Topic: Moral Conundrum
Britty's photo
Tue 01/13/09 12:20 PM

Does everyone have the same morality? No, of course not.

Morality is a code of conduct, morality dictates how one behaves. And although each individual will usually obey their own morality, they will sometimes deviate from it.

The issue of Right and Wrong is different from Morality. Observation of other cultures and people will show us that everyone has a different morality, but their morality reveals that we all have the same perception of what is Right and Wrong.

An example: Terrorists who capture Americans will torture, rape, murder and mutilate their bodies. But they demand that the same not be done to them. Their belief that they should be treated "fairly" clearly shows that they know right from wrong and demand to be treated right. Based on their religion or society pressures, they will treat others wrongly, but they are acutely aware of the right way to behave.

CS Lewis calls this the "Law of Nature", mankind's instinctual understanding of Right from Wrong and desire to be treat Right (even when they don't do the same to others).


It looks like you are doing a lot of C S Lewis reading lately spider.

flowerforyou

no photo
Tue 01/13/09 12:44 PM


Does everyone have the same morality? No, of course not.

Morality is a code of conduct, morality dictates how one behaves. And although each individual will usually obey their own morality, they will sometimes deviate from it.

The issue of Right and Wrong is different from Morality. Observation of other cultures and people will show us that everyone has a different morality, but their morality reveals that we all have the same perception of what is Right and Wrong.

An example: Terrorists who capture Americans will torture, rape, murder and mutilate their bodies. But they demand that the same not be done to them. Their belief that they should be treated "fairly" clearly shows that they know right from wrong and demand to be treated right. Based on their religion or society pressures, they will treat others wrongly, but they are acutely aware of the right way to behave.

CS Lewis calls this the "Law of Nature", mankind's instinctual understanding of Right from Wrong and desire to be treat Right (even when they don't do the same to others).


It looks like you are doing a lot of C S Lewis reading lately spider.

flowerforyou


Just a bit... blushing

I don't think I could hold C S Lewis in higher esteem. He was a remarkable man with an incredible insight into Christianity and reality.

Britty's photo
Tue 01/13/09 12:50 PM



Does everyone have the same morality? No, of course not.

Morality is a code of conduct, morality dictates how one behaves. And although each individual will usually obey their own morality, they will sometimes deviate from it.

The issue of Right and Wrong is different from Morality. Observation of other cultures and people will show us that everyone has a different morality, but their morality reveals that we all have the same perception of what is Right and Wrong.

An example: Terrorists who capture Americans will torture, rape, murder and mutilate their bodies. But they demand that the same not be done to them. Their belief that they should be treated "fairly" clearly shows that they know right from wrong and demand to be treated right. Based on their religion or society pressures, they will treat others wrongly, but they are acutely aware of the right way to behave.

CS Lewis calls this the "Law of Nature", mankind's instinctual understanding of Right from Wrong and desire to be treat Right (even when they don't do the same to others).


It looks like you are doing a lot of C S Lewis reading lately spider.

flowerforyou


Just a bit... blushing

I don't think I could hold C S Lewis in higher esteem. He was a remarkable man with an incredible insight into Christianity and reality.


He sure was.

flowerforyou


Quikstepper's photo
Tue 01/13/09 05:58 PM

Okay, what I’m just asking of spider is if he thinks that everyone has the same morals.

While I don’t disagree that we have similar morals, I would debate any two people having the exact same moral beliefs. Second, I don’t think that I’m better than anyone, I hope I don’t come across that way. In fact, I believe this whole challenge with lust and desire I’m having is meant to humble me and show me I don’t have as much control over my sin as I thought or would like to have. And when I say I don’t want to ask for forgiveness, what I’m saying is, I want to actively push sin away and not sin as much so I don’t have to ask for as much forgiveness as I would if I were complacent. I think that trying to stop myself from sinning or actively sinning less would make God happy. Is my faith incorrect in thinking that? By faith I mean my personal belief, not my church. Also, in what ways do you feel I need to grow spiritually? I’m curious so I can better look at those areas and perhaps fix them.
I’m well aware that the what the world holds as true is often sin, I’ve been aware of that for quite some time. That is exactly why I kill myself to the world on a daily basis. I’m just struggling with this addiction. I feel that dying to the world is an important part of faith.



