bl8nt throwing out a snide remark about my hair just proves even you can
be a FRAUD on the internet. 2 passports you carry? and why is this? Your
NOT american? Then YOU have no real say here now do you??? OH! but i am
SURE if your country needed say HELP America would be right there to
help. Cant beat that now can ya? shaking my head sadly at YOUR PETTY
JEALOUSY!

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN SERVING PROUDLY!

just a little side issue... Hitler Killed jews because he felt that they
were the reason for the poor economic situation within Germany.. He
wrote Mein Kamf,, But, don't hold him guilty by himself.. He did have
the support of the Catholic Church.

"You all have the rights that freedom allows you, to think, feel and say
whatever you will, here, in this safe haven. Yet you seem to oppose with
flagrant disregard the same to one, Rosie O’Donnell. She has used her
high profile, her high morals with unrelenting energy to advance causes
within political, legal, and for individual rights than all of us
combined can ever hope to accomplish here."



hey red, i do not oppose her speaking her voice, or pulling others that
will assist her in doing so. the only thing I oppose is PERSONAL
opinions in a netwrok or company, or group, etc. Freedom of the press
and freedom ov speech are two very seperate issues. Freedom of speech
gives the individual the right to voice their opinion. Freedom of the
press doe snot give the right to voice opinion, but to voice FACTS. Adn
in Rosies case her media DIRECTOR told her that her opinions did not
match the medias opinions etc. And he had that right and obligation to
do so. yes the stand (?) is a talk show. However, it is one that is
guided by the media, and so there are some limiting issues there.

I find my kitten more interesting than Rosie. She annoys me and is like
that scary Aunt who gets really drunk at family gatherings.

Bl8nt has an American passport to visit me in the middle of the night ;)

Daniel, I understand what you have said. I also understand that there
is/are some issues of national security that require the government have
control of them above and away from 'at the moment' freedom of speech.
However, it was the censorship, of not allowing her to give numbers of
wounded, and dead. It was the censorship of those things that have no
reason to be safeguarded by the government. Read any newspaper, I defy
you not to find nearly everything colored with opinion. The whole tone
of an article can be considered opinion. Yet it occurs. Now there is
some question that has arizen about some events pertaining to 9/11. Is
there a newspaper in this country that can not print that so & so has
some questions regarding to - blablabla. NO.

Now we have a talk show, that has highered very public people to host.
Not news professional, not educated journalists, but public, high
profile poeple from the entertainment business. The nature of this show
is not specifically to give only newsworthy, unopinionated, factually
provable fact by trustworthy sources. Look whose hosting it. Hell no,
It's a talk show, an entertainment segment. Now all the sudden this
show, "The View" is held to a higher standard than Jerry Springer, or
Oprah?

Does it now occur to you, why, how, the government uses/abuses it's
power. As I stated before, Rosie is a very high profile, active and
"followed" leader in legislative issues. THEY - the politicians, hence
the government, and definately the President, in this case, don't like
her power. Censorship, pure and simple has been envolked in her case.
I think it's deplorable.

just because bl8ant doesn't live in america doesn't mean that she
doesn't hold US citizenship.

Rosie O'donell is an actress/comedian with opinions on political issues,
she has turned that into a new form of shock jock theatrics for value.
Why might she do this? could she have motives of her own? could it be
money? I think so... now she will receive more money for whatever her
next gig is simply because she's suppossedly this Huge star. I think she
thought this out pretty good, the next howard stern so to speak, because
sister she aint a very good comedian or actress, and as far as politics
goes, does she have any serious legislative knowledge, or is it just the
"street smarts" gained as a struggling on the road comedian?

just one more thing about a comment RED made.

=Rosie O’Donnell. She has used her high profile, her high morals with
unrelenting energy to advance causes within political, legal, and for
individual rights than all of us combined can ever hope to accomplish
here=

high morals? calling US service men and women terrorist who deserve to
die is not in my opinion moral.

