mind by clearing out the mind of all thinking and surmizing, as since environment is ever changing with each second, as all things seen each second are different, then the definition of "self" is most what need to be passed away to allow free flowing of self as a river passing thru all things experienced???

the only peace that allow the hearing of the voices of the universe be when the human brain is silent and without thought, and this no mind can will or think itself to???

peace




greeneyes1974's photo
Wed 02/11/09 06:12 PM
Our bodys are nothing (dust in the wind )
Our Souls learn from the bodly experiance we have here on earth.so what we are consist of how much we LEARN,LOVE and PAIN from our earthly life,then we take that with us till we return again with a new body to gain wisdom, this is the cycle. (OPEN YOUR THIRD EYE):heart:

no photo
Wed 02/11/09 06:23 PM

Its a thought created world. A projection. A holographic model of a dream reality.

All that truly exists is consciousness.


notquite00's photo
Fri 02/13/09 08:51 AM

The experience of feeling homesick was truly unexplained. I had no thoughts of being from the stars, or of aliens, or anything as wild as that. I had no explanation of the feeling that lasted for days.

I do understand the question, "What am I?"

If you look past the fact that we occupy an amazing physical body, and try to look inward to find yourself, it is a path that will lead back to ... nothingness.

Yet you cannot say: "I am nothing."
And you still cannot say: "I am something."

All you CAN SAY IS: "I AM."

I AM THAT I AM.


Well, can't we say, "I am something?" We are, after all, something, even when you lay aside the physical shell that is the body. If we were nothing, then we wouldn't be, correct? And, come to mention it, to say that what is around us is perfectly nothing is not quite accurate either. Even if our surroundings are illusions created by our minds, then our surroundings are *still* our thoughts and interpretations, which *is* something.

Anyhow...

stonekeeper's photo
Fri 02/13/09 09:06 AM
we the willing...lead by the unknowing are doing the impossible for the ungrateful...we have done so much for so long with so little we are now qualified to do anything with nothing at all.


author unknown.

notquite00's photo
Fri 02/13/09 09:11 AM

each thing is but the total sum of it's purpose???

is it most the ability to describe self, or to find what show self it's own most purpose???

if self were a hammer on a table, then to try to figure out self, is to try to list the total things that could be done with a hammer, and which things would be for most good, and which for most bad???

the list then of potentials of self go unto infinity???

if self is nothing and everything, what self shall do with the all and nothing it has been awarded, is the path into the understanding of the purprose of self???

but, the purpose of self is only found by finding the purpose of all things around self first???

this then show HOW TO USE THE HAMMER IN EACH SITUATION, EACH ONE CALLING FOR A DIFFERENT ACTION OF THE HAMMER???

peace unto infinity is only but to see the purpose of all things that happen and exist, and this no human thinking can ever surmise, as it only pass thru the mind by clearing out the mind of all thinking and surmizing, as since environment is ever changing with each second, as all things seen each second are different, then the definition of "self" is most what need to be passed away to allow free flowing of self as a river passing thru all things experienced???

the only peace that allow the hearing of the voices of the universe be when the human brain is silent and without thought, and this no mind can will or think itself to???

peace


You say that each thing is the sum of its purposes. I think this is where things become a little sticky --

I claim that Purpose is a description or prejudice that Man assigns to an object. Purpose is not an inherent trait, where as Being is an inherent trait. For example, we call an object a hammer only to describe what we see as its Purpose. If we gave a hammer to a cat, however, the hammer would only be an object or a toy to the cat. We see that a the Purpose(s) of an object depend on our interpretation of the object. Another example: Imagine I didn't know what a hammer was. If I found a hammer somewhere, perhaps I would use it as a ruler to measure small distances, or perhaps I would call the object junk and throw it away.
In contrast, Being, what something *is*, is an inherent property. A hammer is actually an object with a thin cylinder of wood nearly one foot in length with an oblong, flat piece of metal fixed to one end. Thus, the object has certain intrinsic characteristics, which do not include a purpose.

When you talk about a person and what a person *is*, it becomes more clear that we are not the sum of our purposes. We have no specific purpose upon being born, unless our parents conceived us to fulfill a specific duty or our society assigns us a life purpose. However, these purposes do not encompass what we are. For example, my purpose is not to create art, but I doodle sometimes, and this defines me as well.

no photo
Fri 02/13/09 09:21 AM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Fri 02/13/09 09:22 AM


The experience of feeling homesick was truly unexplained. I had no thoughts of being from the stars, or of aliens, or anything as wild as that. I had no explanation of the feeling that lasted for days.

