There are some on here who post with a single-mindedness. Everything they say and do are directed at that ulterior motive. They make alliances in hopes of gaining that objective they seek and only for that purpose. They ally with atheists, illegal immigrants, and during the elections tried to make comparisons between their cause and that of Black American slaves.
They cant accept that they lost, have and will spend billions of dollars to try to over-ride the majority rules concept our country was founded on. They preach individual rights and then want Federal laws enacted to enable their cause!

Yes, that one is good, Fanta!

God be my witness, how many times I've heard from supposedly pro-freedom conversation partner, that what he/she really wants if for the Federales to enforce his/her wish on everybody else.

Pathetic...

NoGame, you're correct about one thing but wrong about another.

First of all the wrong. The U.S. Constitution takes on the responsibility of what determines equality. In it's original form, the determinants are broadly stated and must be clarified as our society 'evolves'.

Cultural norms and expectations change and with that change it may be perceived that Constitutional human rights have been impaired. It is only at the Federal level that such hindrances can be effectively addressed.

Now for the right - it is absolutely more conceivable to win certain rights at the state level, whenever the issues involve changing a current cultural norm.

There is strategy in fighting the battle state by state. It is to gain recognition, to stay in the news, to be in the public eye. Fight and win enough battles at the state level and the tide of cultural norms will change. Eventually the majority will accept the change and Federal law will be possible.

In 1961 Illinois was the first U.S. State to repeal its antisodomey law. In 1974 The American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality off its list of mental disorders. In 1981, San Franciso passed the nation’s first domestic partnership bill. And in the twenty-eight years since there is no state that has not dealt with homosexual legalities. You see, the tide is changing and our culture is accepting that change.

As I said, there is strategy in fighting some things state by state, but ultimate inclusion under the U.S. Constitution is the goal – it’s a human rights goal and it belongs at the Federal level.

I do agree with you, however, that the best government is the least invasive, and restrictive form - just not when it comes to human rights.

She isn't talking about fighting state by state. She said that
because Ron Paul wasn't necessarily dictating the pro-choice
point of view to all states, therefore he wasn't popular with her.

In my opinion, it is precisely by leaving it to the states
first, that pro-choice movements battles state-by-state become possible.

What does this has to do with US Constitution? Does it prohibit abortions?

Nor is Redy!
She wants the Feds to legalize gay marriage across the whole country despite the wishes of the majority!

After the GLBT community has spent billions and the laws cant be passed even in Calif. (The most liberal State in America) She wants a constitutional amendment so that it can be forced upon all of America!

I kind of understand both. I've been thinking about this dilema for some time.
And what I have realized is this:

My ultimate dream would be 100 more small independent countries
that are 100 times smaller, rather than few huge gigantic nations.

That way, anyone can find a nation that suits him just right. And if you need to run, there is going to be a whole world to consider.

First of all I am gay, I got pregnant from an insensitive guy that couldn't take no for an answer. A guy that you would never suspect was anything but a gentle men until his first opportunity to outside the public view.

I should give up my job and my friends and family and home to move to a state that has those rights? I was very young at the time and tended to trust people, even men, when I should have known better. Ok that was stupid... I should have every second of the day be on the look out for an a$$hole...

Now for gay marriage it's the same, leave it to the states to decide, so that in one state I am legal and in another I am not. Leaves us with lots of choices doesn't it.

Lets pretend we give a hoot, lets leave it to the states. knowing we don't have a chance in hell with most states.

I don't know how the hell we are going to fix our world, we don't even like or respect eachother, must less want to give eachother the same things we might enjoy every day by law.

"This might be my personal problem, but I just don't
like anyone who forces their will onto others. That includes you."

You know, I agree.. I don't like the church ( Christian people ) deciding that I can not marry the person I love with all my heart. I don't like when people force their will on others, and that includes you.. See what I mean, it goes both ways.. it's a raw deal for all.

I don't want the church christian people telling me I have no say so over my own body.. either way it always goes back to the church despite that fact that we have seperation of church and state.

Before I am accused of whining I will just end it here.....

I cant stand the concept that the majority rules the minority, its something i personally refer to as King Kong Syndrome. I personally belive in the power of self, Let everyone choose the right way to live there lives the best way they see fit, and that has nothing to do with the majority.

"The ideally non-violent state will be an ordered anarchy. That State is the best governed which is governed the least"---Gandhi

No problem. Just make a different lifestyle choice and quit trying to force the one you made upon the rest of the country!

when you put it that way Fanta, it does sound rather pushy, but it's not that simple. And it's not like this started a few days ago. It's been decades and decades. I am just unable to explain it very well.

But don't worry I doubt very much that the rest of america will ever have to share in the joy of marriage with those of us that are different. So I wouldn't worry to much that the Right will run out of tricks to keep us buried in legal stuff for many many years to come.

As I have said it's a raw deal for both sides but we can bet that it won't be us that wins, that should make most folks feel better.

I am all for folks feeling better...

Good for you sweety!
I personally dont care what others do in their personal life. I just dont think it should be forced upon all of us.

Yupe there's that men I remember, the ones that condescendingly call you sweety, when they don't like what you have to say. Your right, you personally don't care, that is quite obvious, because it doesn't affect you personally does it...

I don't see anyone forcing you to be gay Fanta, but then I am talking to some one that just doesn't care, period, so I am very much wasting my time.

You're gay and you did give to some insensitive guy? That's like me being a straight guy, but....hey ... letting some insensitive dude to do his thing to me.....

I am scared to even think about this. Shuddering.


I don't know. I am guessing I am ain't that tough as you are...




Anyway, where you say that you shouldn't have to leave your state simply because the state doesn't allow abortions, you are hitting on the rub.

The rub is, there is no way around it, you will have to make a choice. Everybody does. We select those things that are important to us. In your case, the abortion and the risk of death is less important than family convenience.

I understand.

It's not like I hadn't made any mistakes. I am sorry for being rude to you in another post. It was strictly with regards to our subject here.

I let him do it? Where did you get that? I said I was gay, the man knew I was gay, I thought I could trust him..

I wouldn't wish rape on anyone by a man or woman. I think you have not put 2 and 2 together here, but there isn't much sense in discussing this with you.

I understand your point of view, I have been aware of what the majority will tolerate and what they won't for over 40 years. It's not like I am expecting anything really. I didn't give money to the cause, I didn't march in protests, so you really have no issue with me. I never expected anything from the majority, I can only voice what I might like to see, but never expect to see it.

It might irritate you that I voice my concerns, and you choose to think I am twisting the meaning of freedom, but hey what is freedom when only you are allowed to have that freedom?

I am not sure I can answer that, maybe you can't either. Either way I don't want to fight...

Don't need to. I was wrong since I thought you meant you gave your friend what he wanted.

Rape sucks, and I am totally on your side. No one should be subjected to it.

...no one...I don't know... may-be hitlery...

No harm done, Nogames. The thought of anyone violating any human being like that is certainly disgusting, as well it should be.

Well guys I hope the new year is better than you and I both expect. I have learned to accept what I have despite the fact that I too would like some things to change for me as well. Hopefully some of us will get what we wish for.

Yes. And hopefully some don't.

(Those who aren't careful with their wishes...)

Well I am pretty sure I won't, by the looks of things here. LOL

I'm even careful of my wishes and I am quite sure I won't get them.