=Armydoc, you have spoken passionately, but I think your words are
blemished by anger=
=You speak from the political; you speak of the “political gain” of
presenting footage of coffins, battles, and real numbers. War is about
political gain, and it’s about hiding from the general public, what
could be detrimental to that end. It would be best to have an honest,
fact oriented news agency,....I would rather have badly reported
information, with some element of truth, than to depend of a government
who believes the deaths of our citizens is simply a casualty count.=

angered only by the amount of knowledge that people profess to have,
when not privy to or open to hear the information, who consistantly
distort and lie.
war is about hiding political gain from the public? and you would
rather get a "body count from somewhere else rather than the angencies
that are there.

red i really dont think you get it, about war and information. theres a
thing called intelligence. having news crews riding around with us (and
they did) gave us more people to have to protect (thats first) and it
allowed the enemy (who has all kinds of stuff available to them for
satelite comunications phones etc.) to be better prepared and able to
evade being captured or killed by us....its all good for them but I hope
you can see where that plays a very difficult time for us doing the
fighting, if theyre better prepared then the odds of more service men
dying are greater- thats not what you want Im sure--so how about leaving
the news at bay for awhile. if they get word we're coming they evade,
only to fight and kill another day, once again lets leave the media at
bay for awhile.

body counts? I wasnt aware that was an issue before today actually, did
you think there was more people we lost that we didnt report or
something? the government might be a lot of things but do you think they
wouldnt tell a dead soldiers family he was dead? where would you get
this info anyway- it would still have to go thru the department of
defense, confirmed by DNA that it was a soldier. you want real numbers,
i lost 13 guys and had another 139 wounded. real enough for you. and im
pretty sure (bet my life on it) those went into the count.

war hiding political gain thing-
war is imposing the will of one nation on another, in our case we didnt
want to be attacked by those who a) harbor and grow terrorist b) engage
in creating and using weapons of mass death c0 terrorizing their own
countrymen/women...so we imposed our desire to not be funked up by those
guys by blowing the snot out of them (literally), they wish to impose
their will or desire by being azzholes and continueing to do the above
metioned items.

doc

doc, you have made some good points. I don't agree with sending
unprepared civilians into a war zone for a general look see or for the
sake of "news" I don't want any of our servicemen put in more danger
because of this. I don't want any civilians put in harms way either.

I also know that there are those, like you, who have the count of some
in your head, personal reference. But that is some small number
compared to the whole. Yes, I believe there is an issue, when the vast
majority of the population in this country can not tell you, how many
lifes have been lost, how may captives there have been, how many have
been tortured, and how many are returned to their families, maimed for
life.

I also know what lies were perpetuated by the government throughout and
after the VietNam era. It was that era that caused this public to have
such a suspicious nature when it comes to the information they 'choose'
to supply.

I also find that no matter how informed about the current situation you
try to stay, one is greeted with all manner of opposing information.
All information that was supposedly given to the media for use, I find
nearly impossible determine where the information is coming from. How
can I know the accuracy of it. And there are so many stories from
freinds about what their family members are reporting back to them, that
are conflicting with what the government is either ALLOWING or FEEDING
the news services.

Throughout this conversation, what I have been trying to point out is
that, we are not aware of what is truely taking place. So when there is
some information found by some source it should be allowed to be given.
I'm not talking about orders, troup movements, things that would put
poeples lives in danger, I'm talking about making the public aware that
there is something terrible taking place. So if the media shows film of
10 caskets being returned to Indiana. People in that state KNOW that
they have neighbors who have been affected.

We need a way to stay connected to the events, of 'war' that reminds us,
as often as possible, that we are, in fact, at war.' To me, this is
the only way that people will rally, either in support of this
aggressive action, or to question the validity of it, and to pursue the
powers that continue it.

rosie o donnel is nothing but an attention grabbing mouth piece...that
is how she got her start to begin with...by running that over sized
mouth

stevewn wrote..

"rosie o donnel is nothing but an attention grabbing mouth piece...that
is how she got her start to begin with...by running that over sized
mouth."