I do understand the question, "What am I?"

If you look past the fact that we occupy an amazing physical body, and try to look inward to find yourself, it is a path that will lead back to ... nothingness.

Yet you cannot say: "I am nothing."
And you still cannot say: "I am something."

All you CAN SAY IS: "I AM."

I AM THAT I AM.


Well, can't we say, "I am something?" We are, after all, something, even when you lay aside the physical shell that is the body. If we were nothing, then we wouldn't be, correct? And, come to mention it, to say that what is around us is perfectly nothing is not quite accurate either. Even if our surroundings are illusions created by our minds, then our surroundings are *still* our thoughts and interpretations, which *is* something.

Anyhow...



I once read that "Thoughts are things."

Turns out, they may be the only things. laugh :wink:

davidben1's photo
Fri 02/13/09 11:07 AM
Edited by davidben1 on Fri 02/13/09 11:18 AM


each thing is but the total sum of it's purpose???

is it most the ability to describe self, or to find what show self it's own most purpose???

if self were a hammer on a table, then to try to figure out self, is to try to list the total things that could be done with a hammer, and which things would be for most good, and which for most bad???

the list then of potentials of self go unto infinity???

if self is nothing and everything, what self shall do with the all and nothing it has been awarded, is the path into the understanding of the purprose of self???

but, the purpose of self is only found by finding the purpose of all things around self first???

this then show HOW TO USE THE HAMMER IN EACH SITUATION, EACH ONE CALLING FOR A DIFFERENT ACTION OF THE HAMMER???

peace unto infinity is only but to see the purpose of all things that happen and exist, and this no human thinking can ever surmise, as it only pass thru the mind by clearing out the mind of all thinking and surmizing, as since environment is ever changing with each second, as all things seen each second are different, then the definition of "self" is most what need to be passed away to allow free flowing of self as a river passing thru all things experienced???

the only peace that allow the hearing of the voices of the universe be when the human brain is silent and without thought, and this no mind can will or think itself to???

peace


You say that each thing is the sum of its purposes. I think this is where things become a little sticky --

I claim that Purpose is a description or prejudice that Man assigns to an object. Purpose is not an inherent trait, where as Being is an inherent trait. For example, we call an object a hammer only to describe what we see as its Purpose. If we gave a hammer to a cat, however, the hammer would only be an object or a toy to the cat. We see that a the Purpose(s) of an object depend on our interpretation of the object. Another example: Imagine I didn't know what a hammer was. If I found a hammer somewhere, perhaps I would use it as a ruler to measure small distances, or perhaps I would call the object junk and throw it away.
In contrast, Being, what something *is*, is an inherent property. A hammer is actually an object with a thin cylinder of wood nearly one foot in length with an oblong, flat piece of metal fixed to one end. Thus, the object has certain intrinsic characteristics, which do not include a purpose.

When you talk about a person and what a person *is*, it becomes more clear that we are not the sum of our purposes. We have no specific purpose upon being born, unless our parents conceived us to fulfill a specific duty or our society assigns us a life purpose. However, these purposes do not encompass what we are. For example, my purpose is not to create art, but I doodle sometimes, and this defines me as well.


a hammer is not a hammer less it had a purpose, which be many more things than the natural mind see, but indeed it be called not a hammer, less that purpose was defined???

if one know not it's purpose, then indeed it has yet to have one???

if one know not it's one purpose, than it does not see the value of other living breathing things within it's own spieces, as even and ant see and know the purpose of EACH other ant that live within it's colony???

to not know one's total purpose on this earth is to wander with a mark in the forehead, innocent naive ignorance???

if a hammer can be used to build a bridge to saftey, construct a ladder of escape, be traded for food for the starving, build a roof to shelter, and as well, stike the poor and weak, drink the blood of another, take and give life, then a human as well be as nothing less it FIRST see each action and word it perform do do the same???

to think there is no negative potential created by only the use of good words is to create hell with words thought to create heaven???

there is nothing that allow self to "feel" until self know it's TOTAL PURPOSE???

nothing see how it effect and create by each word and action less it know it's purpose???

any word can be proven or disproven, and the motive as the want decide what self decide be the most reality of itself???

a well intentioned good word can create the greatest hell any human being can concieve of???

less a hammer can be used to drive reality into the soul, it is as useless but for destruction???

purpose???

JustAGuy2112's photo
Fri 02/13/09 10:41 PM
My head hurts now.

davidben1's photo
Fri 02/13/09 10:56 PM
Edited by davidben1 on Fri 02/13/09 10:57 PM

My head hurts now.


the head only hurt when it grow, lol???


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