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| Topic: Obama wants to control the census. | |
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"So people look to their government to help."
And that is as it should be. Our people are the strength of this country and if we (meaning all of us, which means the government) do not care for them, we are then a weak nation. Someone said that you can tell a countries wealth not by the rich but by how well they take care of their poor, elderly and disabled. |
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I have stated before and say it again, for those people which are a small portion of those that are currently taking money from the government, I believe we should help them..but I(I meaning us) feel it more important that I give of myself, not the government...it is I who is touched and touches those that are aflicted, it is I who know their need far better then some government agency and 100% of what I give goes to the people that need it...when the government can give 100% of what they collect in taxes directly to the people that need it...then this wouldn't be a debate...but that will never happen...
Do you take money that people give to help the poor and take a protion for yourself in the process??? then hand over the rest?? That would be wrong and taking advantage of other peoples goodness...that is what the government does with taxes... |
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Edited by
Dragoness
on
Sat 02/07/09 03:04 PM
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I have stated before and say it again, for those people which are a small portion of those that are currently taking money from the government, I believe we should help them..but I(I meaning us) feel it more important that I give of myself, not the government...it is I who is touched and touches those that are aflicted, it is I who know their need far better then some government agency and 100% of what I give goes to the people that need it...when the government can give 100% of what they collect in taxes directly to the people that need it...then this wouldn't be a debate...but that will never happen... Do you take money that people give to help the poor and take a protion for yourself in the process??? then hand over the rest?? That would be wrong and taking advantage of other peoples goodness...that is what the government does with taxes... Well I can tell that you are not business sauvey. Administrative costs are a part of each and every business from small to large. All charities have administrative costs which they have to consider to accomplish their charitible works. The government being an unaffiliated organization, in other words a non discriminatory source, they are qualified to disperse to the needy what they need far better than say a religious organization that will want to cater to their own, or white folks that would want to cater to their own, or a party affiliation that would only want to cater to their own, or any group that discriminates against others for ANY REASON that would want to cater to who they FEEL is deserving, etc.... I used those as examples to show how people can be discriminatory and feel they are right with their form of discrimination when in truth they are not. I worked for the welfare department and unbeknowst to most people the welfare department actually recoups their money in quite a few ways that people outside would not know. Child support is used to repay welfare received by women or men, repayment of welfare received incorrectly is another way of recouping. I don't know if you know this but prejudice people really scream alot about the government handouts as a way of "legitimizing" their personal prejudices against whoever they are prejudice against. If a person who hears this regularly from those around them really looks at the base of the reason they are screaming about it, they will find that the people are actually prejudice against the "type" of people they feel are riding for free. Check it out sometime. |
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Edited by
boo2u
on
Sat 02/07/09 06:29 PM
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We need to get back to the days when people looked out for themselves and did wait around and expect others to provide for them.. I came from a poor background, my fathers family starved to death during the depression and only his older brother and him survived.. I too came from a poor family, and they didn't get help way back them. Would I have b$tched if they had gotten help? Only if I had no bloody heart. Too bad your fathers family did not have our system today that would have prevented them from starving to death. How proud they would be of you right now, knowing how you think. You seem to miss the point of our system, that cares for it's people when things are bad for them individually and as a whole. Is it fair to burden some with the problems of others..do you want your neighbor providing for you or you for them?? Helping is one thing, providing for them because of the choices they make is another.. Not everyone that is facing hard times right now did something to deserve it. Yet you would expect them to suffer... that amazes me. Should I be burdened? Well I would not call it a burden as you would. I accept it as a reality of life. I would accept it, if for no other reason, then that one day I too may find myself in their shoes, and would hope there would be someone that cared that I didn't starve to death. I don't want to live in a selfish world. |
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But if I hand a twenty to a guy on the streets, I can say that whole $20 is going to him. If I give $1000 to a children's hospital, that $1000 is all going to the hospital (yes, there are administrative costs there but me giving them money does not increase them in the slightest. I do not donate money anywhere because I pay almost a third of my income to the government.