Moral...law... it's all pretty much black & white. Then there is our flesh that we fight daily in order to reach higher & aspire to those things which God prepared for us. We are all suseptable to that drag. Instead of fighting it we need to release it to God. I don't know about you but I'm ready to give up the fight & let God do His thing. It's so much easier. :smile:

Britty's photo
Tue 01/13/09 06:00 PM

If I can find out if the thing is wrong, I'll be more apt to stop it, this finding a way to satisfy urges will be null and void. Second, going ahead and sinning. Just because my Lord died for my sin, doesn't give me a pass to do it everything. Being as good as I can is the only way to start to repay my Lord for his sacrifice

…And finally,it being wrong if it feels wrong to my beliefs. This is, if anything, the core of my dilemma. I don't know if it feels write or wrong, I'm conflicted.



I consider myself a devout Methodist, with the exception of this little moral excursion. However, the general beliefs that abortion is wrong, among Christians is different with me. I think women should have the right to choose and be responsible for that decision, rather than a government imposed choice. The same goes for gay mirage. Jesus told us to be accepting of other people, and I don't think denying people that right is very accepting. .



"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,….”

i. The spiritual infant is concerned with self rather than service.

ii. The spiritual infant is concerned with argument rather than action.

iii. The spiritual infant looks to people rather than the Master.

It appears you are saying you do not know if it is right or wrong (according to your beliefs). You know you should refer to the Scripture as another poster suggested, but it appears you are trying to justify not being able to do that because of the fact that other Christian denominations may interpret scripture in different ways, so how can you know if it is right or wrong? It appears tha you may be looking to find some ‘wiggle room’.

In fact, I believe this whole challenge with lust and desire I’m having is meant to humble me and show me I don’t have as much control over my sin as I thought or would like to have. And when I say I don’t want to ask for forgiveness…


Yes, I think you are correct here, that is part of spiritual growth.




Britty's photo
Tue 01/13/09 06:15 PM


oops

I almost forgot..


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FenemRespice's photo
Tue 01/13/09 08:44 PM
Well, about two day's ago, I'd come to the conclusion that this thing is wrong, completely, and I need to initiate some serious emotional restriction, which I have, and deal with this situation. Also, I don't understand how you can agree that people have different morals, yet posses the same views of right and wrong. Don't morals determine what you see as write and wrong? Okay, the terrorists who rape and kill people that are not their own, but demand fairness for their people, I just see that as hypocritical. The only ultimate right and wrongs that I can relay think of, for me personally, is loving God with all my heart, mind, body, and soul and loving my neighbor as myself. But even that is different from person to person. Perhaps if you told me some of the rights and wrongs that are universal, I could see where you're coming from. Let's face it, I'm thick when it comes to this subject, I just can't see a universal set of right and wrongs that everyone can hold true.

no photo
Tue 01/13/09 08:50 PM

Well, about two day's ago, I'd come to the conclusion that this thing is wrong, completely, and I need to initiate some serious emotional restriction, which I have, and deal with this situation. Also, I don't understand how you can agree that people have different morals, yet posses the same views of right and wrong. Don't morals determine what you see as write and wrong? Okay, the terrorists who rape and kill people that are not their own, but demand fairness for their people, I just see that as hypocritical. The only ultimate right and wrongs that I can relay think of, for me personally, is loving God with all my heart, mind, body, and soul and loving my neighbor as myself. But even that is different from person to person. Perhaps if you told me some of the rights and wrongs that are universal, I could see where you're coming from. Let's face it, I'm thick when it comes to this subject, I just can't see a universal set of right and wrongs that everyone can hold true.


You really need to read Mere Christianity.

http://www.philosophyforlife.com/mctoc.htm

You already know right and wrong, you don't need me to explain it to you.

It's wrong to kill.

It's wrong to steal.

It's wrong to lie.

Etc.

Right and Wrong are the underlying law, the absolute laws of human nature. Morality is how you apply Right and Wrong (the Law of Nature) in your life.

FenemRespice's photo
Tue 01/13/09 08:56 PM
very very true, and that is what I consider write and wrong, but that is not necessarily true for everyone. I mean, I feel it's wrong to kill, unless in self defense, where as Jihadists feel it is right to kill those not of their faith. I consider that a prety big difference in right and wrong.

Britty's photo
Wed 01/14/09 02:58 AM


I am not sure if they really feel it is right, but certainly they justify it in that manner.

