Heh, don't bother Fit. I've used the same points on these guy since
this thread started, and they just refuse to listen.

And, of course, the call me "close minded" the entire time.

Jess I think your underestimating human strenghts.

Would you save the life of one horse to that of one human being?

Possibly...would be my answer...the scenario is not clear enough for me
to answer...

Wherein lies the greater risk, to self, to others?

If I had to choose between both in that scenario at the same time?

In exactly the same level of danger?

Probably the human if they were not the greater panicker..

and only because the sheer weight of the horse, if in the same level of
panic as the human, would put myself at risk of being in the same
predicament as them.

No so black and white for me...I don't put any over another, and would
have to assess the situation at the time...and was is the threat?

Perhaps neither...you didn't give me enough to work on...and I am not
that attached to humanity to give it precedence over life, any life..

Ok.... Jess.... how about the scenario I presented earlier?


We develop a way to successfully implant an animal heart in a human
body. Taking the heart out of the animal, obviously, is fatal. But it is
a certainty that the person would die without the heart.


Now which option do you take- the animal dies or the human does.

Healthy pig....unhealthy human? Will die without the surgery?

Go get your ropes and your lynch mob...because I would not interrupt the
pig's life for me, my child, nor any others...my beliefs, plain and
simple..I donot have the right to interrupt a life..and the reality is
the human is ill, and is on their own path...journey, life, soul
obligation.

HOWEVER...

A donor heart? From a deceased person, animal, whatever is suitable?
Bring it on..

What I don't understand within the realms of debate Poet, is your angle,
is this personal, now? Are you and I in a position of loggerheads, of
personal defamation?

Is fine, just checking first...

My beliefs are mine, yours are yours, they differ...big deal.. Back up
your beliefs, YOURS, and allow others theirs, and for them to do the
same, and we have a dialogue..

Judge and critique them and tell them they are wrong..prepare to be met
with a less than positive outcome...

Antagonism gets one nowhere...and yes I made a comment earlier in this
thread that was inflammatory..makes me a contradiction I guess...

Thank God, Alah, Jehova, Arira, or whatever iteration of the
divine/spiritual world is in charge, that most human beings disagree
with you.


You know what would be a really great laugh- if you were also pro
abortion. I've met enough liberals taking your stance, and thus far, all
of them were.

But I did back up my beliefs. Repeatedly. But lots of lists and
examples of how we have extreme advantages over other animal species.
Right down to comparing us to different generational computers. I don't
know what definition you place on "superiority"- but we won most of
those with relative ease.

Wow...judge not that ye not be judged Poet...assume not, that You not
make an ass of yourself...

You just showed yourself, young man...to all who chooses to read...

Are you asking within the context of the topic if being 'Superior'means
I allow healthy life to be taken?

I have stated over and over that I do not find human species to be
superior...

But I have to thankyou...you are so good for me, you remind me to be
tolerant, patient, and acepting...

Are you telling me I'm wrong?

And "life" is merely life. It isn't in our living that makes us better
than other species. It is in the way we can live. Our intelligence, our
creativity, our expression. Art, poetry, music, *LOVE*- that's the
things we can feel that make us better.

Poetnartist wote:
“And your box is any better, abra?”

Tell me what box I’m in please. What presumptions am I making that I
refuse to let go?

Poetnartist wote:
“You refuse to see my points because I make a presumptions of absolutes
in my religious beliefs. For all you know, we're right. What then, eh?”

That’s absolutely correct. You are locked into presumptions and that is
the core of all your arguments.

For all I know you are right? Sure, things could be like you say.
That’s not the point. The point is that you have no compelling evidence
for it. There is much compelling evidence to the contrary.

So which should I believe? Some presumptuous kook on the Internet, or
the compelling evidence that the universe has revealed to me via human
research?

Poetnartist wote:
“You're not leaving your zone, and at least I walked with you on your
road, even if deciding it wasn't right. You took one look at mine and
turned your back.”

I’m not in a zone to leave. Other than the fact that I have chosen to
ask the universe how things are rather than to ask presumptuous people
who have unsubstantiated subjective opinions.

I have actually considered the subjective opinions that you are
preaching. You are not the first person to believe to the way you do,
nor will you be the last unfortunately. So I have been down the road
that you are on quite extensively only to recognize that it’s a dead
end.

I’ve decided to leave that narrow-minded path and instead ask the actual
universe how things really are. I’ve found this to be much more
enlightening and rewarding. Instead of guessing what reality is like I
can actually ask it directly.

I have no preconceived notions concerning the answers. Whatever the
universe tells me about itself I accept. I’m not about to call the
universe a liar. After all, the universe is ultimately the world I
live in and this is what I’m trying to discover the true nature of.

To ignore the universe and instead spend my entirely life arguing my own
personal subjective opinions from a box is simply not inviting to me at
all. But if that’s where you want to be then so be it.

I think you would do well to realize that this is indeed what you are
doing. It would save you a lot of grief. What you are doing is arguing
your own personal subjective opinions and expecting other people to be
convinced of them in the face of contradictory evidence given by the
actual universe?

Who should they believe? The universe, or you?

Your refusal to believe your in a box is your box. You refuse to accept
that rejecting dogma is dogma unto itself.

And your tendency to insult those who do hold to a belief system makes
you just like any other narrow-minded fundamentalist in history.

Key words in my previous post, that you may have missed, Poet.

My beliefs are mine, yours are yours, they differ...big deal.. Back up
your beliefs, YOURS, and allow others theirs, and for them to do the
same, and we have a dialogue..


......"ALLOW others' theirs"..

With the mindset of attack, and ridicule, and condemn, and seek
justifaction, as to who is intrinsically 'Right" and who is "Wrong"...by
your own set of values...is not debating.

AGAIN, you are Right for you, others are Right for them...

I don't see the word Wrong in there, do you?

The only insult I have seen through this entire thread is you
telling people that they insult you. If it is an insult to you
that we have a different opinion, so be it.
I, however don't see an insult in having a different opinion
and to state it freely.
Poet, it is time to get a grip on yourself.

Hey, I'm not the one who started the name-calling. Nor are you,
actually. But you participated, at least.

Calling people narrow minded because they disagree with you IS an
insult. At least in my book. If someone was calling you blind and
ignorant, would you not consider it insulting? But, of course, since you
disagree with my opinions on this subject, you'll side with them when
they insult me.

Humanity is one of the lowest forms of life.

It is the only one that starts wars for possessions

It is the only one that cannot live in peaceful coexistance with other
species.

We are the only one that has to use a superior being to subjugate the
masses

Just because we have found ways to use tools, does not mean we have
evolved into higher life forms.

On the contrary. We abuse our power to the detriment of the planet.

We use words and language to express ideas, emotions and concepts, but
then never look at the big picture.

We are not top of the food chain by any means.

If stating in fact is an insult then I should be insulted constantly by
things people tell me about me.
voileazur held a mirror into your face earlier on, only you refused to
see the picture in it.
It is hopeless to say anything to you, one might as well talk
to a brick wall