The problem with your assumption, dragoness, is that you seem to feel people are inherently evil (as in, not willing to help others). Human nature is to help others but too many are like me and are tired of giving to the government to help those that refuse to help themselves. Personally, to me the government has one purpose: doing those jobs that others cannot in a economically viable way. Basically, the federal government should handle things like military, interstate ordeals, and infrastructure like roads that you cannot efficiently do as a private company or fairly in a state-run government. I am large on a more powerful state government but even then they should only have social programs for those that cannot physically help themselves like the elderly, young, or disabled/sick. not joe six-pack who works at McDonalds to raise his 6 kids collecting welfare every month. |
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But Obama as a new president needs to know about the circumstances of people, how else can he cater for their needs? And you believe that a census will tell him about the circumstances of the people??? When was the last time a census taker asked you questions about your life and needs?? The article said, "In addition, Census data are used to determine funding formulas for a wide range of government programs." |
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I have stated before and say it again, for those people which are a small portion of those that are currently taking money from the government, I believe we should help them..but I(I meaning us) feel it more important that I give of myself, not the government...it is I who is touched and touches those that are aflicted, it is I who know their need far better then some government agency and 100% of what I give goes to the people that need it...when the government can give 100% of what they collect in taxes directly to the people that need it...then this wouldn't be a debate...but that will never happen... Do you take money that people give to help the poor and take a protion for yourself in the process??? then hand over the rest?? That would be wrong and taking advantage of other peoples goodness...that is what the government does with taxes... Well I can tell that you are not business sauvey. Administrative costs are a part of each and every business from small to large. All charities have administrative costs which they have to consider to accomplish their charitible works. The government being an unaffiliated organization, in other words a non discriminatory source, they are qualified to disperse to the needy what they need far better than say a religious organization that will want to cater to their own, or white folks that would want to cater to their own, or a party affiliation that would only want to cater to their own, or any group that discriminates against others for ANY REASON that would want to cater to who they FEEL is deserving, etc.... I used those as examples to show how people can be discriminatory and feel they are right with their form of discrimination when in truth they are not. I worked for the welfare department and unbeknowst to most people the welfare department actually recoups their money in quite a few ways that people outside would not know. Child support is used to repay welfare received by women or men, repayment of welfare received incorrectly is another way of recouping. I don't know if you know this but prejudice people really scream alot about the government handouts as a way of "legitimizing" their personal prejudices against whoever they are prejudice against. If a person who hears this regularly from those around them really looks at the base of the reason they are screaming about it, they will find that the people are actually prejudice against the "type" of people they feel are riding for free. Check it out sometime. You are assuming that I am prejudice, and I don't think you are qualified to make that determination since you don't know me. I spend alot of time working with all kinds of different people and spend alot of my time away from work helping people overcome their difficult situations in life. I do understand how business works and understand how when people give to different charities, they have expenses that come from the donated funds..I think that is bad when so much of the money is spent on overhead and less then 100% goes to the people that need it. I do happen to donate to groups that are funded privately and do not use any of the money that people donate for their overhead, and I do not care who it goes to other then to people that have a need. I know that you have heard the saying, "Give a person some fish and you feed them for the day..teach them how to fish and you feed them for a lifetime.. That is my belief and demonstrate that in my life activities The difference between you and me is that you feed of the government tit and I believe that we shouldn't. You work for the government, so of course you want to keep that tax money coming in. Child support payments do not provide you with your paycheck, taxpayers do..so I understand your bias towards people that believe that government is way overstepping what it should be doing. I do see people that come up and want food and clothing and other important things for themselves and their families, and we do all we can to help them out..but as you well know, there are plenty of people that take advantage of the situation. I have gone into many homes where people were asking for food help, but they had cases of beer stacked in their garages and cartons of Cigarettes but had no food for their children...is there a real need here or do they need to change their behavior to spend their money on food instead of their vices?? We provided food for the childrens sake, but the parents were angry that we would not give them money.. I know that there are many people in need, but educating them is the key to breaking their cycle of poverty, if not for them, but for their children.. |