I think the fact that they will not kill one another, unless they can justify that, indicates they know it is wrong to kill.

What bearing does that have on your 'moral excursion' as you refer to it?

FenemRespice's photo
Wed 01/14/09 06:53 AM
It has to do with the sub-topic debate of weather or not there is a universal right and wrong, like, my reasons for the acceptable killing of another human is different from a Jehadist. In my opinion that shifts the write and wrong to a different place. but that's just my feelings on right and wrong.

TBRich's photo
Wed 01/14/09 07:51 AM
I know a lot of people with STDs, even HIV who are out there having unprotected . It is stupid and wrong, because it hurts others, like any addiction does. son't try to rationalize this thing. It hurts people's health and emotions.

FenemRespice's photo
Wed 01/14/09 11:06 AM
Rationalize what exactly, and how are you comparing me rationalizing emotions, something that's very logical and has yet to steer me wrong, to unprotected sex with HIV? Besides, rationalizing it is what led me to how wrong this addiction is. I should have started rationalizing this from the beginning.

no photo
Fri 01/16/09 09:48 AM

It has to do with the sub-topic debate of weather or not there is a universal right and wrong, like, my reasons for the acceptable killing of another human is different from a Jehadist. In my opinion that shifts the write and wrong to a different place. but that's just my feelings on right and wrong.


Different people and societies will justify doing things which they know are wrong, but that doesn't mean their basic definition of right and wrong changes. If Jihadists believed that killing was right, then why wouldn't they just kill each other? Would they want another Jihadist punished for killing another Jihadist's family? Of course. Every society has shown to have exactly the same idea of what is right and wrong, but they will justify not doing the right thing under different situations.

AllenAqua's photo
Fri 01/16/09 12:31 PM
The Ten Commandments handed down to Moses are God's laws...Even though they don't all conform to man's law, all the same they spell out in precise detail what God expects from his people. One cannot break God's laws, one can only break one's self against the laws. Morality is not subjective to anyone who respects God's law...

FenemRespice's photo
Sun 01/18/09 07:41 PM
While the ten commandments are an excellent start, that is still part of the old law. Jesus, in affect, replaced that with his two great Commandments of 'Love thy lord your God with all you're heart mind and soul,' and 'Love thy neighbor as thy self'. At least, that's how I see it.

AllenAqua's photo
Sun 01/18/09 08:24 PM
The Ten Commandments constitute a spiritual law that is inexorable and eternal—a law that is love and the fulfillment of which is love (Romans 13:10). The essence of God's spiritual law is love toward God and love toward fellowman (Matthew 22:36-40). The first four of the Ten Commandments teach us how to love God. And the last six teach us how to love our
fellowman.


Drago01's photo
Sun 01/18/09 08:34 PM
Edited by Drago01 on Sun 01/18/09 08:37 PM

This is where I am, I’m a Methodist, I’m affirmed to my faith, and fully accept Jesus as my lord and savior and I’m not afraid to tell that to anyone. This in mind, I realize that morality and right or wrong are completely confined to the perception of each and every person. By popular opinion, since that is scientifically applicable as a valid result (through probability) I pose my question: Is being addicted to love, passion, lust, and pleasure, wrong? Chemically speaking, with the acceptation of love, they all have similar reactions that drugs do. I’m finding that they are just as addictive as any drug I’ve heard about, hence my predicament. With my own mind being torn between the two possibilities, my moral perception has been compromised. So I pose it to you, the reader, please respond.

Frankly I think you are too introspective for Nineteen. Especially for posting on a dating site, but then this site is way more than just a dating site. Why not just live a little and let your more natural instincts have a chance. You might find it alot easier to make your decisions once you have experienced life a little more. Are you afraid to make a mistake? Is having committed a sin so awfully difficult to cope with that you might consider living in some kind of Shell or Bubble your whole life? Just a few questions.

Britty's photo
Mon 01/19/09 04:35 AM

While the ten commandments are an excellent start, that is still part of the old law. Jesus, in affect, replaced that with his two great Commandments of 'Love thy lord your God with all you're heart mind and soul,' and 'Love thy neighbor as thy self'. At least, that's how I see it.


He fulfilled the law, rather than replaced.
Basically as Allen explained.

Good advice from Drago01. Welcome here.

flowerforyou

Drago01's photo
Mon 01/19/09 07:30 PM
Thanks Britty. Feels good.