*****************************************************************

By all appearances sake, and through the entire context of this thread,
if anyone so much as says "BOO" in a remotely negative way towards
America, the metaphorical knives, guns, claws, fangs come out, and do
their damndest to annihilate the person who spoke up.

As an observer, from another country, if I were to use these forums as
any indication of American mentality, I could find myself very
uncomfortable, in considering your country a healthy place.

And yes I have a BIG MOUTH..

Fascinating thing I find, is someone spoke their mind, both Rosie
O'Donnel, and bl8ant,...and she is getting annihilated for it..some
freedom of speech you guys exercise over there, as long as it is what
you want to hear, then one has the right...

Hypocritical to the nth degree..

My eldest son is in the Australian Armed Forces, and has trained with
both American and British soldiers, and also served on active duty
overseas with both other countries...in his words, 'they are all
soldiers, no matter what the uniform, and there is no favouritism, they
all watch each others backs', and I have just gotten off the phone after
asking what his wishes are, as to if he was killed in service..

His reply.." My body came from you, you decide, I chose to work in the
armed forces as a career, but I am not the Army, nor Australian
property. I feel it would be horrendous for you and my brother and
sisters and my partner to have to share your grief with a public that
never knew me."

And if I was to decide...

My son is my son, not some damn stupid war's, country's, or
employment's, and if he was to die in his choice of career, look out
anyone who tries to tell me differently....and for the record, I do not
agree one iota with his decision to join the Armed Forces,I was
horrified, and ashamed for the longest of time..I love my son, I do not
love the choices he made.

Everyone has right to their opine even ROSIE!


Have a Great Saturday All



Alex I love you

kimi!! and Jess .... and and and .....


ya know...... at the end of the day... it's cool ... we can all count
our blessings....sigh

The love it or leave it mentality of some americans makes me sick.
freedom of speech is just that....hugs to my friends and alex ya know i
dont always agree with ya but i love ya just the same.

I'm going to break my own rules and share my opinion on a political
matter.

Rosie lost my support when she pulled a bait and switch on Tom Selleck,
burning him after he stuck his neck out (his pro-gun backers were
unhappy) to appear on her mediocre show. That said, she has the right
to freedom of speech just like everyone else.

ABC in turn has the right to decide what they will pay to transmit, they
pay her to be a professional, take it or leave it.

I support the troops wholeheartedly but not the leaders.

bl8ant

I see you are still artfully dodging the question I asked exactly what
freedoms do we not have. Sorry if the title liberal offended you but
your views are far from conservative. If you have no answer say so,
don't feign indignation and call us a lynch mob.

Big sis I told ya to keep the rope out of sight, if they see it, it
scares em off.

as far as reporting numbers of dead, wounded and such?
that is not someting we as th epublic have the "right" to know.
generalized numbers yes, but not specific. The only numbers of dead and
wounded we have the right to know is those of our own flesh and blood
family members.
That said, I do consider all gi's no matter the nation, to be my borther
or sister. However, the spreading of all these numbers does NOTHING
except cause dissent and arguments. It is propaganda used to cause
trouble. Numbers do notmatter. What matters is fi we think we are
doing what is right or not. If we feel it is a just cause then what
does it matter how many people died for it? look at the american
revelution... How many people do you think died, so that we could be
here arguing aboutthis right now? If someone had gone through back then
and said, of we have lost x thousands of colony memebers, do you think
we would have caved in and accept4d british rule? No, we would not
have. And we should not let the numbers persuade us now as to whether
or not this is right.
thank you.

Daniel how can you link the deaths of colonial soldiers dying to form
this nation, to american soldiers fighting in Iraq??? That baffles me,
but it isnt why Im posting..

This Government is of the people and by the people...

How can you say that the american people do not have a right to know the
nnumber of dead and wounded in a war being fought with their Military??
I dont care why you think they dont need to know,
I want to know how you fiqure it is not their right to know?
I think the government wants....to hide these numbers, is so they can
pitch a false rosey, account to an uninformed public..

That is a dangerous thought..

LOL gardenforge!!! slipping my rope back into my handbag!!!