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We need to get back to the days when people looked out for themselves and did wait around and expect others to provide for them.. I came from a poor background, my fathers family starved to death during the depression and only his older brother and him survived.. I too came from a poor family, and they didn't get help way back them. Would I have b$tched if they had gotten help? Only if I had no bloody heart. My Dad's family was very uneducated and lived a very different life then we live today..and I belive that if you asked your parents or grand parents, they would have scoffed at taking charity from anyone..at least thats what mine would have said.. After becoming an adult, he worked two to three jobs at a time to provide for his family, people now days don't even want to work one job much less 2 or more...and I do understand that there are many people that do work more then one job, I am not talking about those people..Heart has nothing to do with it. Too bad your fathers family did not have our system today that would have prevented them from starving to death. How proud they would be of you right now, knowing how you think. Here again is someone talking out of their butt and stating or should I say mistating things about me they do not know.. My father was very proud of my continuing his charitable causes, and when he passed away, had never taken a dime from any govenment agency for charity. And yes, they would be proud that I continue to provide real assistance to people that really want to improve their lives.. You seem to miss the point of our system, that cares for it's people when things are bad for them individually and as a whole. Yes, I am very familiar with Carl Marx and his theory of "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." But you and I disagree with the fundimental philosophy behind it. I believe that individuals should give to help others, I do not beleive that it is the responsiblity of the government to take from people to give to whom they choose..The pie in the sky attidute is a nice thought, but it is not reality and that system cannot maintain itself and eventually falls...show me one Marxist country that flourishes and I may change my opinion. Is it fair to burden some with the problems of others..do you want your neighbor providing for you or you for them?? Helping is one thing, providing for them because of the choices they make is another.. Not everyone that is facing hard times right now did something to deserve it. Yet you would expect them to suffer... that amazes me. So what did these people do during the good times to prepare for the bad times??? Did they educate themselves, did they save their money?? Did they get themselves out of debt so they could survive the hard times?? Probably not, because most people live day to day and people have not really fallen on super hard times,and do not have the self discipline to live within their means. There are exceptions to that, I do understand that, and as I have stated, helping someone through a hard time is good, I have an issue with people living off that system though. I have some rental units that I started buying right out of college..most are now paid off and provide a good income for helping others. What happens when one of my renters runs into hard time..I help them buy allowing them to live there and not pay rent..till they get back on their feet and get a job. But me being the heartless and cruel person puts my belief into action...not just words. And I do it with my money and assets, not anyone elses.. Should I be burdened? Well I would not call it a burden as you would. I accept it as a reality of life. I would accept it, if for no other reason, then that one day I too may find myself in their shoes, and would hope there would be someone that cared that I didn't starve to death. The reality is that if you plan right and live within your means, have the self disipline to save and not go into debt, then living through the hard times is easier.. Nothing is easy in life,it requires sacrifice and nothing is free, but being accountable for ones self and providing a way for themselves is not a selfish act. To me those that expect the government and indirectly me and other tax payers to provide for them is selfish act.. I don't want to live in a selfish world. We are lucky, we have never experienced the difficulties faced by our parents and we do not know what real poverty and devistation is here in America. My ability to give is a enjoyment for me, not for self glorification, but just the joy of seeing someone you helped get up and stand on their own and become a productive citizen is a wonderful feeling.. If you think the government help agencies are altruistic in nature, you are fooling yourself..Politicians need voters and votes to maintain power and control, and a dependant society provides them with that. |
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"execute the office of the President" and "preserve protect and defened the constitution of the United States" nowhere does it say cater to the every wish and whim of the people. what happened to being being responsbile for themselves?? It's served my family well enough. Have you gotten your social security statement recently? Every penny that you've put into it is GONE and you've got no hope of ever seeing a dime of it if you're under the age of 40. and that's being conservative in that estimate.. the real age is probably closer to 50.. I know for absolute certainty that every bit of money that's been taken out of my paychecks for social security is lost and gone forever. Got no hope of ever seeing it.. but hey! Let's put another 4 million on state run health insurance.. This is not true either. The people of this country who need help, need help. Just because you or your family has never needed it does not mean the circumstances do not exist. Isn't funny how people cannot see outside of themselves to consider they will never know the fight in life of others. I never said that we've never been without struggle.. certainly there have been hard times. now notwithstanding.. Heck, I'm having a hard time at the moment.. but I'm not running down to every government office I can find looking for a handout! though I could certainly use a little infusion of cash. I think it's a little presumptuous, maybe even a little pompous, to confuse not wanting to take from thy neighbor's cupboard with never having experienced hard times... my entire childhood was hard times. I never got hundred dollar shoes and name-brand jeans or every toy I stomped my feet over. but kids nowadays hardly ever go wanting.. I think it was you, Dragoness, last week that said "you can't tell people how to spend money" when refering to people on food stamps when I voiced an objection to wastefull spending at the grocery store on taxpayer money.. You can't have it both ways.. As for the census issue, what's at stake is no less than the balance and distribution of the congress and voting districts. If someone's able to cook the books up front, they can engineer the way congressional seats are divied up and where district lines are drawn.. I think they call that gerrymandering.. the "Community Organizer" is going to get to organize congresional voting districts across the nation? I smell a rat.. |
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Edited by
raiderfan_32
on
Sun 02/08/09 07:59 AM
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"So people look to their government to help." Scariest words in the English Language: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." 
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"So people look to their government to help." Scariest words in the English Language: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." hahahaha and that is what why the framers of the constitution came up with the 2nd amendment!! |
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