It was first said that the Universe was made up of Matter, energy, space and time. (MEST)

Then the nature of space and time was questioned and some said that the Universe was Matter, energy and Consciousness.

(Wallace D. Wattles calls consciousness "a thinking substance.")

Then it was discovered that Matter and energy were interchangeable, hence matter=energy and energy can be made into matter.

So now we are left with energy and consciousness.

Energy and consciousness can be considered the chicken and the egg.

Now you can ask which came first.

I think it was the egg..... consciousness.

And the energy came forth from that.

Hence ... the big bang.

I would argue consciousness came first.

especially because I attribute existence to a Designer.

that's deep

very well said. you found a way to simplify albert einstein and stephen hawking. wow. you're like david carradine in kung fu.

Substance is matter.



Therefore, what you are left with are thinking matter and non-thinking matter.

Although I wouldn't have run my train of thought along quite that exact set of tracks, my train ends up at the same destination.

What one might declare as "non-thinking" matter would not exist.

All substance is subject to vibration and thought is vibration.

If a thing is effected by thought or vibration then it is a thinking substance as it relates to the thought or vibration.

All things vibrate and give off frequency. This frequency is the vibration of thought in substance.

While thought is vibration, it is not the Will in action.

The Will in actions moves and uses thinking substance to manifest form.

Substance that is submissive to will in action is used to manifest form. (Atoms in matter, living cells in the body etc.)

SO which came first?
The egg?

May I have my consciousness sunny side up, please?

Yep... the egg came first.

At long last, the answer to the age old question!

You would probably really dig the book "Cosmic Jackpot" By Paul Davies. He is a Cosmologist who favors the idea of backward causation of some kind of mind.

Seriously JB you would dig it, I sure did, but again I am the skeptic, I love all kinds of ideas, but that doesn't mean I must accept it as true.

I will check it out.

I don't know that it matters. From our puny and short existance in the universe, one could say it always was and always will be, in effect. Whether one came before the other is irrelevet, simply because it preceded us, and likely will succeed us as well, and every offspring of humanity. Even if we had that special cosmic answer, we would be the butt of the cosmic joke, right or wrong.

Yes in a sense you are right. At the stage we are currently in, we probably should just tend to business and our lives and forget about all of that.



Get happy and Party On Dude!

I can accept that

Perhaps what we percieve to be the entire universe is some vast cosmic egg created for some inscrutable and unknowable purpose by some hyperadvanced Type IV ETI Civilization.

There you go, proof of intelligent design.

If I may, I would like to propose a few things that you may want to consider.
First we must determine whether the universe entails all of space in it's infinitte glory or just our universe.
"If" the egg represents our universe, what put the egg there?
Personaly, I think the chicken would be more descriptive of conciousness and the egg energy. In all of space, you'd have one chicken laying eggs all around. However you see it, I agree that conciousness had to come first.
What if conciousness is the void, the nothingness that is everywhere? That would agree with so many beliefs (religions) that God (whatever you want to call it) IS everywhere and everything.
Does anyone know what percentage of an atom is "void or nothing"?
Does anyone think that void will ever reveal properties that can be perceived?